Guys need some supercharger advice ! and boat information
06-22-2011, 08:44 PM
#21
06-23-2011, 12:43 AM
#22
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hey
lol well obviously im going to run it wide open just trying to get the point across .. that the boat doesn't get beat on at all ... and yes i am reading the words .. and what im getting is if your going to do it , do it right which im planning on doing it right .. does anyone have some links for all the stuff im going to need to do it .. and one of the good things is i have a mechanic that will bolt it all on for me for free .. to save me some money there .. I dont see any reason why this boat couldn't handle another 10-15 mph .. rides nice and smooth at 75
06-23-2011, 01:13 AM
#23
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You obviously need to learn a valuable lesson the hard way (expensive way) Just because the boat handles good at 75 mph, means NOTHING. It could all go to chit at 80.
Next, you should NOT put a supercharger on an engine with 450 hours, no matter how easy it was run. It needs to be freshened (at least the top end) before adding an SC. Doesn't matter if it was idled for 450 hours. At a minimum, freshen the top end. You need to replace the head gaskets and exhaust valves any way. They WILL NOT stand up to 5 psi of boost.
If you get your buddy to do it for free, then you will get exactly what you pay for.......NOTHING. Is he a MARINE engine builder? Has he done any marine engine work before? If not, he has no business working on it. Remember the part about doing it right? That included having an experienced shop doing the work correctly. Is your buddy going to warranty it when it breaks? Is he going to buy you all new parts when the rods ventilate the oil pan? Probably not. Pay someone that knows what they are doing.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I have had many of these come into my shop over the years. They all started this exact same way. You are going to spend 8-10K minimum to do it right. Spend it now one time, or spend more of it later. It's up to you.
Listen to what these guys are telling you. You obviously came here for advice. You're getting it. It's just not what you want to hear. You want someone to tell you that you can do it for $10 and it will run like a clock for the next 32 years. That's not gonna happen. There is a wealth of knowledge hear if you are willing to listen and accept it.
You can take my advice if you wish. This is what I do every day of my life. I've been doing it for longer than I care to remember and I think I'm pretty damn good at it. If you read this well and heed my advice, I will have saved you countless thousands of dollars for free.
I would be willing to help you in any way I can...just ask. However, you have to be willing to take the advice even if it isn't what you want to hear. Good luck.
Eddie
Next, you should NOT put a supercharger on an engine with 450 hours, no matter how easy it was run. It needs to be freshened (at least the top end) before adding an SC. Doesn't matter if it was idled for 450 hours. At a minimum, freshen the top end. You need to replace the head gaskets and exhaust valves any way. They WILL NOT stand up to 5 psi of boost.
If you get your buddy to do it for free, then you will get exactly what you pay for.......NOTHING. Is he a MARINE engine builder? Has he done any marine engine work before? If not, he has no business working on it. Remember the part about doing it right? That included having an experienced shop doing the work correctly. Is your buddy going to warranty it when it breaks? Is he going to buy you all new parts when the rods ventilate the oil pan? Probably not. Pay someone that knows what they are doing.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I have had many of these come into my shop over the years. They all started this exact same way. You are going to spend 8-10K minimum to do it right. Spend it now one time, or spend more of it later. It's up to you.
Listen to what these guys are telling you. You obviously came here for advice. You're getting it. It's just not what you want to hear. You want someone to tell you that you can do it for $10 and it will run like a clock for the next 32 years. That's not gonna happen. There is a wealth of knowledge hear if you are willing to listen and accept it.
You can take my advice if you wish. This is what I do every day of my life. I've been doing it for longer than I care to remember and I think I'm pretty damn good at it. If you read this well and heed my advice, I will have saved you countless thousands of dollars for free.
I would be willing to help you in any way I can...just ask. However, you have to be willing to take the advice even if it isn't what you want to hear. Good luck.
Eddie
06-23-2011, 08:05 AM
#24
RIPSTA Racing Team
VIP Member
You obviously need to learn a valuable lesson the hard way (expensive way) Just because the boat handles good at 75 mph, means NOTHING. It could all go to chit at 80.
Next, you should NOT put a supercharger on an engine with 450 hours, no matter how easy it was run. It needs to be freshened (at least the top end) before adding an SC. Doesn't matter if it was idled for 450 hours. At a minimum, freshen the top end. You need to replace the head gaskets and exhaust valves any way. They WILL NOT stand up to 5 psi of boost.
If you get your buddy to do it for free, then you will get exactly what you pay for.......NOTHING. Is he a MARINE engine builder? Has he done any marine engine work before? If not, he has no business working on it. Remember the part about doing it right? That included having an experienced shop doing the work correctly. Is your buddy going to warranty it when it breaks? Is he going to buy you all new parts when the rods ventilate the oil pan? Probably not. Pay someone that knows what they are doing.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I have had many of these come into my shop over the years. They all started this exact same way. You are going to spend 8-10K minimum to do it right. Spend it now one time, or spend more of it later. It's up to you.
