496ho Blew Its Cookies
10-25-2010, 10:16 AM
#41
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Sorry to hear about your 496 failure on a 40 hr. 496.
Let's not "Throw the Baby Out With the Bath Water"
When you consider about 50,000 - EFI 496's are out there in the marine world from all manuafacturers and maybe 100 or so have failed similarly and many of them from supercharging stock motors its not really a problem engine. This translates to a failure percentage of about .2% which is awesome by any standard.
Not to knock or bash blue engines by any means, if there were 50,000 blue engines out there I guaranty there would be at least the same number of failures from marine performance usage as I am guessing sure about 50-100 - HP525 engines have grenaded (1% - 2%) since their 2002 introduction and Mercury Racing has only distributed about 4,000 of these engines which would be a lot higher percentage of failure. When there are less of an engine out there you hear less about issues or problems.
Everyone is quick to blame the hyper-eutectic piston in the 496 (8.1L ) engine when in fact the piston in such large usage in large quantites of engines does very well with many 496's over the 700 -1000 hour mark and still going strong. When you consider how many kit 525HP Raylar 496's are running just fine with the same pistons you can see that the piston is not the biggest problem just one of the problems that appears in some cases where I suspect fuel delivery was the real cause of failure not structural piston failure.
I think everyone in the marine industry considers myself at Raylar to one of the industry's leading experts on the 8.1L 496 engine and as such I can tell you from all of our years of work with the 496 and developing parts and engine builds for this engine that that the 496 (8.1L) efi electronic engine is more durable and reliable than any marine engine that has ever been released in similar quantities.
It is obvious that when a hyper-eutectic piston fails it can have catistrophic effects on the engine at rpms and loads, your picture of that cylinder is a perfect example of that, however sometimes the failure of a forged piston can do similar damage at speed under load.
What all efi engine boaters need to pay more attention to and be careful of is the condition of their fuel pump, filter systems and related injectors on the newer efi engines.
With winter weather storage conditions and the higher concentration of ethanols in todays fuels, the buildup of WATER and MOISTURE in these efi fuel systems is at EPIDEMIC LEVELS! and when the fuel supply is leaned to the cylinder at speed under load the combustion temperatures climb so fast and are so destructive to the piston that these failures are getting more common.
Word to the wise here, carefully winterize your engines, service and replace all fuel system filters and discs, especially in the Merc CoolFuel III systems (those on the 2003-2009 Merc 496's.)
I don't think its an overkill thing to check your fuel sytem pressure at the fuel rail under full load in the boat running at speed at the first of the season and make sure the fuel delivery is not showing reduced pressures from fuel delivery issues. Some of the new fuel system cleaners and additives may not be a bad idea for those in the colder winter storage areas. You don't nearly hear of as many of this piston failure in the warmer regions of the country and world, yes a few, but my expierence seems to show that this failure do to fuel lean burn and resulting detonation and damage is about 5 or 6 times more common in these regions or where the boat owner did not properly service the fuel system yearly or do careful winterization methods.
In any event are forged pistons for the 496 engine stronger, you bet ,especially the ones Raylar has developed and sells for this engine. Can they or any other forged piston suffer damage and failure from fuel delivery problems, you bet, see and hear about it all the time!
Again, very sorry for your engine damage and loss and if Raylar can be of any help with a new redo for that engine or parts for your redo, let us know, we would do our best to make sure the replacements would be stronger than your stock 496 engine.
Hope my information and insight here can help possibly save more boaters from engine damage such as this.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Let's not "Throw the Baby Out With the Bath Water"
When you consider about 50,000 - EFI 496's are out there in the marine world from all manuafacturers and maybe 100 or so have failed similarly and many of them from supercharging stock motors its not really a problem engine. This translates to a failure percentage of about .2% which is awesome by any standard.
Not to knock or bash blue engines by any means, if there were 50,000 blue engines out there I guaranty there would be at least the same number of failures from marine performance usage as I am guessing sure about 50-100 - HP525 engines have grenaded (1% - 2%) since their 2002 introduction and Mercury Racing has only distributed about 4,000 of these engines which would be a lot higher percentage of failure. When there are less of an engine out there you hear less about issues or problems.
Everyone is quick to blame the hyper-eutectic piston in the 496 (8.1L ) engine when in fact the piston in such large usage in large quantites of engines does very well with many 496's over the 700 -1000 hour mark and still going strong. When you consider how many kit 525HP Raylar 496's are running just fine with the same pistons you can see that the piston is not the biggest problem just one of the problems that appears in some cases where I suspect fuel delivery was the real cause of failure not structural piston failure.
