Another water in oil milkshake thread
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Another water in oil milkshake thread
Yes I have searched the forums and have read pretty much all posts on this but still stumped. Fresh rebuild second day on the water I had milkshake motor puking completely out of the breathers on the valve covers with gallons of water when drained block.
Background… new rebuild about 4 hrs total including trailer time. Ran boat first day ran great about 2-3 hrs cheacked oil halfway through day oil was fine. Second day died on idle twice leaving marina. Got on plane but was sluggish but blamed it on going to bigger prop switch from day before. Running rough like it was starving for fuel. Ran it pretty hard the day before so I thought maybe too little gas left in tank and sloshing around. Got gas kept stalling going from idle to in gear forward or reverse. Got back on plane drove to other side of lake cruising speed idle to bay and kept stalling at idle. Would rev fine but could not get in gear before stalled. Then pulled hatch and saw puke but NEVER hydrolocked. Whole time temp never went over 170 max on a 160 Tstat and oil pressure always around 40psi.
The engine… 94 454 mag efi .30 over domed JE forged pistons, mild hydraulic cam 284/290 LSA 112. Roller tip rockers, double roller timing chain, mild port on intake and exhaust, larger 42 cc injectors, new inconell exhaust valves, all felpro marine gaskets, stainless marine dry joint riser to manifold with long tails water dumps about 4 inches from transom. Ecu still stock map planned to get custom tune.
Drained oil, dumped 50/50 diesel oil mix through valve covers while plug out, ran two new oil changes had about 4-8 ounces fresh raw water in bottom of pan each time. Seemed like didn’t run up dipstick till later in run cycle 15 plus mins when engine was hot.
External flapper was not sealing properly come to find out top of internal butterfly flapper broken and resting on bottom. Had to readjust boat a few times on the trailer first day on the water on a very steep ramp and dipped it in another steep ramp second day. I think this is how I intitally got water possibly into cylinders and sat overnight leaked into pan. Then the next day everytime I stalled Im guessing washout from stalling came back up the pipes but again no hydrolock just had to give gas to fire up.
Leakdown test passed all within 10% and spark plugs were nice and French toast color looking. No knocks no pinging. I am guessing at this point intake gaskets? Cracked intake? Cracked block between oil and water passages or lifter valley? Oil Cooler cracked even though clean power steering fluid? Or would there somehow still be some residual water somehow still in engine that didn’t milkshake which I highly doubt. Yes the teardown will begin but what are your opinions? Sorry for long post but easier to give as much info upfront, thanks in advance for any help.
Background… new rebuild about 4 hrs total including trailer time. Ran boat first day ran great about 2-3 hrs cheacked oil halfway through day oil was fine. Second day died on idle twice leaving marina. Got on plane but was sluggish but blamed it on going to bigger prop switch from day before. Running rough like it was starving for fuel. Ran it pretty hard the day before so I thought maybe too little gas left in tank and sloshing around. Got gas kept stalling going from idle to in gear forward or reverse. Got back on plane drove to other side of lake cruising speed idle to bay and kept stalling at idle. Would rev fine but could not get in gear before stalled. Then pulled hatch and saw puke but NEVER hydrolocked. Whole time temp never went over 170 max on a 160 Tstat and oil pressure always around 40psi.
The engine… 94 454 mag efi .30 over domed JE forged pistons, mild hydraulic cam 284/290 LSA 112. Roller tip rockers, double roller timing chain, mild port on intake and exhaust, larger 42 cc injectors, new inconell exhaust valves, all felpro marine gaskets, stainless marine dry joint riser to manifold with long tails water dumps about 4 inches from transom. Ecu still stock map planned to get custom tune.
Drained oil, dumped 50/50 diesel oil mix through valve covers while plug out, ran two new oil changes had about 4-8 ounces fresh raw water in bottom of pan each time. Seemed like didn’t run up dipstick till later in run cycle 15 plus mins when engine was hot.
External flapper was not sealing properly come to find out top of internal butterfly flapper broken and resting on bottom. Had to readjust boat a few times on the trailer first day on the water on a very steep ramp and dipped it in another steep ramp second day. I think this is how I intitally got water possibly into cylinders and sat overnight leaked into pan. Then the next day everytime I stalled Im guessing washout from stalling came back up the pipes but again no hydrolock just had to give gas to fire up.
