trying to wake up from a 15 yr nap.....
10-29-2012, 12:17 PM
#32
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[QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3805042]
Perhaps I got carried away with the water conditions. The 272 is a true 27+ center line boat and its heavy, as I understand it. So, suppose 35mph in 3-4 foot seas is more appropriate. My point was that it should take some snot at a decent speed without totally beating us up.
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.
I can't say that a lot of what is mentioned here hasn't crossed my mind. Some new, and very valid, points here as well.
A quick note on why 350 Mags. PLease don't get me wrong...I am completely aware of and agree with the "no replacement for displacement" theory. My goal here is to get into the 272 SR1 that I wanted and could not afford at 17 and 18 yrs old, when Formula was building these things. I know this boat will handle 3-4s at a 45 mph cruise all day long comfortably. I'm not looking for a 70mph piece. An occasional 60mph shot is good with me. The fuel economy of small blocks is an added benefit of not needing to scream all over the lake-the thought make me smile but it's not what I need. Big motors in performance boats seem to take an rpm beating. They don't like 5500 to 6 grand for too long before they pop. So, considering the hours that most of these late 80's and early 90's big block boats have and not needing the speed, I decided on small blocks. It's ok if some folks don't agree with me on that...
QUOTE]
For starters, a 272 Formula is not gonna be a boat you wanna go on lake Erie and run 3-4's on a regular basis. Formula makes a nice boat, but its still a 27ft boat. I took my old 241 Four Winns Liberator out on lake michigan 1 time. That was a very deep freeboard boat, lake was 3-4' true NOAA forecast seas, and I basically got beat up all day, soaking wet, and couldnt go more than 35mph.
In regards to your big block rpm theory, Im not sure what you mean. A twin 330HP 454 powered 272 Formula, which was the big block option of the day in that boat, is super reliable. A pair of 330hp stock 454's easily go 1000 hours in a boat like that.
In modified big blocks, trust me, here on oso, you will find plenty of guys spinning big blocks to 6000+ RPM, and not ''popping things.''
It seems that you pretty much made up your mind on the small block alpha boat, that is pretty much gonna need a bunch of work put into it, a trailer, and hope the engines and drives are ok. Its your money, if thats what you wanna do, go for it.
Chances are, to remove those fuel tanks, your gonna need to remove about all of the cockpit interior, including the back seat, the floor access panel, and get the chainsaw out to cut out all the foam around them. Then, reinstall and refoam in the tanks. Not sure i'd be looking to do all that.
A quick note on why 350 Mags. PLease don't get me wrong...I am completely aware of and agree with the "no replacement for displacement" theory. My goal here is to get into the 272 SR1 that I wanted and could not afford at 17 and 18 yrs old, when Formula was building these things. I know this boat will handle 3-4s at a 45 mph cruise all day long comfortably. I'm not looking for a 70mph piece. An occasional 60mph shot is good with me. The fuel economy of small blocks is an added benefit of not needing to scream all over the lake-the thought make me smile but it's not what I need. Big motors in performance boats seem to take an rpm beating. They don't like 5500 to 6 grand for too long before they pop. So, considering the hours that most of these late 80's and early 90's big block boats have and not needing the speed, I decided on small blocks. It's ok if some folks don't agree with me on that...
QUOTE]
For starters, a 272 Formula is not gonna be a boat you wanna go on lake Erie and run 3-4's on a regular basis. Formula makes a nice boat, but its still a 27ft boat. I took my old 241 Four Winns Liberator out on lake michigan 1 time. That was a very deep freeboard boat, lake was 3-4' true NOAA forecast seas, and I basically got beat up all day, soaking wet, and couldnt go more than 35mph.
In regards to your big block rpm theory, Im not sure what you mean. A twin 330HP 454 powered 272 Formula, which was the big block option of the day in that boat, is super reliable. A pair of 330hp stock 454's easily go 1000 hours in a boat like that.
In modified big blocks, trust me, here on oso, you will find plenty of guys spinning big blocks to 6000+ RPM, and not ''popping things.''
It seems that you pretty much made up your mind on the small block alpha boat, that is pretty much gonna need a bunch of work put into it, a trailer, and hope the engines and drives are ok. Its your money, if thats what you wanna do, go for it.
