604 c.i. Quad Whipple Project
#11
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Eric, there's no reason why you can't mention my name.... I set you up with the "brothers" because I had known them for a while and the last time the boat was running the engines were in good shape....
I'm not a liar, cheater or a stealer.... I gave you what I thought was my honest assessment of the engines and you bought them site unseen....
I feel bad for your losses because I put you in touch with the borthers but I don't feel responsible for what took place... I told you as much info as I knew about them, you should have done more due diligence.... Lesson learned I suppose.
On my end, I haven't spoke to the brothers since your incedent because they have impacted my credibility...
Good luck on your project and I hope to see you on the water sometime soon.
I'm not a liar, cheater or a stealer.... I gave you what I thought was my honest assessment of the engines and you bought them site unseen....
I feel bad for your losses because I put you in touch with the borthers but I don't feel responsible for what took place... I told you as much info as I knew about them, you should have done more due diligence.... Lesson learned I suppose.
On my end, I haven't spoke to the brothers since your incedent because they have impacted my credibility...
Good luck on your project and I hope to see you on the water sometime soon.
#12
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Panther, If I were you, I would want to make it a priority of mine to find your "Acquaintances for a long while" and make this right. Your right, it does ruin your credibility. Your right, he should have investigated the engines futher before buying them.(Not to mention, research big cheif heads not being the best choice for lower RPM power) But you know you can find these guys, this guy is out alot of money and you could be the link to him recovering his losses....
If someone tells me they are moving forward and not taking any other action, I do as well. Also, engines were purchased over a year ago...although it does not negate any of situation.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ig-chiefs.html
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...uild-584s.html
It's fine, I'll be the bastard... flame away....
Last edited by Panther; 02-19-2010 at 10:53 AM. Reason: add links
#13
Frank, I'm not coming on here to bash anyone at all. I don't think that you itentionally did anything wrong. My gut feeling was that I should have looked closer, but didn't do it. Unfortunately there are a lot of untrustworthy people out there, and it seems like a lot in this game. There are a lot of good people too. I'll dig up there names and let everyone know, but I've chalked it up as a loss and I'm moving on. The moral of the story is that do not trust anyone when buying used. Go check it out for yourself so you get what you think you are getting. I didn't think I could rationalize a day out of the office to check them out. But, I don't make 15K a day so it would have been worth it.
Guys I don't have any beef with Frank, he did not mislead me, he told me honestly what he knew. He's a good guy.
Now back to the story. At this point, Bob, Jim and Eddie tried to come up with a plan to use the "junk" I had to put something together that would be decent. Jim V. started to rework the big chiefs to make them more manageable. He filled in the intake ports to increase the velocity, welded the bad areas and cut down the exhaust flanges to eliminate the bad areas. He was excited about the project and doing an amazing job. Eddie waited patiently for cc numbers so that pistons could be ordered.
After pricing completion of the Big Chiefs with titanium valves, redoing the worn t&d shaft rockers, and buying new Stellings tails(would be required with the Chiefs), it was apparent that buying good conventional heads would be comparable in cost to going with the big chiefs especially with future maintainence was considered. I should have listened to Eddie's recommendation to go a different direction from the beginning, but I thought that I would lose too much value.
I sold the Big Chiefs to a local drag racer who was very happy to get them and rolled this into some new CNC AFR 357's. At this point, I decided that I was going from a budget build to doing it right. I have always wanted whipple efi's. So I made the committment to get what I wanted and Eddie is making it happen.
There were some saleable good parts on the motors, so I have recouped some of the loss with the sale of them. Right now Eddie has completed the short block with some new JE pistons, block was line honed, bored, decked, flywheel was balanced, new Dan Olson oil pans, oil pump. New ATI supercharger balancer, new bearings etc... Eddie does a first class job of removing casting flash and block prep. Cranks and rods were good and able to be reused after rebalance.
The AFR's were fitted with new T&D shaft rockers and Eddie modified the heads to increase oil drainage return to the lifter galley. The heads have drains that are really too small according to Eddie. My goal was a longer rebuild interval compared to trying to create the most HP possible. Eddie picked a cam profile that would be as kind as possible on the valve train components. He is using Isky springs and Morel rollers.