I think everyone in the marine industry considers myself at Raylar to one of the industry's leading experts on the 8.1L 496 engine and as such I can tell you from all of our years of work with the 496 and developing parts and engine builds for this engine that that the 496 (8.1L) efi electronic engine is more durable and reliable than any marine engine that has ever been released in similar quantities.
It is obvious that when a hyper-eutectic piston fails it can have catistrophic effects on the engine at rpms and loads, your picture of that cylinder is a perfect example of that, however sometimes the failure of a forged piston can do similar damage at speed under load.
What all efi engine boaters need to pay more attention to and be careful of is the condition of their fuel pump, filter systems and related injectors on the newer efi engines.
With winter weather storage conditions and the higher concentration of ethanols in todays fuels, the buildup of WATER and MOISTURE in these efi fuel systems is at EPIDEMIC LEVELS! and when the fuel supply is leaned to the cylinder at speed under load the combustion temperatures climb so fast and are so destructive to the piston that these failures are getting more common.
Word to the wise here, carefully winterize your engines, service and replace all fuel system filters and discs, especially in the Merc CoolFuel III systems (those on the 2003-2009 Merc 496's.)
I don't think its an overkill thing to check your fuel sytem pressure at the fuel rail under full load in the boat running at speed at the first of the season and make sure the fuel delivery is not showing reduced pressures from fuel delivery issues. Some of the new fuel system cleaners and additives may not be a bad idea for those in the colder winter storage areas. You don't nearly hear of as many of this piston failure in the warmer regions of the country and world, yes a few, but my expierence seems to show that this failure do to fuel lean burn and resulting detonation and damage is about 5 or 6 times more common in these regions or where the boat owner did not properly service the fuel system yearly or do careful winterization methods.
In any event are forged pistons for the 496 engine stronger, you bet ,especially the ones Raylar has developed and sells for this engine. Can they or any other forged piston suffer damage and failure from fuel delivery problems, you bet, see and hear about it all the time!
Again, very sorry for your engine damage and loss and if Raylar can be of any help with a new redo for that engine or parts for your redo, let us know, we would do our best to make sure the replacements would be stronger than your stock 496 engine.
Hope my information and insight here can help possibly save more boaters from engine damage such as this.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Love the new rumor to stay away form the 496 because people think Merc has dropped it because of problems. The real reason is the 496 is no longer produced by GM because they no longer need it for their truck line. You get two optins with a GM truck now, small block 6.0 or duramax. Merc has followed what GM is producing, I am thinking if merc has to produce new engines themselves wouldn't it be easier using a BBC that has been around in some form since the late 60's? The same engine they never stopped using for the blue motors.
10-26-2010, 09:32 AM
#42
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We're So Lucky, They are so smart!
4bus:
You are exactly correct as to the demise of the truck 8.1L engine the total basis for the Merc 496 that so many purchased and are enjoying. Yes, Merc has gone back to their own 502 based , Merc built big block.
Its called the new 8.2L Mag and HO engine and its a very nice unit with great features and internals. The downside to this new engine is the very expensive, unproven special catalyst exhaust system and emmissions controls that have take the cost of Merc's big block offering from the great Merc 496 mag and HO whcih were available to builders and dealers at about $14K to $17K per engine and now taken in up by over 50% to about $22K to $24K per engine.
This puts the cost of this new offering so much closer to the cost of a Merc HP525efi which by exemption is still emissions legal in all 50 states that the added 100HP and performance and looks of the HP525efi would be my choice , especially in a new boat for the best power to dollar option!
We're so lucky to have these wonderfully smart and energetic enviromentalists (EPA), politicians and beauracrats looking out for our good over the horrible pollution of the atmosphere over the nations waterways, are we NOT????
SLEEP TIGHT! YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEIR ENTOURAGE OF MISGUIDED INTELLIGENCE ARE AWAKE TONIGHT!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
You are exactly correct as to the demise of the truck 8.1L engine the total basis for the Merc 496 that so many purchased and are enjoying. Yes, Merc has gone back to their own 502 based , Merc built big block.
Its called the new 8.2L Mag and HO engine and its a very nice unit with great features and internals. The downside to this new engine is the very expensive, unproven special catalyst exhaust system and emmissions controls that have take the cost of Merc's big block offering from the great Merc 496 mag and HO whcih were available to builders and dealers at about $14K to $17K per engine and now taken in up by over 50% to about $22K to $24K per engine.
This puts the cost of this new offering so much closer to the cost of a Merc HP525efi which by exemption is still emissions legal in all 50 states that the added 100HP and performance and looks of the HP525efi would be my choice , especially in a new boat for the best power to dollar option!
We're so lucky to have these wonderfully smart and energetic enviromentalists (EPA), politicians and beauracrats looking out for our good over the horrible pollution of the atmosphere over the nations waterways, are we NOT????