Listen to what these guys are telling you. You obviously came here for advice. You're getting it. It's just not what you want to hear. You want someone to tell you that you can do it for $10 and it will run like a clock for the next 32 years. That's not gonna happen. There is a wealth of knowledge hear if you are willing to listen and accept it.
You can take my advice if you wish. This is what I do every day of my life. I've been doing it for longer than I care to remember and I think I'm pretty damn good at it. If you read this well and heed my advice, I will have saved you countless thousands of dollars for free.
I would be willing to help you in any way I can...just ask. However, you have to be willing to take the advice even if it isn't what you want to hear. Good luck.
Eddie
Next, you should NOT put a supercharger on an engine with 450 hours, no matter how easy it was run. It needs to be freshened (at least the top end) before adding an SC. Doesn't matter if it was idled for 450 hours. At a minimum, freshen the top end. You need to replace the head gaskets and exhaust valves any way. They WILL NOT stand up to 5 psi of boost.
If you get your buddy to do it for free, then you will get exactly what you pay for.......NOTHING. Is he a MARINE engine builder? Has he done any marine engine work before? If not, he has no business working on it. Remember the part about doing it right? That included having an experienced shop doing the work correctly. Is your buddy going to warranty it when it breaks? Is he going to buy you all new parts when the rods ventilate the oil pan? Probably not. Pay someone that knows what they are doing.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I have had many of these come into my shop over the years. They all started this exact same way. You are going to spend 8-10K minimum to do it right. Spend it now one time, or spend more of it later. It's up to you.
Listen to what these guys are telling you. You obviously came here for advice. You're getting it. It's just not what you want to hear. You want someone to tell you that you can do it for $10 and it will run like a clock for the next 32 years. That's not gonna happen. There is a wealth of knowledge hear if you are willing to listen and accept it.
You can take my advice if you wish. This is what I do every day of my life. I've been doing it for longer than I care to remember and I think I'm pretty damn good at it. If you read this well and heed my advice, I will have saved you countless thousands of dollars for free.
I would be willing to help you in any way I can...just ask. However, you have to be willing to take the advice even if it isn't what you want to hear. Good luck.
Eddie
06-23-2011, 09:06 AM
#25
Daniel, there are a couple of ways to approach this. You can follow Eddie's advice to a "T" and find an experienced marine mechanic who has a lot of successful supercharged marine engines (fuel injected in particular) under his belt, pay the money and get him to do everything for you. The advantage here is that he will get it done faster, hopefully right the first time, and possibly provide you with some type of warranty if disaster strikes. The other way is to do what a lot of the guys on this board have done. Dig and research and learn what it takes to do it right the first time. Find out what parts you need, what needs to be done to the engine to make it live, how things need to be tuned, etc. The search function on this site (and other sites) is very powerful if you learn to use it. I know it would be great for someone to just spoon feed you everything that needs to be done from start to finish, but it doesn't work that way. You need to do some research yourself too. It will take longer this way, and there may be some trial and error, but you will have the satisfaction of learning how a high performance mill is put together.
Some of the other guys have touched on the safety factor in all of this. IMO, a 20 foot boat running at 75 mph is on the ragged edge of being safe as it is. When you start talking about speeds approaching 90 mph on the water, things can go wrong much faster than you may realize. When you hit one of those rogue rollers that you can hardly see at speeds like that, especially in a boat that size, it is hard to predict how the boat will handle it. Definitely invest in the best safety equipment you can get if you want to run those speeds. Get the best life vest you can afford, use your lanyard, maybe even consider a helmet when you are going to crank it up that high. I don't want to sound like an old fart preaching to you, but I have seen some bad things happen on the water.
Some of the other guys have touched on the safety factor in all of this. IMO, a 20 foot boat running at 75 mph is on the ragged edge of being safe as it is. When you start talking about speeds approaching 90 mph on the water, things can go wrong much faster than you may realize. When you hit one of those rogue rollers that you can hardly see at speeds like that, especially in a boat that size, it is hard to predict how the boat will handle it. Definitely invest in the best safety equipment you can get if you want to run those speeds. Get the best life vest you can afford, use your lanyard, maybe even consider a helmet when you are going to crank it up that high. I don't want to sound like an old fart preaching to you, but I have seen some bad things happen on the water.
06-23-2011, 09:19 AM
#26
Here's a laundry list for starters:
High performance head gaskets - Multi Layer Steel, most folks prefer the Cometics, although some have run the FelPro's with some success.
Inconnel or Ferrea Super Alloy exhaust valves. The word that I have heard is that the Ferrea's are a real nice piece, some say that they are better than the Inconnels. COnsider upgrading the intakes as well to a high quality stainless alloy. You will need a performance valve job with a good, wide seat for the exhaust valves to transfer heat. Some of the engine experts on the site can help with exact numbers.