I found a good deal on some 2 year old 2.3 quad rotors, whipple low profile intakes and standard cupronickel intercoolers. The look of the quads has always been a favorite of mine. I will post some photos later today... Eric
Guys I don't have any beef with Frank, he did not mislead me, he told me honestly what he knew. He's a good guy.
Now back to the story. At this point, Bob, Jim and Eddie tried to come up with a plan to use the "junk" I had to put something together that would be decent. Jim V. started to rework the big chiefs to make them more manageable. He filled in the intake ports to increase the velocity, welded the bad areas and cut down the exhaust flanges to eliminate the bad areas. He was excited about the project and doing an amazing job. Eddie waited patiently for cc numbers so that pistons could be ordered.
After pricing completion of the Big Chiefs with titanium valves, redoing the worn t&d shaft rockers, and buying new Stellings tails(would be required with the Chiefs), it was apparent that buying good conventional heads would be comparable in cost to going with the big chiefs especially with future maintainence was considered. I should have listened to Eddie's recommendation to go a different direction from the beginning, but I thought that I would lose too much value.
I sold the Big Chiefs to a local drag racer who was very happy to get them and rolled this into some new CNC AFR 357's. At this point, I decided that I was going from a budget build to doing it right. I have always wanted whipple efi's. So I made the committment to get what I wanted and Eddie is making it happen.
There were some saleable good parts on the motors, so I have recouped some of the loss with the sale of them. Right now Eddie has completed the short block with some new JE pistons, block was line honed, bored, decked, flywheel was balanced, new Dan Olson oil pans, oil pump. New ATI supercharger balancer, new bearings etc... Eddie does a first class job of removing casting flash and block prep. Cranks and rods were good and able to be reused after rebalance.
The AFR's were fitted with new T&D shaft rockers and Eddie modified the heads to increase oil drainage return to the lifter galley. The heads have drains that are really too small according to Eddie. My goal was a longer rebuild interval compared to trying to create the most HP possible. Eddie picked a cam profile that would be as kind as possible on the valve train components. He is using Isky springs and Morel rollers.
I found a good deal on some 2 year old 2.3 quad rotors, whipple low profile intakes and standard cupronickel intercoolers. The look of the quads has always been a favorite of mine. I will post some photos later today... Eric
Last edited by SkiDoc; 02-19-2010 at 11:05 AM.
#14
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Best of luck on your project and I look forward to seeing the results! You are in good hands.
Frank
#15
Registered
Thanks for the cap, it looks great. Sorry I spaced it but your check will leave here in the morning.
#16
Charter Member #139 /Moderator/Platinum Member
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no way sounds like you did everything you could the only Bastards are the one who sold him junk
It is a shame where when people blame the buyer becausehe had good faith.
Dont know the whole story but until seller shows and give his side he is the bad guy in this
It is a shame where when people blame the buyer becausehe had good faith.
Dont know the whole story but until seller shows and give his side he is the bad guy in this
__________________
Kept the Bullet and the condo and joined the cig 20 restoration club.
Kept the Bullet and the condo and joined the cig 20 restoration club.
Last edited by klaw; 02-19-2010 at 01:21 PM.
#17
Here are some of the photos. The boat is a 2001 DCB F-34, it was rerigged by DCB with 509c.i. motors that have performed well since I bought in 2006. The only issue that I've had is 1 MSD box and coil. The boat at one time had Teague 1000's in it and is rigged for serious hp. save the Bravo drives which Mr. Gadgets reworked for me just after purchasing the boat.
This particular hull has a very non typical deep tunnel for a Calif. custom.
This particular hull has a very non typical deep tunnel for a Calif. custom.
#20
Whipples were purchased with Autronic ECM's and harnesses. Eddie had not used the system and has worked successfully with the MEFI system. So sold a tuner in Calif. the ECM's. And this where the project is for now. It should come together at the right time. I am leaving the 509's in as long as possible so they could be run for a buyer. It would be good peace of mind to let somebody run the motors before they buy!
Last edited by SkiDoc; 02-19-2010 at 02:38 PM.