SLEEP TIGHT! YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEIR ENTOURAGE OF MISGUIDED INTELLIGENCE ARE AWAKE TONIGHT!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Last edited by Raylar; 10-26-2010 at 09:34 AM.
10-26-2010, 09:51 AM
#43
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10-26-2010, 01:58 PM
#44
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4bus:
You are exactly correct as to the demise of the truck 8.1L engine the total basis for the Merc 496 that so many purchased and are enjoying. Yes, Merc has gone back to their own 502 based , Merc built big block.
Its called the new 8.2L Mag and HO engine and its a very nice unit with great features and internals. The downside to this new engine is the very expensive, unproven special catalyst exhaust system and emmissions controls that have take the cost of Merc's big block offering from the great Merc 496 mag and HO whcih were available to builders and dealers at about $14K to $17K per engine and now taken in up by over 50% to about $22K to $24K per engine.
This puts the cost of this new offering so much closer to the cost of a Merc HP525efi which by exemption is still emissions legal in all 50 states that the added 100HP and performance and looks of the HP525efi would be my choice , especially in a new boat for the best power to dollar option!
We're so lucky to have these wonderfully smart and energetic enviromentalists (EPA), politicians and beauracrats looking out for our good over the horrible pollution of the atmosphere over the nations waterways, are we NOT????
SLEEP TIGHT! YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEIR ENTOURAGE OF MISGUIDED INTELLIGENCE ARE AWAKE TONIGHT!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
You are exactly correct as to the demise of the truck 8.1L engine the total basis for the Merc 496 that so many purchased and are enjoying. Yes, Merc has gone back to their own 502 based , Merc built big block.
Its called the new 8.2L Mag and HO engine and its a very nice unit with great features and internals. The downside to this new engine is the very expensive, unproven special catalyst exhaust system and emmissions controls that have take the cost of Merc's big block offering from the great Merc 496 mag and HO whcih were available to builders and dealers at about $14K to $17K per engine and now taken in up by over 50% to about $22K to $24K per engine.
This puts the cost of this new offering so much closer to the cost of a Merc HP525efi which by exemption is still emissions legal in all 50 states that the added 100HP and performance and looks of the HP525efi would be my choice , especially in a new boat for the best power to dollar option!
We're so lucky to have these wonderfully smart and energetic enviromentalists (EPA), politicians and beauracrats looking out for our good over the horrible pollution of the atmosphere over the nations waterways, are we NOT????
SLEEP TIGHT! YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THEIR ENTOURAGE OF MISGUIDED INTELLIGENCE ARE AWAKE TONIGHT!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
I agree with you 100 percent on the new emissions, we have bigger fish to fry but it is easy to pick on a small market. New boat sales are 1/10th of what they were 20 years ago, I can't see the carbon foot print from new boats being all that big. I'm still pissed about the demise of 2 stroke street bikes, and these new EVAP pain in the a$$ gas cans (which we use to fill things that have gas vents anyway)
I wonder how soon before EVAP systems show up on boats? Coast Guard Emmisions inspections?
Has you seen what happens to a CAT when a car is driven with a misfire and it loads up with hydro carbons? Doesn't seem like the safest thing for a bilge.
Ahhh....politics, attack a small market and John Q Public will not notice, but it makes a nice feather in your cap come election time "I saved the planet from boat emmisions"
10-26-2010, 03:03 PM
#45
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I have a friend with a 2002 boat running a 496 Mag HO...Right now he has 800 hours on it. I always thought that the 496 had forged internals...Are they actually cast? What is the lifespan on a 496?
10-26-2010, 04:48 PM
#46
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No idea but that is great, imagine if fourms were filled with guys braggin about how many hours they are getting out of their motors? Nope, they are busy boating.....the unlucky guys are here talking about how much their cast internals suck
10-26-2010, 06:12 PM
#47
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Ahhh, that explains why you never see a 496 with a blower! I always wondered why people go with the Raylar kits but nothing beyond...Now I know.
Thats funny btw on the 805 hours! The boat seems to run strong but I wonder how long that engine and outdrive will last...
Thats funny btw on the 805 hours! The boat seems to run strong but I wonder how long that engine and outdrive will last...
10-26-2010, 10:49 PM
#48
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12-08-2010, 10:29 PM
#49
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Being a conservative/capitalist I am probably a polar opposite to most on this forum, but big brother needs to worry about their own debt, pork bills and stop worring about bogus greenhouse/globalwarming poop that is all bologna and leave us boaters alone. If they had their way about we will be poker running in hybrid/total electric cats and vee hulls with 3 tons of batteries that have to be charged every few miles. Sorry I have gone totally off subject.
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12-08-2010, 11:06 PM
#50
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