ragtp66

I am working with a 330hp/454 alpha one combo with a mechanical fuel pump. I went to remove the pump and the spring that normally would be found under the actuator arm was gone.It was nowhere in the bilge so I assume that it when down the oil return hole in the fuel pump cavity. For an idea of what spring I am referring to click this link »http://www.428cobrajet.org/how-to-fuel-pump.html« and look under step 5 That is the spring I am referring to. Problem is how to retrieve it. ANY suggestions short of pulling the motor and dropping the pan would be greatly appreciated. My only thought was to take a large STRONG magnet and sweep it back and forth over the bottom of the pan after puling the drain plug and seeing if i could fish it out with some mechanics wire or needle nose pliers or something. Does anyone know for sure as I don't have another BBC block without an oil pan on it to investigate if indeed the spring fell down into the hole in the fuel pump boss would it drop directly into the oil pan or is there a bend or turn or something it would have to make? I appreciate any and all help/suggestions

getrdunn

iTrader: (7)

this is a mark 1V block right? the only way i see the spring going down through the block is if it went in pieces. in which case if you ran it this way it may or may not have done any other damage. that oil galley is about 11/32 to 3/8. directly below the hole (galley) is the counter weight on the crank. i would say chances are it is laying in the pan. the magnet idea is real doubtful unless its one i have never seen. are you planning a rebuild any time soon or over the winter? is the boat on a trailer? you could pull the bilge plug and the drain plug and see what comes out and you may find some pieces attached to the magnetic drain plug. after it drains pour an extra few quarts in to try and flush out any remains. this may at least determine your next move. pulling the engine would certainly be the best thing to do unless you determine something else. how many hours do you have on the engine?

hopefully someone else has an explanation or maybe a better idea of how to approach this. running it without finding your spring could be bad although i have pulled more than a couple of pans and found all kinds of parts and pieces with out much other signs of damage.

good luck and keep us posted.

john

ragtp66

Yes it is a gen IV block all stock in an 87 Sea Ray Pachanga with about 325 hours on it. I was not planning on rebuilding or pulling the motor if I did not have to. I could drop the pan without pulling it I suppose but I am 6'3 so I would need to be a bit of a contortion artist to be able to do it. I was thinking a STRONG magnet and try to run it along the bottom of the pan towards the drain plug figuring the spring is round so it should roll as the magnet is dragged across the bottom of the pan. I also have a really skinny magnet on a flexible shaft that is about 2 ft long but only about the size of a bic pen around that would easily fit inside once the drain plug is removed. If I only had one of these: http://www.sasrad.com/products/tire_...fiberscope.php things would be a breeze. Any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated.

ljsmith1

I wouldn't worry about it. The parts are heavy enough to stay at the bottom of the pan and won't get sucked into the oil pump due to the pickup screen. It certainly won't block oil flow to cause a problem. The viscosity of the oil (even when hot) is enough to keep parts like this from bouncing around like they are in a glasss of water.

Put a new fuel pump in and get back to boating. Take it out when you get time for a rebuild.

Seriously, I would do this if it was my boat (and I have a 1987 Mag Alpha stock motor with 487 hours). I have had three cappuchino maker incidents, hydro locked it, and one misfire run, and I still have 120-130psi compression, 50psi oil pressure, and very little oil consumption - all on the stock short block.

rich allen

[QUOTE=ljsmith1;2936555]I wouldn't worry about it. The parts are heavy enough to stay at the bottom of the pan and won't get sucked into the oil pump due to the pickup screen. It certainly won't block oil flow to cause a problem. The viscosity of the oil (even when hot) is enough to keep parts like this from bouncing around like they are in a glasss of water.

Put a new fuel pump in and get back to boating. Take it out when you get time for a rebuild.


What he said...

But, to feel better, you could leave that magnet, plus another one if you like, attached to bottom of pan, which may collect the pieces if in fact it broke apart.

dogturd21

or perhaps add a magnetic drain plug ? I had a hose fitted to my pan for easier oil changes so this might not be practical.

Intereresting to note that 3 people chimed in to say they had a 454/330 combo with a Alpha 1. I too had a 454/330 with a Alpha SS, which lasted 1600 hours until I swapped with a 454/420 engine. That was 200 hours ago, still running strong, but I dont hammer it hard off the line.

getrdunn

iTrader: (7)

after looking at the spring size i can see how it could easily drop through whole however how it came off the pump without exploding i don't know. i have never heard of this before.
did you drain your oil yet?

ljsmith1

One last thought....If you want extra insurance, just buy a 2" or 3" disc or square magnet and stick it on the bottom of your oil pan (on the outside). This will certainly keep any metal parts from bouncing around.

ragtp66

Updating post. Finally was able to get the new fuel pump put on and then the fun begins. So I tried to get the oil plug out and even with a 12" breaker bar I cannot get it to budge KING KONG must have tightened it last. So I decided to just roll the dice and put the pump on and get it back running. I installed the pump tried to start it up and now its running RICH so now I am a bit confused during the last trip out prior to the fuel pump going out the boat ran like a champ idled near 600, no smells, nothing at all. Then I remembered when the pump was acting up I had pulled the ignition coil wire out to make sure that was not all corroded and I found it wet inside. At the time I thought it was water but thought it was a little odd as the wires are fairly new and are a tight fit at that time I just blew it out dried it and put it back together. This time I pull the coil wire off again and its full of what I thought was water but after touching it quickly figured out it was a clear oil so I figured the coil was smoked. I went and bought another Mercruiser coil and fresh set of plugs (the plugs when I pulled them were sure enough fouled out). After firing it up and running for a about 3-4 minutes on the hose it starts loading up again and pretty soon you can see black smoke not heavy but definitely there from the exhaust and it starts to stumble a bit so I figure its staring to load up again..by now I am really getting frustrated. I mean REALLY how much more can crap out all at once?? at a point it stalled and when it did I looked at the carb and saw fuel dripping from both the primary and secondary throttle shafts on both sides down onto the intake (stock rochester 4bl) SO now I am REALLY getting PISSED It had NEVER done anything like this before. So I am not really sure what would have caused this my only thought was the float stuck open or the needle got stuck. I let it sit for a bit and tried restarting it and it did fire up and I did not see anymore fuel leaking from the carb but it still runs like crap. I am a little bit at a loss for where to go next? Time for a carb rebuild??~~possible since I have owned the boat now 4 seasons and I have never done it and who knows when, if ever, it was done prior, however, I feel it's just tooo wierd that its like a domino effect here that one simple fuel pump failure turns into this never-ending cycle of bad luck. As for the spring in the oil pan at this point I just decided to replace the oil pan over the winter as it definitely could use one as it has quite a few spots of surface rust here and there and besides I cannot get that damn drain plug loose to save my life. For the last season or two I have had a constant slow drip of oil coming from the remote oil filter adapter housing so I figured I would tackle both of those projects at the same time. Anyone have any advise on the running rich problem? This has been an VERY VERY VERY frustrating season for me I have only had the boat in the water 3 x's this season and have had this avalanche of problems on top of spending $2500.00 already to replace my gimbal ring, bellows, shift cables etc Just like the crappy weather we have had all season in Chicago it just seems to never stop raining on me this year. Sorry for the long rant but I am ready to throw in the anchor already

FIXX

iTrader: (2)

Yes the boating season in chicgo SUCKED this year,its been to fricken cold!!! do you boat on the chain?

what probably happened is your fuel pump was weak so now that you replaced it you have stronger pressure..since the carb was never rebuilt you probably have a weak needle and seat and the fuel is getting forced by it..yank the carb and put a kit in it..

one more thing to check,are you sure you got the firing order rite?