Consider cleaning up the combustion chambers to eliminate hot spots that could preignite.
You may want to invest in a more aggressive cam to take advantage of the supercharger. In this case, go with a billet core, high quality (Morel) lifters, good pushrods and valvesprings (Isky), high quality full roller rockers, etc.
You will probably need a better exhaust system to take full advantage of the supercharger, although some folks have managed all right with stock exhaust on a supercharged engine.
As mentioned before, the fuel delivery system will need to be revamped. Bigger lines, tank pickup, water separator, injectors, etc.
The stock T-bolt ignition should be up to the task, but you will need a different timing curve. This may be handled by whomever does the ECU programming.
There, that's a start. Then you will find all the little things that will come up unexpectedly (ask me how I know
). Things like couplers, water crossovers, pulley clearance, etc.
You are in for a real adventure. In the meantime, enjoy your boat while it is still stock, troublefree, and relatively fast!
High performance head gaskets - Multi Layer Steel, most folks prefer the Cometics, although some have run the FelPro's with some success.
Inconnel or Ferrea Super Alloy exhaust valves. The word that I have heard is that the Ferrea's are a real nice piece, some say that they are better than the Inconnels. COnsider upgrading the intakes as well to a high quality stainless alloy. You will need a performance valve job with a good, wide seat for the exhaust valves to transfer heat. Some of the engine experts on the site can help with exact numbers.
Consider cleaning up the combustion chambers to eliminate hot spots that could preignite.
You may want to invest in a more aggressive cam to take advantage of the supercharger. In this case, go with a billet core, high quality (Morel) lifters, good pushrods and valvesprings (Isky), high quality full roller rockers, etc.
You will probably need a better exhaust system to take full advantage of the supercharger, although some folks have managed all right with stock exhaust on a supercharged engine.
As mentioned before, the fuel delivery system will need to be revamped. Bigger lines, tank pickup, water separator, injectors, etc.
The stock T-bolt ignition should be up to the task, but you will need a different timing curve. This may be handled by whomever does the ECU programming.
There, that's a start. Then you will find all the little things that will come up unexpectedly (ask me how I know
). Things like couplers, water crossovers, pulley clearance, etc.You are in for a real adventure. In the meantime, enjoy your boat while it is still stock, troublefree, and relatively fast!
06-23-2011, 09:24 AM
#27
Here's another thing to consider - maybe you should just pull your engine out and set it aside, and then start from scratch with an engine assembled specifically for the supercharger. That way you would have your old, reliable motor as a spare bullet in case you lunch your blower motor. I couldn't tell you all the guys who have found themselves at the beginning of a season with a busted motor who wish they had a spare to drop in to drive around the lake while it is being repaired.
06-23-2011, 09:30 AM
#28
RIPSTA Racing Team
VIP Member
Here's another thing to consider - maybe you should just pull your engine out and set it aside, and then start from scratch with an engine assembled specifically for the supercharger. That way you would have your old, reliable motor as a spare bullet in case you lunch your blower motor. I couldn't tell you all the guys who have found themselves at the beginning of a season with a busted motor who wish they had a spare to drop in to drive around the lake while it is being repaired.
06-23-2011, 09:39 AM
#29
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Holy chit, what a bunch of wet blankets! Your motor already has low compression, good internals, and inconel exhaust valves. Go buy a procharger M1 kit with 4-5lbs max, get Mark Boos to program your ecm and go have fun. If it lasts the whole season do the top end and check the cylinders then. I've got 380 hours on my stock 350 mags with cast pistons and cranks and 5lbs boost. Obviously upgrading everything would be great but everyone's gotta start somewhere.
06-23-2011, 10:41 AM
#30
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like i said the hours on the boat have not been wide open hours at all .. thing has been never really been pushed .. also we have done compression tests etc .. the motor is fresh .. and this boat would be for just cruising around the lake im not doing any hardcore driving etc.. I thought the leg would be fine? i wont be doing any hole shots etc.. anyways thanks for the advice aswell does someone have some links for the parts that i needed? also forgot to say the boat has only ever been ran in fresh water never been in the salt at all
You need to consider that a boat engine is not at all closely compared to a car engine. Boat engines NEVER coast. Even if you never ran it wide open it sees wear and tear at a FAR faster pace than any car engine. When a boat is put in gear, it si ALWAYS underl load. This is why so many routinely do complete refreshes between 400-500 hours, give or take.
And I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone on here that would agree that your stock B1 outdrive would be up to the task. It would have to be babied constantly. Not doing hole shots at all is only a small piece to your drive lasting... the prop leaving tghe water and re-entering is what will destroy it faster than you can say "sportmaster lower"
Again, not trying to be disouraging, just trying to provide you with all the information because it seems you definitly dont have all the right info to make an informed decision, but by all means, do what you think is best.
