puder

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=66185

ther eis some info on older fast scarabs. It was mentioned that an older 30 runngin 85 is "really wild"

paulr

Thanks for all the replys; part of the problem is I am trying to do the impossible: A fast, Cheap, Stable boat that can handle blue water. Therefore I have to compramise. Cheap is a requirement, so the fast and stable will probabily take some cuts. My old scarab did 80's with two rebuilt 454's (but those were built way too agressive and didn't last long), so I was thinking something in the 540-600 cid range with forced aspiration, but that will be a topic for discussion in the future. I don't want to cut every ounce out of the boat for a few MPH, I want a boat I can overnight in with the wife. I just registered to be a Platinum member a few hours ago; I will be able to download all the pretty pictures when that kicks in.
The only reason I am so interested in the scarab hull is the low price. The back end is cut for TRS drives the seller tells me, how hard would it be to get a bravo to fit (Or would I actually be better with the TRS?)
Thanks for all the information,
Paul

mcollinstn

The old TRS drives are a more rugged than a standard Bravo. Jury is out on whether they are more rugged than a BravoXR.

TRS requires transmissions inside the hull which pushes the motors forward a foot. This can eat up space you need to service the motors. Not sure about the space in your engine compartment.

If you are after bluewater reliability then look into some PSI pulse drives. Bulletproof. Cheaper than Bravo XR's if you're buying drives and transom assemblies...

540's or 572's won't need supercharging for 650 reliable hp (which is more than either TRS drives or Bravos can handle for any significant length of time).

You keep mentioning stability. Most of the performance vee hulls you would otherwise consider will share the 8' beam of the two hulls you are looking at. I am having trouble following your thoughts on stability.

Ride? Comfort? Those are dependent more on length in a bigwater veehull - and the related ability to "bridge" wave crests. A 30'er is a 30'er. It's going to pound you more than a 42 but less than a 27.

If structurally sound, the Scarab hull and the Fountain hull will both be "safe" from the standpoint of whether they will break in half or not in the ocean.

Now, if you are telling us that you plan to drop a pair of supercharged 572's into a 30' deep vee and run it wide open thru big water, then I'm not going to feel comfortable telling you that it will stay in one piece.

Course, your broken back and collarbones will more likely than not convince you to back off the sticks before the hull breaks in half so I reckon it's a moot point...

paulr

Thanks for the information. Regarding the "stability", I currently have a 26' Chris-Craft, and that thing rocks and pounds infinitely more then my old 30' scarab ever did, so I asumed if 4' could make that much difference the 3' between the scarab hull and the fountain 10 meter (around 33 feet?) might have a similar effect. Maby it's operator error / hull design / lack of counter-rotation / something else, but I presumed it to be the length difference.

With the horsepower, most of my operation is on the moulth of the Caloosahatchee river in Florida and the Gulf of Mexico - close to the shore going up and down Florida. My primary concern is being able to go fast in these calmer waters (80-110 mph, depending on hull / money). However, it would be nice to be able to make occasional trips to the Bahamas and the Keys / Tortugas, albeit not at 80-110 mph - just a way to get the wife on the boat, etc. Even 30 would be fine in medium-large seas, as long as the boat wouldn't roll / flip / break in half.

I would love to be able to get a hull in the 35-45' range, but my current lift and dock would need to be redone, not to mention the increased cost of a hull that big (and the gas consumed to power it). Besides, I couldn't store a trailer that big at my work, where I have kept trailers before.

The biggest constant is the length of the hull, due to the said constrictions. It would be easier for me to get #6 drives and supercharged 572's instead of TRS's and 454's then to get a 38' hull instead of a 30'. The more expensive drive would be essentally transparent to my wife, whereas the bigger lift would involve heavy machinery in the back yard....

With the TRS versus bravo drives, I have never mounted an entire drive assembly, my old Scarab already had drives. The holes on the back of the scarab hull I am looking at are for TRS (so the engine mounts probabily are too) - would going to a bravo or those PSI pulse drives involve re-glassing the back ?

Thanks again for all the replies I've gotten so far
Paul

mcollinstn

The fountain 10 meter doesn't have a lot more hull than the Scarab.

If speeds over 80 are in your plans, then you have no choice. The Fountain is the better hull of the two you mentioned.