Chances are, to remove those fuel tanks, your gonna need to remove about all of the cockpit interior, including the back seat, the floor access panel, and get the chainsaw out to cut out all the foam around them. Then, reinstall and refoam in the tanks. Not sure i'd be looking to do all that.
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.
10-29-2012, 12:58 PM
#33
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[QUOTE=motocop;3805065][QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3805042]
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.[/QUOTE]
A big block 330HP package isn't a haul the mail package. Its a reliable user friendly cruiser engine.
Im not guessing when I say there are guys out there turning big blocks to 6000rpm with good luck and longevity. Its a fact. Its not 1985 any more. The parts available to us, roller camshafts, excellent quality valve springs, connecting rods, gaskets and fasteners, make reliable 6000+RPM big blocks are reality. 30 years ago it wasnt. Regardless, we arent talking 6000rpm engines for a 272 Formula. We are suggestion 330HP, 365HP Stock mercury 454 engines. Kept at 5000RPM and below, these engines are pretty bulletproof. Maintance is the key. A leaky exhaust riser gasket can kill a 200 hour small block or big block in one run.
Your leary of a big block, based off of your gut feeling. Im leary of a pair of engines that sat for 15 years, based on experiance. Im also leary of Alpha drives in 3-4ft'ers, stagnant fuel in the aluminum tanks, not having a trailer, and what kind of time and money you'll have invested in getting this boat back to reliable running condition. IMO, in this market, if you have 20-25k to spend, you can do alot better than a 50mph 27' boat with alphas. Yes, with stock 260HP 350's, that 272 will be lucky to hit 50MPH unless you have 10 gallons of fuel in it, and a tailwind.
Are those counter rotating alphas or both props turning the same direction?
Not trying to be a jerk, but Ive been on oso for 8 years, and playing with boats a long time. I too started small, and came on here asking questions, seeking answers from guys who had more knowledge than I. I listened to what they had to say, and learned a ton. Seems like lately, nothing but new guys signing up here, and if they dont hear what they want to hear, they rebuttle, do what they wish, and disappear. So why bother even wasting everyones time. You have the answers and made your mind up, go buy the darn thing!
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.[/QUOTE]
A big block 330HP package isn't a haul the mail package. Its a reliable user friendly cruiser engine.
Im not guessing when I say there are guys out there turning big blocks to 6000rpm with good luck and longevity. Its a fact. Its not 1985 any more. The parts available to us, roller camshafts, excellent quality valve springs, connecting rods, gaskets and fasteners, make reliable 6000+RPM big blocks are reality. 30 years ago it wasnt. Regardless, we arent talking 6000rpm engines for a 272 Formula. We are suggestion 330HP, 365HP Stock mercury 454 engines. Kept at 5000RPM and below, these engines are pretty bulletproof. Maintance is the key. A leaky exhaust riser gasket can kill a 200 hour small block or big block in one run.
Your leary of a big block, based off of your gut feeling. Im leary of a pair of engines that sat for 15 years, based on experiance. Im also leary of Alpha drives in 3-4ft'ers, stagnant fuel in the aluminum tanks, not having a trailer, and what kind of time and money you'll have invested in getting this boat back to reliable running condition. IMO, in this market, if you have 20-25k to spend, you can do alot better than a 50mph 27' boat with alphas. Yes, with stock 260HP 350's, that 272 will be lucky to hit 50MPH unless you have 10 gallons of fuel in it, and a tailwind.
Are those counter rotating alphas or both props turning the same direction?
Not trying to be a jerk, but Ive been on oso for 8 years, and playing with boats a long time. I too started small, and came on here asking questions, seeking answers from guys who had more knowledge than I. I listened to what they had to say, and learned a ton. Seems like lately, nothing but new guys signing up here, and if they dont hear what they want to hear, they rebuttle, do what they wish, and disappear. So why bother even wasting everyones time. You have the answers and made your mind up, go buy the darn thing!
10-29-2012, 01:27 PM
#34
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[QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3805094][QUOTE=motocop;3805065]
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.[/QUOTE]
A big block 330HP package isn't a haul the mail package. Its a reliable user friendly cruiser engine.
