Liberator21

Wow!

Andy Buzz

Blah, Blah, Blah....Blah, Blah, Blah Blah! I see that your 4 days of experience as a registered user has been serving you well! You spent your time projecting your opinions as being factual and correct and state that mine are what your assume to be my sales soapbox. Never once have I slammed any idea, product or manufacturer discussed here on this thread. Merely, did I make a mistake and as to state what my experience has shown me over the past 22 years. You, however, have chosen to slam every thing that I have said as being a mere sales pitch.

I indeed have verifiable information and a legitamate company that I am NOT at all ashamed of...

You, on the otherhand, claim to have all of this "worldly" experience in the marine security business - - And this may be true, however, OSO members can not see any validity or crediblity to this testament, as again, you have 4 days experience as a registered user.

Never did I say you were wrong and that I was right - - nor, did I make this to be personal...but, again, I have nothing to hide - - I am just providing information that people might view as valuable.

As a successful business owner, I have nothing to hide, so, here the link to my wesite www.buzz-off.com and for those in seeing my Satisfactory Rating at the BBB - - http://www.clearwater.bbb.org/common...l?bid=22000609.

I am posting here because I have passion for the industry and hope to provide knowledge with what I know that might be of some use for fellow OSO members. Besides, if I was only interested in pedeling a car alarm , I could find much easier avenues in which I can capture a much wider audience... Many OSO members have benefitted from my advice in marine security, audio and home theater products and have become satisfied customers.

I extend my offer to assist fellow OSO members, if I can provide you with any advice that my 22 years of business in security and audio can provide, please feel free to contact me.

Andy Buzz
Buzz-Off Alarm Systems
Maximum Audio

rickcurtis

Here is the correct link:

http://www.clearwater.bbb.org/common...l?bid=22000609

rickcurtis

http://www.clearwater.bbb.org/
commonreport.html?bid=22000609

baja2700

Andy and Rick...
There is nothing I enjoy more than two competant individuals bantering back and forth. but before I decide who is right and who is wrong let me put my .02 cents in. Before I go any farther let me tell you a couple of things.
1. I have been in 12volt consumer electronics for 27 years.
2. I have an electrical engineering degree from U of Michigan
3. I am not asian!!!!!!!
Back in the early eighties there were a number of car security manufacturers in the U.S.. Crimestopper,Code Alarm, Clifford, Ungo Box, Maxiguard, Chapman, VSE were all good products that did what they were supposed to do-protect the vehicle. Unfortunately the technology had not changed for years and all of a sudden there were a half a dozen Italian alarm companies (Dalme, Piranha, Serpico, Ranger, Elsar, Doberman) that were producing remote control alarm system that were years ahead of the key pad systems that the US had been manufacturing. This gave the U.S. guys a kick in the ass they needed and everyone of these companies got on the remote control bandwagon and within three years all the Italian manufacturers were gone. Now down in Florida a retailer (Steve Zabuliski) was bringing in a car alarm from Taiwan under his own name and it was called Titan. Another person in Ohio Darrell Issa was bringing in the same product under the name Viper by Directed Electronics. Darrel was interested in the product on a national level and Steve was using it for his retail store so Darrel convinced Charles Chin the owner of Nu Tech the manufacturer to give him an exclusive and the rest is history. Well there is something that did happen. Audiovox,Magnadyne, Directed Electronics and a couple of others all have their product built by Nu Tech in Taiwan. The failure rate on this product is about as good as it can get and over the past 20 years I have seen this little operation that started in Ohio grow to be one of the largest security companies on the Planet. Directed electronics owns Clifford, Avital, Viper , Hornet, Steal stopper, Automate,Valet,python, rattler,sidewinder etc. Audiovox owns Code alarm and Chapman. Howard Miller still owns Crimestopper.Ungo box is owned by Clarion and is designed by Directed Electronics. By far and away the majority of car alarms are now and have been produced in Taiwan. The only company that I know that builds car security in this country is JBS Technology (Bulldog) in Ohio. More and more manufacturing jobs are being done in China, we build DVD players there. We build them for a variety of companies like Toshiba, RCA and Initial because labor is very inexpensive and its what we have to do to compete. The Chinese are becoming very strong as they go through there industrial revolution and comapnies like GM are investing a ton to build plants there. Rick I agree with you we have lost allot of jobs to asia but when retailers sell you the optional warranty it is because they make a huge profit from it. Many manufacturers have to back up the product way past the warranty period because the big box retailers are going to send it back under warranty anyway or they won't pay there bill.Twenty years ago a 19" TV was 250.00 its still the same price today. We all like that but to be able to do that we needed to find cheap labor. If we built 19" TV's here they would be $500.00 and everyone would ***** about the price and buy the Toshiba, Sony, RCA becasue it was cheaper.
The only industry where we are world class is in areospace technology, design and manufacturing. Now here is a little food for thought. Labor in China is cheap. Hand laid boat hulls are very labor intensive. Hmmn if we built boats there the price would be 30% less. I wonder if Brunswick is over there right now?
Good luck to both of you and remember we are all on the same team!

