outriggers

I use synthetic Rotela (blue jug) in almost everthing around here, wife's Range Rover, truck, tractors, generators, gas or diesel. Boat gets Mobil 1 V-twin 20-50 with some cam shield. www.cam-shield.com

minxguy

I would like to know then, what is too much.

I have been running oils with over 1600 PPM for decades and never had a foaming issue. Never even heard that foaming is an issue with zinc until your post. Honestly, I think you are mis-informed.

Ken

JRider

iTrader: (1)

I have a 575sci with stock flat tappet cam. I run whatever diesel oil (Delvac, Retella) 15/40 is on sale and add a bottle of STP (high zinc content). One has to ask how much zinc is in the bottle of STP?

I get some gas dilusion in the oil after some hard running so I dont mind the thickening of the oil with stp. I also chang my oil often enough I cant justify the price of synthetics. I would have to say that the oil is not even close to being broken down when I change it...it is more diluted that anything. The main advantage of synthetics is that they dont break down as fast...if the oil does not get to a break down point what is the sense in running synthetic?

I run with a guy that changes his oil (Amsoil) after every day of running! I think that is overkill...and expensive. I think I will tell him to save the used and I will run it in my buick riv 3800 daily driver!

I am not even close to an expert...this just comes from (problem free) experience.

35fountain

I always said
The cost of synthetic oil doesn't come close to the cost of broken engine parts

Just my 2 cents

dogturd21

I use the exact same oil. Now Fountain, WTF are my exhaust risers !!

07DominatorSS

Ken, if its formulated from the start with it, no big problem. But when you start messing with the formulation, i.e. adding zddp additive, how does anyone know what is too much? I know this may sound stupid, but why then not just run straight additive in the crankcase, if, supposedly you can't add too much???

minxguy

I would agree with everything you are saying and I won't comment on the obvious bait of your last sentence.

What is the level for foam? You stated it would happen, at what level?

Some of us would like to know.

Ken

35fountain

smart oil choice....Risers ??...What Risers ?? LOL

wtfo

I'm not an "expert" on oil chemistry, but I do have some very related background and have done a good amount of research in the peer reviewed literature on the subject of zinc dialkyl phosphates and related chemistry and scuff / abraision related wear between iron surfaces. At the levels we're talking about, they do make a iszable difference. That's not opinion, it's a fact based on a body of research that has been validated under controlled conditions. Change the conditions and sure, the correlation goes down a bit, but still it's a pretty safe bet.

Based on my intrepretation of what I've read, the ca. 1200 ish ppm level seems to be the point where increases in benefit level off so something above that but not absurd would seem prudent to add to oils that do not contain it due to regulatory issues targeted at protecting catalytic converters in street vehicles.

I AGREE that it is not smart to add any oil additive without very careful consideration - many of them do contain surfactants / detergents / solvents, etc... that coiuld interact in a (possibly VERY) negative way with the components of commercial oil formulations. Many of them are snake oil... Many times the higher molecular weight polymers that are added can increase foaming potential, add gasoline contamination and it can become a real problem in a hurry. in an older engine or one that is full of carbon from poor running conditions, suddenly dramatically increasing the detergency of the oil freeing upo large amounts of particulate can indeed clog oil passages, lead to spun bearings, etc...

On the other hand, to think that products like Lucas break in additive or comp cams oil additive will create a foaming issue when they have been formulated for dyno use, etc... borders on absurd.

btw. most foaming problems stem from breakdown products, pH imbalance, and contaminants such as those leached from silicone (rtv!) and other gasket sealers, etc... OH, and moisture combined with pH... not good.

How much ZDDP do you get by adding say a bottle of lucas break in additive to a 7 quart oil change? about 3500 ppm. I go with half that in either rotella t 15-40 or mobile one 15-50 depending on the engine. and run mobile one 5-30 in my car with no additives. Of course, there are a lot of other good options and almost any oil that you check and change regularly is better than the very best that you don't maintain.

sorry for the book. as I said, not an expert by any means, but I'm comfortable with what i do. I've no axe to grind here, just trying to impress a bunch of people I;ve never met and probably never will cause i got nothing better to do then sit at home, watch TV and wish I had a life... ;-)

waybomb

Anybody know the concentration of zddp in the original General Motors EOS (Engine Oil Supplement) prior to current product with reduced zddp?