Engine Upgrade For A 502 Mag 2001 Powerquest
06-25-2004, 03:02 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Engine Upgrade For A 502 Mag 2001 Powerquest
[COLOR=Purple][COLOR=Purple][COLOR=Purple]HEY ENGINE GUYS WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST FIX FOR SPEED ON A 502 MAG 2001 POWERQUEST RUNS 68 I WANT MORE!!!!! ( PRO CHARGER )
( WHIPPLE ) OR WHAT ??? CAMS LIFTERS, ROCKERS WHAT HELP ME PLEASE. ALL INFO HELPFUL. THANKS IN ADVANCE
michael
LAKE CUMBERLAND
( WHIPPLE ) OR WHAT ??? CAMS LIFTERS, ROCKERS WHAT HELP ME PLEASE. ALL INFO HELPFUL. THANKS IN ADVANCE
michael
LAKE CUMBERLAND
06-25-2004, 03:46 PM
#3
Re: Engine Upgrade For A 502 Mag 2001 Powerquest
The Whipple is a nice setup. The Whipple on my 502 MPI Formula 271 Fastech gained me 13 mph top end and a lot of mid range acceleration. It idles like it did when it was stock. I would only recommend it though if you are willing to NOT cut corners on the install. There are plenty of threads on this forum addressing just what that means. I am still working out the bugs two months after my install.....mostly because the shop that installed it didn't follow through with a good job. If you do it yourself, plan on spending around $9k to cover any needed head work, head gaskets, gauges, and finally...a new prop. If you are clearing 68 mph now, throw in an extra $2k for external steering for the 80+ mph that you will be doing.
One more thought when choosing a supercharger. I purchased my Whipple back in February. Dustin Whipple still responds via e-mail, usually within a day or two, with detailed answers to my technical questions. A++ customer service after the sale.
Greg
One more thought when choosing a supercharger. I purchased my Whipple back in February. Dustin Whipple still responds via e-mail, usually within a day or two, with detailed answers to my technical questions. A++ customer service after the sale.
Greg
06-25-2004, 11:13 PM
#4
Registered
Re: Engine Upgrade For A 502 Mag 2001 Powerquest
Your question is somewhat loaded because there is very little back to back performance testing of the different supercharging systems being reported in the media. Everyone has different criteria for judging what is the "best" system. Speed gains are the most objective way, as long as you are aware of the other limitations of a particular system.
The Whipple fans are always quick to jump in, because they are happy customers; Whipple has worked for and deserves their good reputation. Many, maybe most Procharger guys will tell you how much they had to do themselves to get the system to work right. That reputation may also deserved, but in the final analysis you get what you pay for. Vortech came to the marine supercharging party a little late, and don't get a lot of coverage one way or the other.
Vortech makes a nice setup for a stock 502 Mag that retains the stock injectors and fuel system. A reprogrammed ECU and booster pump make it a simple installation and power goes from 415 to 570. This should get you 10-12 mph. If you go beyond this you need to change injectors and fuel pumps; an extra cost.
The Whipple is usually 13-15 mph as stated above. Be aware that the screw compressor makes tremendous cylinder pressure at low RPM and both head gaskets and drives can pay the price. It is very common for guys with Whipples to use only 1/4 throttle to get on plane. Be careful.
Procharger claims about 20 mph. The kits are relatively cheap, but do not include injectors or a reprogrammed ECU, just an adjustable fuel pressure unit that is usually replaced after a while with bigger injectors and a reprogrammed ECU.
IMHO Procharger is the best bang for the buck, but lots of stuff is missing for a properly tuned system. Whipple has the best bolt on package because you basically swap intake manifolds; it comes with it's own injectors and ECU. Vortech has the best engineered stuff and systems are much more complete than Procharger.
Finally there is a small company called Rtech Performance
. When we add our supercoolers to Procharger or Vortech superchargers we can make more power than any of the above. You can say that I am biased of course, but I've got the dyno sheets and magazine articles to prove it.
There is a certain Baja 250 that went from 57 mph to 77 mph with an M-1 Procharger kit. After we replaced the Procharger intercooler with an Rtech supercooler the boat went 85 mph. Going from 57 to 85 on a single engine vee hull is a huge jump, but I wouldn't recommend adding this much power unless the engine was fresh and some of the parts were upgraded.
Finally, Grog is right, there are other related expenses to make the whole project safe and reliable. Good luck!
The Whipple fans are always quick to jump in, because they are happy customers; Whipple has worked for and deserves their good reputation. Many, maybe most Procharger guys will tell you how much they had to do themselves to get the system to work right. That reputation may also deserved, but in the final analysis you get what you pay for. Vortech came to the marine supercharging party a little late, and don't get a lot of coverage one way or the other.
Vortech makes a nice setup for a stock 502 Mag that retains the stock injectors and fuel system. A reprogrammed ECU and booster pump make it a simple installation and power goes from 415 to 570. This should get you 10-12 mph. If you go beyond this you need to change injectors and fuel pumps; an extra cost.
The Whipple is usually 13-15 mph as stated above. Be aware that the screw compressor makes tremendous cylinder pressure at low RPM and both head gaskets and drives can pay the price. It is very common for guys with Whipples to use only 1/4 throttle to get on plane. Be careful.
