Upgrading Engine Ideas
08-12-2008, 01:19 AM
#21
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I am finding out first hand that the Mag MPI intake on these really can't make power. We went through mine last fall using Tyler Crockett's cam and valve train, .030 over, 9.5:1, RHS Aluminum heads, and we made 501hp on the dyno. The power flattened out at 5200 rpm and that was all the intake could do. I am most likely going to switch to a single plane intake efi system like the Edelbrock Victor Jr setup that uses a 1000 cfm throttle body and port injectors. I'm also thinking about building a new 555 CI short block to go with it if I can sneak it under the wife's radar!
Short answer is the stock intake pretty much sucks. A nice single plane with a carb would be better for making power hands down.
Short answer is the stock intake pretty much sucks. A nice single plane with a carb would be better for making power hands down.
08-12-2008, 07:31 AM
#22
People make many mistakes on engine builds and upgrades. The biggest one is not being in close consult with someone who has done it many times with the type of boats we deal with here. I know several exceptionally accomplished racing engine builders- and not one of them has a grasp of how to make a boat go fast- because they've never done it. Boats are too different from race cars for those experiences to transfer.
Well said.
08-12-2008, 08:18 AM
#23
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[QUOTE=Chris Sunkin;2651101]
Great post. I am currently talking with Steve Schmidt Competition Engines out of Indianapolis, IN. They seem very responsive to my project. It appears they have a great reputation for building drag racing engines. They also sell marine performance engines and upgrade existing powerplants. They sent a competitive quote for a comprehensive rebuild on our motor. Bored to 467 cu. in. with new pistons, rods, rings, bearings, cam, intake manifold with porting, 950cfm carb, MSD ignition, valve job, mill & C.C., head porting running close to 600HP on premium fuel. What do you guys think? Anyone have any experience with these guys. They seem professional on the phone.
[Are you saying that a reliable marine engine can't be built with solid roller lifters? )
I said exactly what I meant- solid roller profiles have a more aggressive ramp profile and they're harder on valvetrain componentry. Simple physics. The faster and the farther you make something move, the more force required. Weight (mass) definitely comes into play here.
Sorry I feel this was directed at me, are you saying that with my near 600HP I will have troubles getting my boat on plane??.
Again, I said what I said. I used an example of a high RPM , high horsepower motor and how it wouldn't be particularly useful in an offshore boat. Peak horsepower at the sacrifice of a broad powerband has many unpleasant tradeoffs- nothing to do with you or your setup.
Did anyone mention Mercruiser manifolds? He stated in his first post that he had upgraded his exhaust.
Again, making a point that peak horsepower and dyno sheets mean little when bolyed into the boat. Dyno'ing a motor without the exhaust you'll be using in the boat is less than useful. As I mentioned, his exhaust is one of the better one's, but his engines won't make the same power as they do with dyno headers.
People make many mistakes on engine builds and upgrades. The biggest one is not being in close consult with someone who has done it many times with the type of boats we deal with here. I know several exceptionally accomplished racing engine builders- and not one of them has a grasp of how to make a boat go fast- because they've never done it. Boats are too different from race cars for those experiences to transfer.
I said exactly what I meant- solid roller profiles have a more aggressive ramp profile and they're harder on valvetrain componentry. Simple physics. The faster and the farther you make something move, the more force required. Weight (mass) definitely comes into play here.
Sorry I feel this was directed at me, are you saying that with my near 600HP I will have troubles getting my boat on plane??.
Again, I said what I said. I used an example of a high RPM , high horsepower motor and how it wouldn't be particularly useful in an offshore boat. Peak horsepower at the sacrifice of a broad powerband has many unpleasant tradeoffs- nothing to do with you or your setup.
Did anyone mention Mercruiser manifolds? He stated in his first post that he had upgraded his exhaust.
Again, making a point that peak horsepower and dyno sheets mean little when bolyed into the boat. Dyno'ing a motor without the exhaust you'll be using in the boat is less than useful. As I mentioned, his exhaust is one of the better one's, but his engines won't make the same power as they do with dyno headers.
People make many mistakes on engine builds and upgrades. The biggest one is not being in close consult with someone who has done it many times with the type of boats we deal with here. I know several exceptionally accomplished racing engine builders- and not one of them has a grasp of how to make a boat go fast- because they've never done it. Boats are too different from race cars for those experiences to transfer.
08-12-2008, 09:46 AM
#24
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[QUOTE=RJBBC;2651266]
Great post. I am currently talking with Steve Schmidt Competition Engines out of Indianapolis, IN. They seem very responsive to my project. It appears they have a great reputation for building drag racing engines. They also sell marine performance engines and upgrade existing powerplants. They sent a competitive quote for a comprehensive rebuild on our motor. Bored to 467 cu. in. with new pistons, rods, rings, bearings, cam, intake manifold with porting, 950cfm carb, MSD ignition, valve job, mill & C.C., head porting running close to 600HP on premium fuel. What do you guys think? Anyone have any experience with these guys. They seem professional on the phone.