Im not guessing when I say there are guys out there turning big blocks to 6000rpm with good luck and longevity. Its a fact. Its not 1985 any more. The parts available to us, roller camshafts, excellent quality valve springs, connecting rods, gaskets and fasteners, make reliable 6000+RPM big blocks are reality. 30 years ago it wasnt. Regardless, we arent talking 6000rpm engines for a 272 Formula. We are suggestion 330HP, 365HP Stock mercury 454 engines. Kept at 5000RPM and below, these engines are pretty bulletproof. Maintance is the key. A leaky exhaust riser gasket can kill a 200 hour small block or big block in one run.
Your leary of a big block, based off of your gut feeling. Im leary of a pair of engines that sat for 15 years, based on experiance. Im also leary of Alpha drives in 3-4ft'ers, stagnant fuel in the aluminum tanks, not having a trailer, and what kind of time and money you'll have invested in getting this boat back to reliable running condition. IMO, in this market, if you have 20-25k to spend, you can do alot better than a 50mph 27' boat with alphas. Yes, with stock 260HP 350's, that 272 will be lucky to hit 50MPH unless you have 10 gallons of fuel in it, and a tailwind.
Are those counter rotating alphas or both props turning the same direction?
Not trying to be a jerk, but Ive been on oso for 8 years, and playing with boats a long time. I too started small, and came on here asking questions, seeking answers from guys who had more knowledge than I. I listened to what they had to say, and learned a ton. Seems like lately, nothing but new guys signing up here, and if they dont hear what they want to hear, they rebuttle, do what they wish, and disappear. So why bother even wasting everyones time. You have the answers and made your mind up, go buy the darn thing!
joe,as you have heard me say many times,you can lead a horse to the water,but you cant make it drink,
Longevity is what I was referring to on the big motors. I understand why they are motors of choice- they haul the mail...as well they should.....it's just that a large number of these boats are 700 + hours and the "0,5,20 hours on rebuilt or repowered motors" makes me nervous as well (who did the work and was it done corerectly). But you are correct in saying that guys out there are doing it...it's just for how long. Makes me a little leary. Small motors are more forgiving in rpm, generally speaking.
Yes the tank is a project, too. Thanks for your input.[/QUOTE]
A big block 330HP package isn't a haul the mail package. Its a reliable user friendly cruiser engine.
Im not guessing when I say there are guys out there turning big blocks to 6000rpm with good luck and longevity. Its a fact. Its not 1985 any more. The parts available to us, roller camshafts, excellent quality valve springs, connecting rods, gaskets and fasteners, make reliable 6000+RPM big blocks are reality. 30 years ago it wasnt. Regardless, we arent talking 6000rpm engines for a 272 Formula. We are suggestion 330HP, 365HP Stock mercury 454 engines. Kept at 5000RPM and below, these engines are pretty bulletproof. Maintance is the key. A leaky exhaust riser gasket can kill a 200 hour small block or big block in one run.
Your leary of a big block, based off of your gut feeling. Im leary of a pair of engines that sat for 15 years, based on experiance. Im also leary of Alpha drives in 3-4ft'ers, stagnant fuel in the aluminum tanks, not having a trailer, and what kind of time and money you'll have invested in getting this boat back to reliable running condition. IMO, in this market, if you have 20-25k to spend, you can do alot better than a 50mph 27' boat with alphas. Yes, with stock 260HP 350's, that 272 will be lucky to hit 50MPH unless you have 10 gallons of fuel in it, and a tailwind.
Are those counter rotating alphas or both props turning the same direction?
Not trying to be a jerk, but Ive been on oso for 8 years, and playing with boats a long time. I too started small, and came on here asking questions, seeking answers from guys who had more knowledge than I. I listened to what they had to say, and learned a ton. Seems like lately, nothing but new guys signing up here, and if they dont hear what they want to hear, they rebuttle, do what they wish, and disappear. So why bother even wasting everyones time. You have the answers and made your mind up, go buy the darn thing!
Last edited by mike tkach; 10-29-2012 at 02:06 PM.
