Turbine powered eliminator (project)
12-14-2002, 07:34 AM
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Gary-
The Allison is a great, reliable little turbo-shaft, but as Steve said, will come up short of your goals in fun factor.
I would recommend the Lycoming LTS101 (650shp) for your project, but your investment is going to be considerably higher.
These engines run 2500 hours between O/H, 1250 on the hot section. the fuel burn on diesel (loafing) is similar to a 600SC Merc giving everything it has. Torque is instantaneous with the turbine (I think the LTS is a little over 1000#?). You will also tear that 600SC down at least 4 times in that 1250 hour period! Add that cost up over the life of a turbo-shaft- the math favors the turbine every time. There are a couple of decent turbo-shafts out of the Czechs and Russians as well, sometimes at a real bargain.
There's no voodoo science with a turbine. There's not a lot of parts trying to beat their way out like in a reciprocating engine. Some don't like the noise (I say 'what?' a lot anymore) or the smell, but after the initial investment is over, they make a piston engine look quite bad both in power output and longetivity. They look pretty cool at the docks too!
You can sometimes find good turbo-shafts in the aircraft weeklly publication "Trade-A-Plane".
Check out the folowing link, and talk to Ted. Also, don't forget that the mfg. and designer of that drive you intend to use is still around, and driving his turbine cat on a regular basis. I don't have a phone # for Howard Arneson, but I bet he'd give you some pointers if you can get a hold of him!
www.marineturbine.com
Jim
The Allison is a great, reliable little turbo-shaft, but as Steve said, will come up short of your goals in fun factor.
I would recommend the Lycoming LTS101 (650shp) for your project, but your investment is going to be considerably higher.
These engines run 2500 hours between O/H, 1250 on the hot section. the fuel burn on diesel (loafing) is similar to a 600SC Merc giving everything it has. Torque is instantaneous with the turbine (I think the LTS is a little over 1000#?). You will also tear that 600SC down at least 4 times in that 1250 hour period! Add that cost up over the life of a turbo-shaft- the math favors the turbine every time. There are a couple of decent turbo-shafts out of the Czechs and Russians as well, sometimes at a real bargain.
There's no voodoo science with a turbine. There's not a lot of parts trying to beat their way out like in a reciprocating engine. Some don't like the noise (I say 'what?' a lot anymore) or the smell, but after the initial investment is over, they make a piston engine look quite bad both in power output and longetivity. They look pretty cool at the docks too!
You can sometimes find good turbo-shafts in the aircraft weeklly publication "Trade-A-Plane".
Check out the folowing link, and talk to Ted. Also, don't forget that the mfg. and designer of that drive you intend to use is still around, and driving his turbine cat on a regular basis. I don't have a phone # for Howard Arneson, but I bet he'd give you some pointers if you can get a hold of him!
www.marineturbine.com
Jim
Last edited by jafo; 12-14-2002 at 07:37 AM.
12-16-2002, 06:19 AM
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turbines/
Originally posted by SteveDavid
Gary,
Sounds like a challenging project
I'll be happy to help you in those areas where I'm knowledgeable. We've been running Turbines in our Unlimited since 1990. Ours are Lycoming T-55L7C. These were used in the Shinook helos during the Viet Nam war and are still in use today. They are factory rated at 2650 HP. In the boats we're rule restricted to 4.3 GPM of fuel at 110% of N2 for a total shaft HP of about 2900 to 3000.
In the application you're talking about, (T-63) I don't know that the HP (300) will be enough for you. By the itme you load it down with reduction gears, etc. your final propshaft HP may not raise the fun factor high enough to justify the expense.
A couple of good folks to speak with would be Dean Claussen at the Bravo Shop in Fort Myers. He ran a turbine in a 26' Cat for several years as he developed his B Max drive. JAFO on the OSO Board works on jets every day and lives in the Chicago area. Nice guy and boat savvy.
A word of caution: boat insurance and turbine power are rarely found in the same sentence
While one might not worry about the hull insurance, it's the liability I'd be concerned with. If a PT section goes away on you, and the containment blanket (available from Security race products) doesn't suffice, you have a pretty heavy disk spinning at lots of RPM flying thru the air like a 25 pound frisbee taking out mstt anything in it's path, including hulls and humans.
If you do it, keep us advised, it will be quite the engineering adventure!
Gary,
Sounds like a challenging project
I'll be happy to help you in those areas where I'm knowledgeable. We've been running Turbines in our Unlimited since 1990. Ours are Lycoming T-55L7C. These were used in the Shinook helos during the Viet Nam war and are still in use today. They are factory rated at 2650 HP. In the boats we're rule restricted to 4.3 GPM of fuel at 110% of N2 for a total shaft HP of about 2900 to 3000.In the application you're talking about, (T-63) I don't know that the HP (300) will be enough for you. By the itme you load it down with reduction gears, etc. your final propshaft HP may not raise the fun factor high enough to justify the expense.