Never heard of them. Make sure you get references. Remember, Baker sounded very professional on the phone too and sold Pratt a bill of goods that they never delivered on. Well over a year later and he is still trying to dial his 454's in.
Great post. I am currently talking with Steve Schmidt Competition Engines out of Indianapolis, IN. They seem very responsive to my project. It appears they have a great reputation for building drag racing engines. They also sell marine performance engines and upgrade existing powerplants. They sent a competitive quote for a comprehensive rebuild on our motor. Bored to 467 cu. in. with new pistons, rods, rings, bearings, cam, intake manifold with porting, 950cfm carb, MSD ignition, valve job, mill & C.C., head porting running close to 600HP on premium fuel. What do you guys think? Anyone have any experience with these guys. They seem professional on the phone.
08-12-2008, 07:53 PM
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[QUOTE=Knot 4 Me;2651355]
Good point. I think I found the option I will take. ATECO Industries has a NA 540 with 600HP (5600 RPM) and 650 lbs./tq (4100 RPM) for 13K. The motor comes with a 2 year warranty. Bill has spent over an hour on the phone with me. I like the package and think it is a good fit. Anyone here on the forum ever deal with ATECO? I still have plenty of time to think about it. I am bagging the 2008 boating season. Thanks again for all of the insight.
Rob
Rob
08-13-2008, 09:10 AM
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Here are the specifications on the 600HP 540. Gen VI Block, 4.5 Bore, 9.8 Deck Height, 1 pc Rear Main Seal, Crank-SCAT 4340 Forged, Internally Balanced, 4.25 Stroke Rods-4340 H Beam, 6.385 w/ 7/16 ARP Caps Bolts, Pistons-JE Forged Aluminum 9 to 1 compression, Rings-single molly, Cam-ISKY hydraulic roller .578/.608 lift, 238deg//248deg duration @ .050, Intake-Single Plane, Cylinder Heads-BBC Aluminum 320 CC, 2.25 Stainless Intake, 1.89 Inconel exhaust, Rocker Arms-Scorpion Full Roller, Oil Pan-Canton 10qt.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
08-13-2008, 09:53 AM
#27
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RJ,
For what its worth, "Triple Digits" on this site has a 600+ Horse small block Schmidt engine in his boat. I've been in his boat at and it rocks!
I'm not sure, but I think Schmidt also warranties his engines even if racing. I would compare Schmidt's warranty with others. Good luck. Let us know what your choice was/is.
www.Steveschmidtracing.com
For what its worth, "Triple Digits" on this site has a 600+ Horse small block Schmidt engine in his boat. I've been in his boat at and it rocks!
I'm not sure, but I think Schmidt also warranties his engines even if racing. I would compare Schmidt's warranty with others. Good luck. Let us know what your choice was/is.
www.Steveschmidtracing.com
Last edited by Fast Shafts; 08-13-2008 at 10:15 AM.
08-13-2008, 10:19 AM
#28
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[QUOTE=RJBBC;2652088]
Good point. I think I found the option I will take. ATECO Industries has a NA 540 with 600HP (5600 RPM) and 650 lbs./tq (4100 RPM) for 13K. The motor comes with a 2 year warranty. Bill has spent over an hour on the phone with me. I like the package and think it is a good fit. Anyone here on the forum ever deal with ATECO? I still have plenty of time to think about it. I am bagging the 2008 boating season. Thanks again for all of the insight.
Rob
Hey, there are plenty of boats on Dock 3 to hop on. Bud Friday this Friday. Come on down!
600HP 540, eh? Bye bye standard Bravo!!
Good point. I think I found the option I will take. ATECO Industries has a NA 540 with 600HP (5600 RPM) and 650 lbs./tq (4100 RPM) for 13K. The motor comes with a 2 year warranty. Bill has spent over an hour on the phone with me. I like the package and think it is a good fit. Anyone here on the forum ever deal with ATECO? I still have plenty of time to think about it. I am bagging the 2008 boating season. Thanks again for all of the insight.
Rob
600HP 540, eh? Bye bye standard Bravo!!
08-13-2008, 04:43 PM
#29
Do yourself a giant favor and call Frank aka "10x" he is pretty well known out of Chicago with many of the offshore boaters and has the inside scoop of what is what and who is who with true hi-perf marine engines. I would contact him and ask who he recommends. He and several others have been through a TON OF GRIEF over there in Chicago with marine hi-perf engines. Before you make a decision I would call/talk to Frank. You will find him in the Chicago Powerboat Club section here on OSO.
Just a word to the wise....the last thing you want is finding out the guy/shop you chose to do your engines ended up being a disaster and a ton of grief!
Just a word to the wise....the last thing you want is finding out the guy/shop you chose to do your engines ended up being a disaster and a ton of grief!
08-14-2008, 06:28 AM
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[QUOTE=Knot 4 Me;2652603]Beadman, I am all over the board with a plan. I am not sure what we are going to do. The only thing that I am sure about right now is repowering the Checkmate! How much power or how to achieve it is up in the air. Will be driving to Destin on Friday for family vacation. I would like to make at least one Bud Friday this year, thanks for the invite anyway.