The Fountain, though, (correct me if I'm wrong) has a delta pad and a notched transom. The notched transom reduces the running length of the hull. The delta pad makes a flat pad on the rear section of the hull. The shorter running surface will not bridge waves as well. The delta pad will make "landing" off of waves much less cushy. (be aware though that a "flat" attitude across wave crests will not jar you as badly in either hull).

#6 drives will run you in the neighborhood of $35,000 each. I cannot imagine that you would decide it to be wise to invest that kind of hardware into an elderly hull such as these. A SSM3 is a much better and more affordable option.

Any drives other than TRS will require complete plugging and reglassing of the transom (which is no big deal).

Side to side stability of these hulls will be better than your 26 simply due to their increased mass and more wetted hull surface (longer lifting strakes will dampen side to side better). In any vee however, countersteering will be your best weapon against side to side nausea.

m

PatriYacht

My 78 Scarab would go 72 with twin 420's that i had put in. I ran the old log exaust manifolds. Better exaust probably would've seen 75. The boat weighed 6800 dry. Not too heavy for boats of that era. It handled like a wheel barrow because of the cheap stock steering. If you want to go fast in anything, you have to use hydraulic steering.

Going 100 in this boat wouldn't be too hard. a pair of 800's, a pair of speedy 3's, and a set of hydraulic steering. All of that stuff is not cheap and you would probably find it in a used Fountain 10 meter cheaper. There are a few outfitted like that floating around.

Gary Anderson

That's an old boat. Expect to replace all electrical, hudraulics, etc. And the scarabs were known for transom rot. The amount of hp to get it near the speed you want will cost more than you expect,.
My advise for a 100mph stable boat.
Get a 30' Chris Cat. Solid construction, fast hull, reasonable price. Twin 500-600 hp motors with TRS or SSM IIs or IIIs should get you there for a lot less than any V hull.
Gary

paulr

Thanks,
The biggest problem I've had with going to a cat is the lack of cabin. Even the smallest V hull has a place to store gear / sleep / etc - but I don't know if even the biggest cat's have cabins. I don't want a houseboat, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here, but I do want something where me and my wife could sleep / eat / etc - when the need arises. If anyone knows of any other hulls for sale that meet my requirements - deep V 30-34 feet, fast, and oceanworthy, please let me know - the only reason I've limited myself to the Scarab and the Fountain is those are the only hulls I've seen for sale. I've gotten several other suggestions for hulls on my previous post, but finding one for sale is challenge. I also don't want to spend $30k or $40k on a complete boat just to re-do everything.

Does anyone know where I could get a SSM II / III drive (other than the classifieds)? I've found numerous places selling rebuilt / used / new Bravo's, but not any SSM drives. I'd prefer used / rebuilt drives, for obvious reasons. I've checked the classifieds, and there are some SSM III / IV's for sale, but no price given. Would XZ drives be comprable? There is a pair for sale in the classified section for $7k, $3500 per drive seems like a good deal to me. There are also some #5's on there, but I don't know if i have $18k for just drives.
Thanks,
Paul

mcollinstn

If you honestly plan to run 750 hp thru drives in the ocean, then XZ's are NOT the answer.

SSM3's are around, and if you need some with somebody to stand behind them contact sterndrivespec or Marc at Bam.

I believe the Chris cat was available with a cabin.

The 36 Talon/Hustler has a cool midcabin behind the rear bench seat.

The 32 American Offshore(is that the right boat?) does too.

The 42 MTI has a Hyuuuuugge Cabin. Queen bed. Standup bathroom with makeup mirror,etc.. Dual side by side Barcaloungers in the "rec room".

Can't get one for $40k though.

There are some sweet boats out there ready to go for reasonable money - just ask Cuda.

paulr

42' is kind of large, but if I could sell my wife on it (See "Flipping boats" post), I might be able to pull off the extra $$ and the lift changes. Still a back-up plan as of now, as the canals where I live are only 50' (+/-) wide, and it would take more time / money / hastle. If it could accomodate two / three people sleeping with some sort of sitting / eating area, it just might work. when you say over $40k, you're talking just the hull, right?

It's a good suggestion, but for the short term, the Deep-V still looks the most promising (and affordable)

Thanks,
Paul