formula31

I did mine last year. After I got everything out and clean to the outer skin, i made templates out of cardboard, then cheap 1/4" ply and made sure it fot perfect before I cut the good expensive stuff. I used west system and pulled it in to the glass with through bolts until it was solid. Used some triaxial cloth I had around on the inside and tabbed to the stringers and hull sides with Kevlar. All with west system and so far so good. BTW, I know nothing about fiberglass and hated every minute of it.

I actually found my problem the hard way. Did a stern landing off a wave and one k-plane ripped right off and darn near sunk me.

Audiofn

What I did with my transom was to put Cabosile (micro balloons) into the resin and made up a paste. I used a notched trowel like you use to spread tile morter to spread out the paiste onto the two pieces of wood. I then through bolted it as Formula is suggesting. Use the bolt holes for your transom plate. You NEED to make sure when you pull it together that you do not distort your transome. If you put a straite edge along you transom you will probably find that it is NOT straite. Most are not even if they look it.

Jon

bford1

Man, I feel for you Bryan. It also scares the hell out of me. My Formula 357 is an '85 model and I have nightmares about finding something similar. I've been watching Jon's stringer replacement thread and there is no way I have that kind of patience. I would have taken that chainsaw and done the Texas Chainsaw Massacre dance all over the boat about 1/2 way through the project.

Formula 31 I'm glad you came out of that okay. I guess you were still able to drive back to port? That's scary.

So, what is it that causes the transoms to rot? Is it just age? Or, is it water migration from an improperly sealed through bolt? Or, not enough care taken at the factory to properly glass it all in or a combination?

Also, just wondering how old these boats are. I think Jon's was a '82??? Bryan - yours was an '84. Formula 31 - how about yours?

bryanspeedracer

Formula31- That is a rough story. I'd like to avoid sinking...

Jon- How did you keep the transom sraight. I thought about putting a straight edge of some sort along the back and then putting mild pressure along it. The point would be to try and duplicate the molds integrity. Worth it, not worth it? Also, where do I cut the outer edge? I thought about one inch from the hullsides.

bford1- I know people that have boats older than all of ours with no rot just as we all heard of people with newer boats that have rot.

I just had an estimate (over the phone, mind you) of between 2k-3k. Having someone else do it would be easier but I simply won't pay that kind of money for this job.

If anyone wants to watch, they are more than welcome to come over as I tackle this. This weekend it will begin.

bford1

Bryan -

My hats off to you. I'd have to fork out the 3k. I have too many other projects and too little patience.

Best of luck with it. Please take pics. We'd love to see. Jon's experience has taught me (and others I'm sure) a lot. Thanks for all of the pics Jon. (By the way I don't think i need those orange buttons anymore as I found another solution.)

Brent

Zanie

Hey Bryan,
My 1984 Excalibur 31 needs a transom too. It's nearly the same boat, really. (pad bottom notched transom)

Mine was soft in a few different places, around the drives, around one of the tabs. Half of my Gimbal retaining studs (thru the transom) were rotted and two to nearly less than 1/4 inch (from 7/16)!

I contemplated doing it, but I'm getting tired of learning how do stuff. (Man, I sound old!) I can paint, I can weld, I can assemble engines, I can assemble transmissions. I know if I learn to replace a transom, I'll never want to do it again. So I can't justify the learning curve.
I'm comfortible doing the glasswork, but I can only do it in 4 hour stints. How many times am I gonna have to be itchy? I watched 'em do it on Shipshape TV and it took 'em a week to remove all the old wood from the transom!

I found a guy to do it for a reasonable price and I can offset the cash outlay by doing side work at my buddies garage. I'd rather be greasy than itchy.

I admire you for tackling the job! I'm sure the guy I'm paying won't do it exactly the way I would, but he guarantees his work for 5 years.

As long as the holes in the transom need to be recut, I'm converting to Bravos, before Merc stops making all the TRS stuff.

Good Luck!
DS

madbouyz

Bryan ,

won't contest what's been said already but I don't think anyone's covered your question about material...
I've just done the transom in my 'baby' as part of complete hull/deck/cockpit removal resto. I've used all epoxy .. NO polyester resin anywhere. This is what the pros all recommend for 'older' boat work nowadays it seems.
Epoxy costs a fortune compared to regular fiberglass resin but it's infinitely stronger.. it's grip on the original glass is mindblowing. Plus you can do so much more with it.. turn it into micro baloon paste/lightweight fillers and a bulletproof glue.
I would'nt use anything else now .. besides if you already have the tools needed and a working familiarity with the nature of the job you can do it as well/better than someone else. I think I've saved $5000 on the transom alone,, that buys a lot of epoxy resin