Leakdown test passed all within 10% and spark plugs were nice and French toast color looking. No knocks no pinging. I am guessing at this point intake gaskets? Cracked intake? Cracked block between oil and water passages or lifter valley? Oil Cooler cracked even though clean power steering fluid? Or would there somehow still be some residual water somehow still in engine that didn’t milkshake which I highly doubt. Yes the teardown will begin but what are your opinions? Sorry for long post but easier to give as much info upfront, thanks in advance for any help.
#2
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That sucks. Sorry for your troubles. If your plugs and cylinders do not have any water in them, then it is not a reversion issue. However, to make sure, I would pull the risers to take a look down the manifolds. I would agree with your thoughts on either an intake or head gasket. I would pull the intake and take a look at the water passages and the gaskets. I am assuming since you are up in northern New York that you are in fresh water? So, most likely, the intake passages are not rotted out. How is your water pressure at speed ?
#5
may seem like a silly question but i'll still ask anyway...when the motor was re-built....did they/you use sealant on the head bolts? some of the head bolts go into the water jackets on the motors and if not sealed you could be getting water seeping past the screw heads and into the oil...may not be anything actually wrong with the motor itself....just need to seal the head bolts...
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I still have a waterpump. Manifolds not checked I do plan to check them when I pull em. I did not build will have to find out but I believe he did use sealer as he was pretty particular when building.
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Check the Intake Manifold Gaskets, did you seal them around the water ports, they can leak if no sealer used., also check to make sure the correct gaskets were used that fir the water port correctly.
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take a flashlight and look up inside transom assy for barnacles and such. no matter how carefully you remove all evidence of sitting in salt, there are places you can't get to. 20 year old raw water big block heads scare me. check bottom of intake water passage. they rot through. take manifold and riser. set it upright and fill water passage with hose till water runs out back of riser. look inside exhaust ports. if not dripping down immediately exhausts are probably not the problem. this doesn't sound like water getting in thru combustion chambers. it usually blows out the back while running and fills cyls when stopped.
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The stalling sounds to me like water is getting into the cylinders. You may have also caused the engine to run lean without remapping the ecu which causes detonation which can cause the head gaskets to lift. You can pressure test a marine engine just block off all the hoses going to and from the exhaust and water inlet and rig a coolant pressure gauge to a hose. I had the same problem years ago, after a rebuild with brand new heads, i found a cylinder head cracked right next to the rocker. After spending thousands on exhaust that i was told i needed. I kept milkshaking. Finally got tired of the guessing game and pressure tested everything to find a stream of water squirting straight up to the top of the valve cover.
I also have seen and heard the exhaust going straight or slightly up hill on some boats causing water to run back into cylinders.
I also have seen and heard the exhaust going straight or slightly up hill on some boats causing water to run back into cylinders.
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Outdrive was taken off a yr ago to replace the gimbal bearing and everything checked out good then as far as corrosion but dont even know if it even was a saltwater boat anyway.
Only was stalling the day it was filled with gallons of water. Since then 1hr plus time and two oil changes on the hose has no problems running on idle or above however never put in gear or had a load on it.
Forgot to mention when rebuilt the heads were pressure checked and decked at a machine shop and one valve seat replaced for precautionary measure.
Also along with going from the factory 36 lb injectors to 42 lb we added an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail and bumped up the fuel pressure. So I am thinking even though no ecu tune based on color of plugs I am fairly safe.
Thanks for the help so far. Been busy with work... checking manifolds first then all the gaskets and seals intake side first and go from there.
Only was stalling the day it was filled with gallons of water. Since then 1hr plus time and two oil changes on the hose has no problems running on idle or above however never put in gear or had a load on it.
Forgot to mention when rebuilt the heads were pressure checked and decked at a machine shop and one valve seat replaced for precautionary measure.
Also along with going from the factory 36 lb injectors to 42 lb we added an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail and bumped up the fuel pressure. So I am thinking even though no ecu tune based on color of plugs I am fairly safe.
Thanks for the help so far. Been busy with work... checking manifolds first then all the gaskets and seals intake side first and go from there.