baja2700

Rick one other thought on the 11.00 alarm
Here is a basic breakdown
alarm brain with 4 relays on board $11.00 deduct 1.00 for every relay
harness $1.85-3.10 depends on length and gauge of wire, fuse size.
2 button remote control $2.40 each with battery
overide switch .40 each
LED indicater .25
siren 6 tone 3.25 each
pin switches .27 each ....optional
butt connectors .01 each ......optional
extra range antenna.... optional
package with instruction manual 1.45
The FOB cost for a high end alarm is about $23.50 FOB Taiwan.Yes there are less expensive models and even here I have shown how to save 4.00 just by removing on board relays.
The Freight, duties etc run about 3.00 now your at $26.00
The factory has to work on 30% margin to cover costs and now your at $37.35. The factory sells this in some cases to a distributor who marks it up 20% and now its up to $46.62
The distributor sells it to you local retailer who marks it up 40% and now its $79.95 plus labor. 2 hours labor at $50.00-65.00 per hour now its $179.00 to $209.00 installed.
Now before anyone thinks the dealers are getting rich consider the following
Good sales people and installers are hard to find and they get paid top dollar. advertising, workmans comp., phone, electric, advertising, insurance, water, gas, lost sales to the internet, and warranty eat a ton out of the profit.

rickcurtis

Baja,

You, obviously, are very knowledgable in that marketplace. There is, however, a flaw in your statement about a US produced TV costing $500.00 and the implication that no one would buy it. I would buy it. Not based on any national bias, but simply because I have alot of experience (personal and business) in "out-sourced" products failing. A recent example (of many); I purchased a Sony DVD. It was the most expensive offered. It failed after about 6 months. What a surprise to find that the warranty (parts and labor) was only 90 days. I am now in the market for a 50" plasma and am scared to death to invest high 4 figures without buying the $500 extended warranty.

My point is simple. Car alarms are designed for use on cars in a "land" environment. They don't work real well in even that environment. I can't remember the last time I walked out of the mall when there wasn't a car alarm sounding (from false alarm) that NO ONE pays attention to anymore. It seems to me that if the price is comparable, or even a little more, that the prudent boat owner, wishing to protect his investment, would purchase a product designed for a boat and manufactured in the U.S.

You were very careful in your post to avoid expressing an opinion on this subject. I'm curious as to what your learned opinion is.

baja2700

Rick,
I have a tip for you DON"T buy plasma. plasma has a great picture but LCD is the future and its coming on strong.
Plasma has some inheirent issues
1. It builds up allot of heat
2. it will only last half as long as LCD and the pitcure quality reall starts to fade after 5 years of use.
3. It consumes three times as much power as an LCD.
You'll notice that the price of plasma is dropping, if you can wait a little longer you will be happier with LCD.

One other point on products
whether its built in the US or in Asia the parts cost the same. when you purchase resistors,IC's, diodes etc there is no cost savings. The only difference is the labor to manufacturer goods. People in China that do assembly typically get paid about $50.00 per month. most live in dorms right at the factory and their meals and uniforms are provided. They normally work from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. six days per week and get Sundays off. Even though companies could use automated insertion devices they are very expensive to maintain and after doing a cost analysis it is still less money to build in Asia or India and bring the product in by ship. I for one would like to do more manufacturing in the U.S. My company still builds woofers in S. California because the shipping weight of the items makes it cost effective. My last thought is thats its a global economy and we need to find manufacturing methods to gain an edge.
I did not mean to offend you saying that you would not buy the product. Its just that the many people out there shop strickly on price and price alone. Most figure if it last for 90 days it will work for 10 years. I am not a fan of having to "PAY" for an extended warranty but big box retailers like automotive companies make a fortune selling them. Its basically pure profit some companies even spiff the sales people for selling them.

security systems
I designed security systems for Clifford, Delta Electronica of Varese Italy AKA Cobra car alarms and Massive security. A quick note security systems in Europe have to have 3 areas to disable the vehicle before they get an insurance discount. Fuel, starter, and ignition interups-they are real serious about theft over there. The biggest problem with security is the sensors-this is what causes 90% of false alarms. The other 9% is typically bad installations or defective product 1%. I personally like systems that do not have a current sense feature or use inexpensive shock or motion sensor technology. I prefer systems that trigger with a solid ground pulse like when a snap switch, mat switch or door is open. Marine security needs to have the circuit boards conformal coated and all connections should be soldiered and encased in shrink tubing. You can buy conformal coating spray its about 10.00 and one can can do about 25 alarm boards. did you know that the design is basically the same for all security systems whether its for home, business ,car or marine. A processor is on guard and looks for an input. once the processor sees this it send an output to a siren, horn,lights,pager,telephone interface etc.Most systems are designed to run on 12volts-yes even the home systems with battery backup usually the battery is 12 volts.The car systems usually use a mil spec circuit board, most home and business sytems use a cheaper single sided board. Home and business systems don't have the enviormental and temperature issues that car and boats have. so now here is my answer to the 64,000.00 dollar question...can you use a car alarm in a boat? my answer is
yes provided the brain is conformal coated. Be careful not to coat any expossed relay contacts on the board. Even if your located in Kansas install the brain in an area where water can't come in contact with the circuit board. Fuse all power input and output connections. If you don't have a clue what you are doing seek out a professional that knows boats!
Good luck with your projects!

Gary Anderson

BTW,
$19.95 for a PIR at Radio Shack. With an RF remote to activate/deactivate!
Supposed to work up to 122 degrees.
What the hell, I'll see if it works.
Gary

Liberator21

Sure!
Do what I did. I used a cheap PIR, and a Page Alert alarm. I got the Page Alert at a swapmeet for 5 bucks, took it apart and sprayed the board with conformal coat (GC Electronics brand), put it back together, and it does the job for me
Baja2700, I agree with you on the plasma tv. I've worked in consumer electronics service for a long time, and I won't touch one!