FIXX

iTrader: (2)

the real issue is that the owner is asking too many people questions AND IS GETTING TOO MANY DIFFERENT ANSWERS...he needs to go back to his old set up where the boat jumped on plane and went 124 mph..period..

The next trend about this boat will be a little better but still not like it was before...

MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

I know this. My point was IMO the 600ci deal was cammed and setup right. Hp peaked at 6300, made massive torque down low. We don't know where joes hp peaked, as it never stopped climbing.

My point was to show what a procharger setup is capable of. Look at joes 522's, they also made massive torque, just way to high in the powerband. While I know the 522 won't compare to a 600ci from a torque standpoint, but 522 isn't exactly a small block. It just needs the right setup like mrfixxall said.

dennis r

iTrader: (1)

You realy need the ci to make the most out of a m4 procharger I have hade very good luck with mine. it is a 8.5 to 1 motor and with a big prop on it's hard to get on plane with full tank of gas.

GPM

I agree, the set up could be much better, about 10 degree less duration on the cam or spin a smaller prop to about 7500.

mike tkach

iTrader: (3)

i am not aware of this boat ever going 124 mph,where did you hear that?

MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

I believe that is about where his new cams will be. I want to say they are gonna be 242/248, 113LSA, .630ish lift.

MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=mrfixxall;3824608]he needs to go back to his old set up where the boat jumped on plane and went 124 mph..period..

QUOTE]

I dont think this boat ever saw 124. Although, I see no reason why with the proper setup it couldnt. TRL505 on here, had a 42 with SCX drives, and a pair of 1050 or 1080HP whipple engines. His boat did run 124 I believe after it was dialed in. That right there tells you theres more to going fast than HP alone. He's going faster with less power. Or less dyno power I should say.

X dimension, Hull bottom, drive toe, prop design, etc all come into play, especially on a heavy vee bottom over 100mph.

I also think Joe overthinks this drive ratio thing a bit. He keeps saying the 1.36 gears are causing his low speed issues. He forgets, the one time he ran the boat and it accelerated so well with 1.5' gears, was that he was running a 30P prop!! and the motors moved north of 6000 like nothing, pulling to 6500 before they backed out of it. This year he put 1.36 gears in, and still ran a 30p prop. Well, naturally it wont accelerate the same! I run 28p props to 5600. If I slapped some 23p props on it well sure its gonna take off like a bat outta hell.

You have to consider the prop slip setup. If his engines get straightened out, he puts the -3" shortys on. And lets say this boat is capable of 125MPH with the power he'll have. Lets also say he wants to spin the engines to 6000RPM.

To hit 125MPH, with lets say 1.5 gears, he will need a 38Pitch prop, figuring in a slip factor of around 12-14%.

With the 1.36 setup, he will need a prop with about 34'' of pitch roughly.

While Im sure a 1.5 ratio may out accelerate a 1.36 ratio, we need to be realistic when it comes to propping the boat. 37,38,39 pitch props arent exactly readily available. If I personally were setting this boat up, i'd be going for the 3'' shorty, (he has -1 now), and keeping the 1.36 gears. I think the boat will have many more prop options to try in the 32-34 pitch range.

FIXX

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=MILD THUNDER;3825522]i agree and that was my thoughts exactly,,needs to keep the 1.36 with the -3'' shortys..i woulf try it after the engines are built and if it were still a pooch then i would put a smallet pully on the prochargers and or add a air tube's to the props so he can slip the props a bit until he can plane out..

TunnelVision3100

Hey everybody, WOW I didnt realize my little engines were such a huge conversation piece. To answer alot of questions, yes I am stubborn and I learn the hard way. When I first built the engines, I went to the wrong Cam guy. Sure my engines made alot of power but all in the wrong RPM band. The only real mistake I did make was going with what I believe was a reverse dome or a dish piston. My comp is somewhere maybe near 8:1 or a little lower. As far as my dyno numbers being false, that is an incorrect statement. Sure there was a 6% correction factor but do the math....Still puts the engine regardless North of 1200 and all of this was done on a DTS dyno if I am not mistaken. Joe G (mild Thunder and Mike Tkach have been trying to put me on the right track but alot of this cost money as we all know and Im trying to wisely spend it where its going to matter the most. I was very tired spinning the engines to 6500 RPM and I was also worried about the heat being generated in the IMCO SCX drives spinning that kind of RPM. With the new Cam selection, my entire power band is going be moved down. I did talk to Bob Mader who by the way has been very informative in so many ways and I am very thankful for our conversations. I did decide to stay loyal to my friend who I have spent thousands already on my engine parts to get these engines right. (No i did not buy the big Cams from him). He uses a company called Cam Motion which Im sure alot of you guys have heard of. They came up with 638 on the Lift, 242 / 248 with a 112 1/2 LSA. I think I read earlier in this huge post that a guy mentioned a 112LSA and he was right. I ran these spec's by Bob Madera and I believe he said I was going in the right direction but we didnt get to finish our conversation because work just got crazy busy and I had to call him back. Anyhow, just to clear the record, Mike Tkach did a fantastic job on assembling everything. I have never met anybody more anal when assembling an engine. As a matter of fact, he sent my blocks back twice because a couple of things were off by a thousandth... As it turned out, my wonderful pan fed procharger took a **** and shot a **** load of garbage into the engine and took out my #3 main bearing. #1 lesson, when a pan fed procharger blows up, pull the engine!!!!!! This was probably the 2nd mistake only made and both mistakes were made by me and my poor decision making. That is why I went back to my engine guy where I got all the parts from and put my bastard engines back in his hands to straighten out. I should have listened to him the first time, theres my 3rd mistake and my 4th mistake is that I should have only listened to him! The guy I am dealing with does know what hes doing and he knows what works and what doesnt etc... There really isnt any need for anybody to be bashing anybody on this thread at all and Im not understanding why some people are getting blamed for stuff that was either out of their control, not their fault or was my fault. I understand that everybody has an opinion but to start bashing somebody without the actual true facts is completely disrespectful and unprofessional and very childish in alot of ways. Just remember the one guy that you are bashing just might be the one guy that you may need one day to save your stranded ass! Its a small boater world!

MILD THUNDER

iTrader: (3)

Good post Joe. Maybe we can all get along now. Me, you, mrfixxall, mike Tkach , and Jeff Armstrong. Sooner or later we're all gonna be on a poker run together.

Maybe if you get these engines straightened out, you'll finally be able to keep up with mike Tkachs fountain .........