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Ethanol is it as harmfull as they say?

Old 03-12-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Payton
Chargi,t
"BULL SH!T

"The package allows a credit of up to $100,000 per filling station" to convert pumps to E15-E85 capability.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/bu...stry.html?_r=0

States on an individual basis have given Ethanol a break on road taxes collected. This is a SUBSIDY to the ethanol industry at the cost of taxes collected.
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/...ive-fuels.aspx "


You really need to read the articles you posted. They support my statement.
The first says less than 2% of gas stations can even pump anything over E10. I guess you could call that a subsidy. Although it's more of a subsidy to a small business.
The second one is about all alternative fuels. The states are looking for ways to rewrite the fuel tax laws to cover all alt fuels including electric, hydrogen, soy diesel even used cooking oil.

So be careful when you yell, bs.
Dont try to spin with more BS.
2% can pump more than e10 but the subsidity is there to increase the number of stations thus increase ethanol usage and allow the industry/special interest push for higher % mandates. (difficult to do without infrastructure in place but that is not a road block to special interest funded Legislators)
Last I checked the oil companies are not "small" business and even for individual station owners this is not about "helping" a small business.

Second article FACT - states do give significant tax breaks to ethanol blended over pure gasoline.
As states look for tax pennies and try to stay ahead of alternative fuel trends, many are looking to tax alternative fuels. At this time, all other fuels are a drop in the bucket compared to the ethanol tax SUBSIDY.

Spin your ethanol agenda to someone less intelligent....... like Legislators.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:33 PM
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Ethanol does not receive a tax subsidy. I buy gas for my farm direct from a supplier. On the invoice they have printed the price of the blended gas,then all of the taxes are added. The only savings is that ethanol is cheaper per gallon than gas. The taxes are the same. The only fuel that has a tax savings is off road diesel, because that is used directly in ag production and can't be used onroad with out a stiff penalty.
Ethanol is not the end all product. I think a step better is BioButanol. Most ethanol plants can be converted over to produce it.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Payton
Ethanol does not receive a tax subsidy. I buy gas for my farm direct from a supplier. On the invoice they have printed the price of the blended gas,then all of the taxes are added. The only savings is that ethanol is cheaper per gallon than gas. The taxes are the same. The only fuel that has a tax savings is off road diesel, because that is used directly in ag production and can't be used onroad with out a stiff penalty.
Ethanol is not the end all product. I think a step better is BioButanol. Most ethanol plants can be converted over to produce it.
Look back at my original quote - "States on an individual basis have given Ethanol a break on road taxes collected."

Indiana is not a state that differentiates, therefore you would not see a difference.
breakdown by state - http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/mf.pdf

Your statement that grain ethanol is not subsidized also appears to be half true. The federal subsidity was removed but according to this DOE website, Indiana still SUBSIDIZES ethanol produced within its borders to the tune of 12.5 cents per gallon.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/laws/IN
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ChargeIt
Look back at my original quote - "States on an individual basis have given Ethanol a break on road taxes collected."

Indiana is not a state that differentiates, therefore you would not see a difference.
breakdown by state - http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/mf.pdf

Your statement that grain ethanol is not subsidized also appears to be half true. The federal subsidity was removed but according to this DOE website, Indiana still SUBSIDIZES ethanol produced within its borders to the tune of 12.5 cents per gallon.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/laws/IN
OK, so you educated me on that 12.5 cents. If you look at Indiana's budget surplus, I would say it was money well spent to invest in a product grown and processed in our state.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:43 PM
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Default Low octane damage

However, when the ethanol breaks down you are left with 85 octane fuel with water in it. Run that in your high performance, high compression, advance timed engine under a heavy load and you will find piston destroying detonation instantly.

This is exactly what happened to my 900 hp engines. Fuel was two years old. Several pistons damaged, one with a 1/2 in piece missing from it. Looks like microscopic Swiss cheese on side of top 1/4 in of piston

Last edited by TahoeRick; 03-13-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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