10-29-2012, 02:38 PM
#35
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I came to this site a little over a year ago looking for information on rebuilding an 89' Baja. The information I got from the guys one this site was great and I'm very a glad I came across the site. When I was searching for a boat it was recommended to me I look for a boat with a big block and a bravo. I followed the advise and one of my friends didn't. My boat had the 454 taken out because it was junk, but did have a good bravo 1. Well I put together a stock big block for not very much money. 454 310hp motor parts are dirt cheap!!!! The boat (89 Baja 235) ran right at 59-60 mph and was dead reliable!!! The other guy had a 350 alpha setup and he had to run the boat on we pins to keep up with my 42-45 cruise. Busting drives and just wearing it out to keep up. After one season I had the bug to go faster. I ported the oval heads bigger valves, little cam and better intake. I got to about 64-65 with that round of modifications.
Point being is I made the right choice by listening to the people on this site who have been doing this a long time. It saved me an upgrade in boats because I could have started out in a 350 alpha setup and really been unhappy with my speed and reliability. After only running my Baja 1.5 seasons I already had the bigger faster boat bug. And that's after redoing my motor earlier this spring for more power. Reading this site has shown me other hulls that I never knew about or even that there were fast or slow hulls. That being said I just picked up my new boat last Monday. A 98' velocity 280 with a 502 mag.
What's helped me is that I got into both the Baja and velocity for very good deals so I'm not upside down on them and can sell them to move up. At 12.5k for a 350 alpha boat that needs work you will either own it a very long time or sell it for a huge loss.
These guys are trying to give good advise. Coming from my own experience they are spot on!!
PS... I had to pull and clean the tank on my Baja and it sucked!!!!!! The positive is I got the boat, interior, trailer and bravo 1 for less then a used bravo 1 so I dealt with bs like cleaning the gas tank. Lol
Point being is I made the right choice by listening to the people on this site who have been doing this a long time. It saved me an upgrade in boats because I could have started out in a 350 alpha setup and really been unhappy with my speed and reliability. After only running my Baja 1.5 seasons I already had the bigger faster boat bug. And that's after redoing my motor earlier this spring for more power. Reading this site has shown me other hulls that I never knew about or even that there were fast or slow hulls. That being said I just picked up my new boat last Monday. A 98' velocity 280 with a 502 mag.
What's helped me is that I got into both the Baja and velocity for very good deals so I'm not upside down on them and can sell them to move up. At 12.5k for a 350 alpha boat that needs work you will either own it a very long time or sell it for a huge loss.
These guys are trying to give good advise. Coming from my own experience they are spot on!!
PS... I had to pull and clean the tank on my Baja and it sucked!!!!!! The positive is I got the boat, interior, trailer and bravo 1 for less then a used bravo 1 so I dealt with bs like cleaning the gas tank. Lol
10-29-2012, 02:49 PM
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Other than that I agree with everything you've said. $20k for that boat is a total joke, the 86' I looked at (older style) was so clean you could eat off it and it sold without a trailer for $8k. 650hours on the motors. It was the original owner (or second owner), and rack stored.
I'm assuming since I got no response you aren't any bit interested in the 272 with 350EFI's 320hp I know will be for sale in the springtime? Are you only wanting 350/260's??
Last edited by BBCLiberator; 10-29-2012 at 03:11 PM.
10-29-2012, 04:21 PM
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Huh? I was just in a 272 in September with stock 260's and it ran 62mph on my GPS (I was looking to buy but timing was bad). I also have one two spots over at my rack building and when my boat (502) was stock our boats were really close, I would BARELY pull on him...61-63 depending on the day. I know things are getting a bit heated here but let's not get all crazy
Other than that I agree with everything you've said. $20k for that boat is a total joke, the 86' I looked at (older style) was so clean you could eat off it and it sold without a trailer for $8k. 650hours on the motors. It was the original owner (or second owner), and rack stored.
I'm assuming since I got no response you aren't any bit interested in the 272 with 350EFI's 320hp I know will be for sale in the springtime? Are you only wanting 350/260's??
Other than that I agree with everything you've said. $20k for that boat is a total joke, the 86' I looked at (older style) was so clean you could eat off it and it sold without a trailer for $8k. 650hours on the motors. It was the original owner (or second owner), and rack stored.
I'm assuming since I got no response you aren't any bit interested in the 272 with 350EFI's 320hp I know will be for sale in the springtime? Are you only wanting 350/260's??
Actually, I am very interested in the EFI boat. I was trying to respond to everyone and get ready for work...ran short on time. Please PM me the info or shoot a number to me and I'll make the call.
I can't thank everyone enough. This gives me a great deal to think about.
