What would a well seasoned engine builder consider a normal amount of metal in an oil filter? These pictures are from a BBC with 260hrs on the engine @ around 40 hours since oil change. I cut the filter open and found these flakes, there were a few others ,but these were the largest. They were only in a couple of pleats. 90% of the pleats were clean. Is this normal? I have cut open many filters the past year, including an 09 duramax with 1000 miles on the engine. That filter even had some small metal flakes. I considered this to be normal due to the manufacturing processes, engine break in, and cleaning it's self out.
Will engines continue to shed a small amount of metal over it's life span and then increase drastically when the bearing begin to go? Or should the filter appear to be spotless with unaided vision?
Hard to tell from the pictures. But #3 looks to have a more flakes than I would be comfortable with. Oil analysis is a great way to go. I do one at my 1st oil change of the season and one at the last change. Gives me a idea of what my winter project might be. I watch the ppm count on tin, copper and aluminum. My 2 cents, sort of hard to see in your pictures whether its metal or a reflection from the flash. You can have your filter analized too.
-Hopefully now this site seems to be running properly the engine guru's will reply to this topic as I too am very interested in this issue.
When I winterized my Cig last month, we cut the filters open and found very similar tiny metallic particles. I had about 12-15 hrs of very hard running (5800-6000 rpm) on the oil/filters. On mine, the particles were all magnetic. I then proceded to cut my buddies filters open only to find traces of similar particles in all four filters we cut open.
I was told by my local engine guy that it was normal wear and tear of hard running. He did not see any traces of bearing material and the magnetic (steel) particles were most likely from the upper valve train, springs rubbing, retainers shedding etc.
He also mentioned high rpm cold starts can cause upper valve train wear as the components are rubbing together with mimimal lubrication until the oil makes its way to the top end.
Thanks to everyone who has taken a look at these pictures. Pic 3 is a little deceiving, it actually only has a few flakes of metal. All of the small spots are the reflection from the flash in the oil. The yellow circled areas are the flakes in question. Has anyone cut a filter open in conjunction with an oil analysis? I would like to determine what a normal amount of material, if any, would be.
Out of curiosity, has anyone cut a filter open on a high 800+ hr engine or one that had a bearing failure? I imagine if it had a failure it would be full of particles. Trying to learn what the filters have to tell…
Rage
I have been cutting open my filters almost every oil change. I have seen similar results every time. It does not seem to get any worse or any better.
Rage, It is hard to tell until you get a base line. Like RV stated he does his every oil change and has monitored the particles that are present. Is your filter b-4 the oil cooler or after? Could be some residual in the cooler from past engine work or failure? I worry about the big stuff, the smaller glittery stuff is up for debate. What oil are you running synthetic or Dino (which they all start as)? I would try to keep the oil changes at 30 hour or less on standard oil (not trying to open a can of worms, just my opinion).
I look at the pleats and always see some flaking. What I also do is after the can is cut off I remove the filter than let the can upright sit overnight. There is usually an ounce or so of oil left in the can. I let the metal settle out of that oil then you can get a good look at the metal present. If it is thick enough to feel pasty on the bottom, and if there is any gold, you got trouble.
Location: Omaha, Nebraska. Boat on the Mighty Mo! Longest river in the USA!
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Pachanga-27 Twin 502s
I always cut my filters open also. It's easy with a nice little tool from Summit!
When I found copper particles in mine (very few) I took the engine out and found I had a problem with the thrust bearing. Rods mains where great. If you see any copper, its from bearings, the only source of copper in your engine. If you don't see any copper particals I would roll the dice and just keep checking it.
Good luck.
Last edited by 1BIGJIM; 11-17-2009 at 01:17 PM.
Reason: can't spell
When I winterized my Cig last month, we cut the filters open and found very similar tiny metallic particles. I had about 12-15 hrs of very hard running (5800-6000 rpm) on the oil/filters. On mine, the particles were all magnetic. I then proceded to cut my buddies filters open only to find traces of similar particles in all four filters we cut open.
I was told by my local engine guy that it was normal wear and tear of hard running. He did not see any traces of bearing material and the magnetic (steel) particles were most likely from the upper valve train, springs rubbing, retainers shedding etc.
He also mentioned high rpm cold starts can cause upper valve train wear as the components are rubbing together with mimimal lubrication until the oil makes its way to the top end.
Kurt
That pretty much sums it up. The vavletrain is the biggest source of metal in the filter. The second is the pistons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue thunder
What I also do is after the can is cut off I remove the filter than let the can upright sit overnight. There is usually an ounce or so of oil left in the can. I let the metal settle out of that oil then you can get a good look at the metal present. If it is thick enough to feel pasty on the bottom, and if there is any gold, you got trouble.
This is the best advice. I do this for every filter that I cut open. I am more interested in what is in the bottom than what is in the pleats.
That amount of material in the pleats is not uncommon in an engine with over 250 hrs. Hard to tell in the pics, but it looks like aluminum. If you had a bearing going away, you would know it. It would truly make your heart sink when you open the filter up. It looks like your shop vac threw up. There will be shiny flakes completely covering the pleats and the bottom of the filter.
Eddie
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