A question for all
10-31-2007, 08:09 AM
#11
I spent the whole last season doing research and a lot of testing to dial my boat in perfect, when I should of spent more time and technology coming up with ways to cheat I think it would of been more profitable and marketable to more racers that want to win.
10-31-2007, 12:12 PM
#14
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THERE IS A SIMPLE SULUTION TO THIS PROBLEM....
THE RULE SHOULD BE:
IF YOU ARE CAUGHT CHEATING WEATHER IN THE GRAY AREA OR NOT...
THE RACERS AND THE BOAT IS BANNED FOR RACING FOR 2 YEARS FROM THE TIME OF OFFENSE...
YOU WILL FIND OUT THE TEAMS THAT DON'T CHEAT WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS RULE AND THE TEAMS THAT LIKE TO RACE IN THE GRAY AREA WILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT...
This way the owner is stuck with a boat he can't sell it to be raced and the racers are done...
When you talk about finding things in the gray area....all that comes down to is the team that has the most money can go out and pay to have the advantage...and it dose nothing good for the sport....
I think that's why Factory racing was so big and compeditive.....the boats had a hymoligation rule...teams were not able to cut decks down and change there design ever 6 months..and to not having there drive configuration being changed buy allowing the drive to be surfaced a little...
Other then putting on hood scoops to get the approprate air to a engine to keep it cool and changes for safety reasons that all boats can make....there should be no changes to be made to any boat....if the big money teams like that kind of stuff...more power to them...let them do what they want...
But for the smaller teams let it come down to the racers....
testing is good...but it should be for testing legal props changing X's and moving weight around...
THE RULE SHOULD BE:
IF YOU ARE CAUGHT CHEATING WEATHER IN THE GRAY AREA OR NOT...
THE RACERS AND THE BOAT IS BANNED FOR RACING FOR 2 YEARS FROM THE TIME OF OFFENSE...
YOU WILL FIND OUT THE TEAMS THAT DON'T CHEAT WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS RULE AND THE TEAMS THAT LIKE TO RACE IN THE GRAY AREA WILL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT...
This way the owner is stuck with a boat he can't sell it to be raced and the racers are done...
When you talk about finding things in the gray area....all that comes down to is the team that has the most money can go out and pay to have the advantage...and it dose nothing good for the sport....
I think that's why Factory racing was so big and compeditive.....the boats had a hymoligation rule...teams were not able to cut decks down and change there design ever 6 months..and to not having there drive configuration being changed buy allowing the drive to be surfaced a little...
Other then putting on hood scoops to get the approprate air to a engine to keep it cool and changes for safety reasons that all boats can make....there should be no changes to be made to any boat....if the big money teams like that kind of stuff...more power to them...let them do what they want...
But for the smaller teams let it come down to the racers....
testing is good...but it should be for testing legal props changing X's and moving weight around...
Last edited by MANITIE; 10-31-2007 at 12:16 PM.
10-31-2007, 01:31 PM
#15
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Doug,
I'm saying...in the rules it needs to say just that, nothing other then scoops and any changes that the inspecters approve to all teams for safety...
I'm not saying there was not cheating in F1 and F2...but alot of teams also got caught cheating to...if they were banned along with there boats for 2 years...there would have been less then thre already was...
There needs to be no gray area....out of the box, no modification at all,
Thats one of the reasons SLV is so competitive...all running the same engines same gear ratio and legal props along with the same 3 basic hulls....
I'm saying...in the rules it needs to say just that, nothing other then scoops and any changes that the inspecters approve to all teams for safety...
I'm not saying there was not cheating in F1 and F2...but alot of teams also got caught cheating to...if they were banned along with there boats for 2 years...there would have been less then thre already was...
There needs to be no gray area....out of the box, no modification at all,
Thats one of the reasons SLV is so competitive...all running the same engines same gear ratio and legal props along with the same 3 basic hulls....
Last edited by MANITIE; 10-31-2007 at 01:56 PM.