Gary Anderson

Good advise here. I second Jons recommendation of the paste. Using it eliminates voids. Just try to bolt a transom assembly over a section with an air pocket, CRACK!
Use a couple 2 X 4s on the outside, thru bolt to the plywood inside and you'll have a strait solid transom.
Everyone says epoxy is better, but also harder to use and more expensive. I've only done polyester resin.
Gary

madbouyz

Gary, the only practical disadvantage to epoxy that I've found is that depending on your choice of hardener (fast/standard/slow) you might have to time your next lot of work accordingly. It is actually much easier to use than fiberglass resin ..I find..
A friend who assisted me a bit in recoring cockpit sole and transom re-instal had extensive experience in regular resin and never seen epoxy before... he says he'll never use fiberglass resin for his personal work again... of course I was footing the bill for what we were using so we'll see when it's his turn

Audiofn

Ok interesting argument brewing hear.

Epoxy bonding strength the best by far 2000 PSI of strength

Vinnylester: Next best thing for bonding about 700PSI of strength.

Polyester: Least strength bonds at about 200 PSI

Epoxy is MUCH more expensive then Vinnylester or Polyester. It is thicker then the esters thus making it very slow to soak into the glass. I ussually soak it down and then go back later after it has had some time to sit. IMO there is NO reason to use epoxy in a transom replacement job IF you can get Vinnylester. The Vinnylester will give you the advantages of BOTH epoxy and polyester. The holding power is better then what they used at the factory so this is really a non issue. The other advantage of Vinnylester is you have a two day window of opportunity that you can get a chemical bond to later layers of glass. So if you run out of time after you get one layer on then as long as the next layer goes on withing 48 hours you DO NOT have to sand. The top layer of the Vinnylester will stay tacky so I ussually top coat but since you are probably going to gell coat after this is a non issue. Vinnylester is aprox. 145 bucks for a 5 gallon pail. Plan on using damn near 5 gallons. This will cost you aprox 350 or so in Epoxy at leaste. With Vinnylester you can adjust the pot life a little (not much but some). With Epoxy you have VERY limited window to get the material on as the stuff kicks by volume. In otherwords it will harden in the cup WAY before it will cure on the boat. When working with Epoxy you need to get the material out of the cup and onto the boat as fast as you can. Use a roller to roll out any air bubbles. If you want to go with Vinnylester and you can not find any then call me tomarrow and I can get some shipped out to you via UPS. You will have to get the MEKP hardeners local as that can not go UPS. Epoxy also has the advantage of being a LOT less smelly. So if you are doing this in a adjoining garage and you do not want a divorce that is your only hope. The hull and parts NEED to be at least 60 degrees for a good cure and bond. I NEVER mix up more then a quart of material at a time. It is hard to get any more then that out at one time.

To cut out the transome I ussually use a sawzall. Get a couple blades as you will find that different blades will work in different areas. Take the thing apart layer by layer. So only cut through the glass and take that off. Then the next layer of wood and so on. By taking off the wood the transom will not likely distort. It is when you go to bend the wood back in that you may have that problem IF the transom is curved like mine was. I just did a dry run with all my stuff like that first to make sure I knew what my and everyone elses jobs were, but also so that I could see if I was going to have a problem. If you have a lot of curve then you may have to curfe (cut slots) in the wood to help it bend eisier. Don't worry if you do, the paste will fill that up and it wil be PLENTY strong.
Back to cutting out the transome material. You will likely be able to get most of it out fairly quickly. I use a air gasket scraper that my brother had that worked the NUTS for getting the rest of it off. I then used a grinder with 36 grit to roughen up all the surfaces and get rid of the old tabbing.
I then glassed in the transom layers as per factory. When you take out the old glass save some and go to your supplyer and they will be able to match it up for you. If it is the thickly woven stuff then make sure the new glass has mat on the back of it. This will help a TON in bonding. If you can not get that then get some thin mat to glass in first, then the woven stuff, then matt, then the woven stuff again. Cut all your glass first and test fit it. Buy a pair of scissors that WILL get ruined and make sure they are decent ones. Home Depot has a deal for 2 scissors for like 14 bucks. These work well. Once you have everything test fit and ready to go then mix up some resin and paint all the mateing surfaces with resin. I just use the ell cheapo paint brushes that you get at home depot. I find the 3" brushes to be the most versatile but you may want to go with 4's or ever 6's for this job. Then have your micro ballon/cabocill paste and spread that on. You can mix up the micro balloon paste prior to adding the hardener so you have time to get everything set up. Then bolt everything in place. If you get that far this weekend you are doing well. I will fill you in with more info as you get there.

Oh ya make sure you try and work as CLEAN as you can. It is MUCH easier to keep it clean then clean it up after you make a mess. If you spill some on the floor then use you paint brush to get it up.

Jon