Procharger claims about 20 mph. The kits are relatively cheap, but do not include injectors or a reprogrammed ECU, just an adjustable fuel pressure unit that is usually replaced after a while with bigger injectors and a reprogrammed ECU.
IMHO Procharger is the best bang for the buck, but lots of stuff is missing for a properly tuned system. Whipple has the best bolt on package because you basically swap intake manifolds; it comes with it's own injectors and ECU. Vortech has the best engineered stuff and systems are much more complete than Procharger.
Finally there is a small company called Rtech Performance
. When we add our supercoolers to Procharger or Vortech superchargers we can make more power than any of the above. You can say that I am biased of course, but I've got the dyno sheets and magazine articles to prove it.There is a certain Baja 250 that went from 57 mph to 77 mph with an M-1 Procharger kit. After we replaced the Procharger intercooler with an Rtech supercooler the boat went 85 mph. Going from 57 to 85 on a single engine vee hull is a huge jump, but I wouldn't recommend adding this much power unless the engine was fresh and some of the parts were upgraded.
Finally, Grog is right, there are other related expenses to make the whole project safe and reliable. Good luck!
06-28-2004, 11:32 AM
#7
Registered
Re: Engine Upgrade For A 502 Mag 2001 Powerquest
Any device that increases the density of air entering the engine is a "supercharger". There are two main types: positive displacement and centrifugal.
Positive displacement superchargers, like the traditional Roots blower (BDS, Holley/Weiand and many others) have two identical rotors spinning in a large case. Each rotation of the rotors moves a fixed amount of air. If the rotors are moving more air than the engine underneath is moving with its pistons (engines are also positive displacement pumps) then the air pressure and density must go up in the intake manifold between the blower and the engine. This forces more air into the engine which equals more power if you add the right amount of extra fuel. Screw compressors like Whipple and PSI look somewhat similar, but have a male and female rotor and are much more efficient than Roots blowers. Depending on blower size and pulley ratios, rotors may spin at 5-10,000 RPM.
Centrifugal compressors like Procharger, Paxton, Powerdyne and Vortech, increase air density by rapidly accelerating the air entering the supercharger inlet with an impeller that may spin as much as 40-50,000 rpm. This air is then slowed down within the compressor housing and ducting as smoothly as possible so that the kinetic energy added by the impeller is converted into pressure. Unlike positive displacement superchargers, centrifugals spinning at a certain RPM can provide a wide range of air flow, depending on the resistance to air flow in downstream ducting. This property is exploited by the Rtech supercooler, which greatly reduces the resistance to air flow of the intercooler setup which is always part of a marine supercharging system. More flow equals more power.
Another advantage of the centrifugal is that its compact size allows packaging on the engine in a way that makes room for a huge intercooler. This advantage is not enjoyed by the positive displacement superchargers because the way that they are packaged on the engine leaves room for only a small intercooler. This limits the amount of HP that can be safely delivered.
Comparing the HP curves of the two shows the positive displacement supercharger with more boost and HP at low RPM, and the centrifugal compressor with more boost and HP at high RPM. Hit the throttle at cruising speed (3000-3500 RPM) and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Once again there is almost no performance data on back to back tests with different systems in the same boat.
Do some searching on this website and you can quickly educate yourself on this subject and read about other members' actual experiences. This is better than relying on the claims in advertising. For more technical data on the supercooler check out our website at www.rtechperformance.com.
Positive displacement superchargers, like the traditional Roots blower (BDS, Holley/Weiand and many others) have two identical rotors spinning in a large case. Each rotation of the rotors moves a fixed amount of air. If the rotors are moving more air than the engine underneath is moving with its pistons (engines are also positive displacement pumps) then the air pressure and density must go up in the intake manifold between the blower and the engine. This forces more air into the engine which equals more power if you add the right amount of extra fuel. Screw compressors like Whipple and PSI look somewhat similar, but have a male and female rotor and are much more efficient than Roots blowers. Depending on blower size and pulley ratios, rotors may spin at 5-10,000 RPM.
Centrifugal compressors like Procharger, Paxton, Powerdyne and Vortech, increase air density by rapidly accelerating the air entering the supercharger inlet with an impeller that may spin as much as 40-50,000 rpm. This air is then slowed down within the compressor housing and ducting as smoothly as possible so that the kinetic energy added by the impeller is converted into pressure. Unlike positive displacement superchargers, centrifugals spinning at a certain RPM can provide a wide range of air flow, depending on the resistance to air flow in downstream ducting. This property is exploited by the Rtech supercooler, which greatly reduces the resistance to air flow of the intercooler setup which is always part of a marine supercharging system. More flow equals more power.
Another advantage of the centrifugal is that its compact size allows packaging on the engine in a way that makes room for a huge intercooler. This advantage is not enjoyed by the positive displacement superchargers because the way that they are packaged on the engine leaves room for only a small intercooler. This limits the amount of HP that can be safely delivered.
Comparing the HP curves of the two shows the positive displacement supercharger with more boost and HP at low RPM, and the centrifugal compressor with more boost and HP at high RPM. Hit the throttle at cruising speed (3000-3500 RPM) and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Once again there is almost no performance data on back to back tests with different systems in the same boat.
Do some searching on this website and you can quickly educate yourself on this subject and read about other members' actual experiences. This is better than relying on the claims in advertising. For more technical data on the supercooler check out our website at www.rtechperformance.com.
Last edited by tomcat; 06-28-2004 at 11:40 AM.