A couple of good folks to speak with would be Dean Claussen at the Bravo Shop in Fort Myers. He ran a turbine in a 26' Cat for several years as he developed his B Max drive. JAFO on the OSO Board works on jets every day and lives in the Chicago area. Nice guy and boat savvy.
A word of caution: boat insurance and turbine power are rarely found in the same sentence
While one might not worry about the hull insurance, it's the liability I'd be concerned with. If a PT section goes away on you, and the containment blanket (available from Security race products) doesn't suffice, you have a pretty heavy disk spinning at lots of RPM flying thru the air like a 25 pound frisbee taking out mstt anything in it's path, including hulls and humans.If you do it, keep us advised, it will be quite the engineering adventure!
12-16-2002, 09:32 AM
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jafo,
Thanks for the input. I'll be shopping around for a turbine during the next few months and I'll see what's available and what I can afford. I'm not too comfortable with soviet turbines. I was afraid parts might be difficult to get and the manuals would be in some slavic language with letters I had never seen before.
I see from another post, you work on these things. If you've got a spare Lycoming sitting around, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.
Gary
Thanks for the input. I'll be shopping around for a turbine during the next few months and I'll see what's available and what I can afford. I'm not too comfortable with soviet turbines. I was afraid parts might be difficult to get and the manuals would be in some slavic language with letters I had never seen before.
I see from another post, you work on these things. If you've got a spare Lycoming sitting around, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.
Gary
12-23-2002, 08:35 AM
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pstorti
With gear reduction, exhaust, intake screen, it's got to be over 4'. Take a look at this link.
http://www.nyethermodynamics.com/
Gary
With gear reduction, exhaust, intake screen, it's got to be over 4'. Take a look at this link.
http://www.nyethermodynamics.com/
Gary
12-23-2002, 02:52 PM
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The only problem with the t58 [1350hp] is you need gear reduction 3-1 3.5-1 or so Howard Arenson builds a box but its not cheap. Also the exhaust elbow needs to be turned, which requires welding and some donor parts. If you can talk to Mike Fusco at Fuscos rental world in Fleminton nj. he may be able to supply a motor with correct exhaust pipe. Sorry I don't know his number. The motor with a gear box is quite long something like 84'' or 96'' or so. But very light for its power. Howard A. also makes motor mounts, throttle linkage alt and power sterring pump brackets and other needed acc. He or Ric would be very helpful.
good luck and have fun
Michael
good luck and have fun
Michael
03-31-2004, 04:14 PM
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hey guys...
Gary Anderson// We will have some LTS101 cores available in another few weeks if you are still interested.
pstorti// I was looking at putting turbines in that exact boat. What I came up with was a single 1500hp t-53 with a splitter box to two drives. A bit on the pricey side for most people..... but ya gotta do the math on cost of ownership...... like the man says... Turbines win.... every time.
Gary Anderson// We will have some LTS101 cores available in another few weeks if you are still interested.
pstorti// I was looking at putting turbines in that exact boat. What I came up with was a single 1500hp t-53 with a splitter box to two drives. A bit on the pricey side for most people..... but ya gotta do the math on cost of ownership...... like the man says... Turbines win.... every time.
03-31-2004, 04:17 PM
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03-31-2004, 11:28 PM
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Gary,
I have built 2 boats using the exact same engine. The engines max HP is 317, Typicaly the engine is run at about 270 Hp. This pushes the boats I built at 70 MPH or so. I know a guy who did a cat boat with this eng and he runs about 75.
It is the unique-ness of these engines that makes this kind of boat so interesting. The crowd my boat draws at the launch ramp is awesome, people love the sound of it and the flame show out of the tail pipe. It takes me an extra 30 mins to load it on the trailer because of the questions and people looking at it.
If your are looking for an "entry level" turbine boat , I am looking to sell mine. It is absolutely turn key ready to go. e mail me [email protected] or visit my site at www.turbineboat.com
Eric
I have built 2 boats using the exact same engine. The engines max HP is 317, Typicaly the engine is run at about 270 Hp. This pushes the boats I built at 70 MPH or so. I know a guy who did a cat boat with this eng and he runs about 75.
It is the unique-ness of these engines that makes this kind of boat so interesting. The crowd my boat draws at the launch ramp is awesome, people love the sound of it and the flame show out of the tail pipe. It takes me an extra 30 mins to load it on the trailer because of the questions and people looking at it.
If your are looking for an "entry level" turbine boat , I am looking to sell mine. It is absolutely turn key ready to go. e mail me [email protected] or visit my site at www.turbineboat.com
Eric
04-01-2004, 02:09 AM
#20
An alternative engine to consider is the Isotov GTD-350. 400 SHP @ 6000rpm, it's basically a russian copy of the Allison T63. I've seen a few for sale and they are a LOT cheaper than the T63. There's one for $1800 locally (In the UK), and there was a pair on e-bay recently for 2K each.
Kind Regards
Matt
Kind Regards
Matt
