Scat crank in new GM 454 engine ???
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Scat crank in new GM 454 engine ???
ok, 3 years ago bought to brand new 454 complete marine engines from some marine engine place for my gibson, had all kinds of issues on the RH rotation one...had a noise from day one..wrote off as piston slap..then had the balancer come loose because of missing reluctor gear on the crank, now noise got worse, pulled it out and apart..#5 rod bearing spun...has a scat crank ?? WTF in a new GM engine ??? now this engine has never seen 4k, only 180 hours, never been hot..broke in with rotella oil..switched to royal purple 15w50...babied...unreal ??
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I think the questionable wording here is "brand new" versus "brand new OEM GM engines"
There is NO WAY any GM original engine was fitted with a Scat or other aftermarket crankshaft. Kellog made a few for 496's and I am sure a few specialty engines had some other US- OEM manufacturere crankshaft limited use but Scat or Eagle or such NO WAY!
It's possible these engines could have been constructed with all new parts by the original builder or engine company and they could have used Scat crankshafts in their build. It sounds as though there could be problems with the original build and these possible errors could have resulted in all the issues and damage you have seen.
I know many people in the industry have used some Scat crankshafts with very good results, so without knowing the exact failure scenario and issues I would not be quick to point the finger at the crankshaft , but look to whoever originally built these "new engines". This is also provided these engines did not have some other lubrication or cooling issues that may have led to down the road damage and failures.
Hope you can get them back to "right" as inexpensively as possible as I it sounds like you nver got good reliability or usage from them.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
There is NO WAY any GM original engine was fitted with a Scat or other aftermarket crankshaft. Kellog made a few for 496's and I am sure a few specialty engines had some other US- OEM manufacturere crankshaft limited use but Scat or Eagle or such NO WAY!
It's possible these engines could have been constructed with all new parts by the original builder or engine company and they could have used Scat crankshafts in their build. It sounds as though there could be problems with the original build and these possible errors could have resulted in all the issues and damage you have seen.
I know many people in the industry have used some Scat crankshafts with very good results, so without knowing the exact failure scenario and issues I would not be quick to point the finger at the crankshaft , but look to whoever originally built these "new engines". This is also provided these engines did not have some other lubrication or cooling issues that may have led to down the road damage and failures.
Hope you can get them back to "right" as inexpensively as possible as I it sounds like you nver got good reliability or usage from them.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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I agree, but if you ck anywhere you will find these NEW GM base engines...bought new in the crate...never touched...scat crank so ???? just like these...
http://www.chicagoengines.com/marine...se-engine.html
http://www.chicagoengines.com/marine...se-engine.html
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Never Say Never??
I can see what this add states and yes GM Powertrain makes new base engines available to their distributors and those engines are not built in regular GM vehicle engine plants but by lower Tier suppliers. It could be that because GM is no longer producing their forged or cast crankshafts in their GM vehicle engine plants for the 454-502 engines that are no longer in production, that perhaps these Tier builders are now using other suppliers for parts for these engine short and longblocks. This would be new to me and many others in the industry, but I have now learning to "never say never" and I should have possibly not stated that in my previous post.
I guess Scat would have to confirm this and answer the last word on this situation. Maybe they are selling the GM Powertrain contracted supplier with their crankshafts. I guess its possible just new to me and many others.
Did your supplier also use the same exact language description in their advertising for the engines you purchased?
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
I guess Scat would have to confirm this and answer the last word on this situation. Maybe they are selling the GM Powertrain contracted supplier with their crankshafts. I guess its possible just new to me and many others.
Did your supplier also use the same exact language description in their advertising for the engines you purchased?
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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yes, listed as New GM marine base engines, Now I did some research and am told none of the GM marine engines are assembled by GM, they use a outsource assembly co. and they offer NO warranty on any marine engine..that is left up to the marinizer..this was told to me by a engine guy at crusader marine. also...scat makes a factory balance 454 crank that is not a lightweight internal balance like the majority of the aftermarket cranks out there..#910454L.....so seems they made a deal with GM....unreal..now this engine is the RH rotation which has to be done by a marinizer...and appears mine was 1/2 assed...left the reluctor gear out, did not install the special rear main seal..which did leak, or reverse the pistons which crusader said that they recommend...goes to show you never know what you are buying anymore...
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fixx
I was talking to a salesman at scat a few years ago,he stated that GM was one of their big customers so seeing that their was a scat crankshaft in your engine dont suprise me..i have used scat cranks in many engines and never had any problems what so ever..if their were some clearance issues then that would be the person assembling the lower ends problem and not the product..
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was not blaming scat...I know there do a decent product...just shocked when saw the crank with their name on it in a new GM engine....one other thing I found is that the new oval port heads use a long reach tapered seat plug..not the conventional short they have used since 1970...of course the guys who replaced the engines 3 years ago installed them they put in std short plugs...been in there ever since...now compaired to the 2 sets of ret ports, they still use the short so what out here..had no idea..
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GM base engine does not mean what it used to??
Well good information then and I stand as corrected in my first answer. Its obvious now that the old perception that new GM base engines of the marine type are no longer manufactured and assembled by GM, but by subcontractors.
What this simply really means now is that the advertising of a new GM base engine is really an attempt to live off the old days when GM engine plants actually built the engines and controlled the quality of the end product.
What this also now means is that the quality of the base engine and its correctness is coming fom just any engine shop they select as a subcontractor or allow to work in their supply system and the REAL product you receive in this type of purchase can be a big problem in some cases as you have seen from your particular case.
Sounds like us independant marine engine builders with good product might be even more valuable to marine engine users than ever before!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
What this simply really means now is that the advertising of a new GM base engine is really an attempt to live off the old days when GM engine plants actually built the engines and controlled the quality of the end product.
What this also now means is that the quality of the base engine and its correctness is coming fom just any engine shop they select as a subcontractor or allow to work in their supply system and the REAL product you receive in this type of purchase can be a big problem in some cases as you have seen from your particular case.
Sounds like us independant marine engine builders with good product might be even more valuable to marine engine users than ever before!
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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I have a bought many new Gm 502's from 1800runsnew and they all had the best parts you could buy from GM performance parts all had JE pistons . sounds like they are building there own with cheaper parts to make more money and selling them as a new gm engine.