10-31-2007, 01:45 PM
#16
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coming from a different form of racing... I can say development is BASED on finding the must unfair fair advantage if that makes sense. i built a race vehicle once, not by looking at the off the shelf technology available, or what everybody in my class was doing, but by examining the rule book as closely as possible and exploiting every rule to my advantage while staying within the rules. the end result worked so good I one the first race by 1 and a half laps (5 30 mile laps) with less then 5 hours testing time, after winning like that the next 5 or 6 races I basically killed the class. I won every race that year, but by the end of the year..there was noone left for me to race. from this I learned there are 2 aspects to every technical race rule.. the physical limitation of the rule and the spirit of the rule (to make the racing fair and competitive)..while "bending the envelope" of the rule to the point just before it breaks..technology can increase or competition can decrease..its a double edged sword..while its rewarding to test tune and perfect the slightest advantage against your opponent, developing a 20% "legal" advantage, kills the sport and in hindsight, how much fun is it to race or how rewarding to win when you KNOW the next guydoesnt have a prayer?? just some points to ponder..
10-31-2007, 01:50 PM
#17
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It's clear to me that if you cheat you are a piece of chit. If you are caught you should be gone for at least 2 years to life. You are not good for the sport or worthy of racing with those of us that don't cheat. If your ecm is hot, if your prop is "fixed" or your GPS "didn't work" go to the rule book and find the penalty, that's it. The rules are the rules. Period.
If it is in the grey area, shame on the organization and make a decision based on common sense, intent and have the entire class vote on the penalty. Then change the rule.
If it is in the grey area, shame on the organization and make a decision based on common sense, intent and have the entire class vote on the penalty. Then change the rule.
10-31-2007, 02:43 PM
#18
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On the fuel in SC...thats there problem....in factory class racing it was simple....you used the fuel provided with no aditives...or from the gas station...if there was additives found you were disquilified...
Again...its simple..looking for the gray area is nothing more then cheating....and I agree its up to the Organization to make it very clear to everyone...
If the rules say for example in spec class racing is only scoops and approved saftey changes that all boats can make.... and only race fuel that is provided can be used...there is no gray area...
any changes may be made with all teams approval and low cost to acheive changes can be added....but at least all teams would no of any changes if they wish to make them and if they agree on them and the info is given to any new team that joins that class
On the GPS rule....that should be looked at....we have sent ours back after the first race when it didn't read last year...that had problems...and we had nothing to do with it...it was in a race that we did not even hit 87 mph in a 95 mph class...is that cheating...I would think not...but its a littler harder in GPS racing...I thing its easy in spec racing...the rules should be the rules and leave no gray area....
I agree on the appeal....and let them have a say...but if the rules are set and say these are the only two changes that can be made period...it can only fall back on the scoop, prop or weight of boat....
If you can't beat someone without finding a gray area while the teams that are beating you racing by the rules....maybe you should work on your own skills instead of being a losser....
Again...its simple..looking for the gray area is nothing more then cheating....and I agree its up to the Organization to make it very clear to everyone...
If the rules say for example in spec class racing is only scoops and approved saftey changes that all boats can make.... and only race fuel that is provided can be used...there is no gray area...
any changes may be made with all teams approval and low cost to acheive changes can be added....but at least all teams would no of any changes if they wish to make them and if they agree on them and the info is given to any new team that joins that class
On the GPS rule....that should be looked at....we have sent ours back after the first race when it didn't read last year...that had problems...and we had nothing to do with it...it was in a race that we did not even hit 87 mph in a 95 mph class...is that cheating...I would think not...but its a littler harder in GPS racing...I thing its easy in spec racing...the rules should be the rules and leave no gray area....
I agree on the appeal....and let them have a say...but if the rules are set and say these are the only two changes that can be made period...it can only fall back on the scoop, prop or weight of boat....
If you can't beat someone without finding a gray area while the teams that are beating you racing by the rules....maybe you should work on your own skills instead of being a losser....
Last edited by MANITIE; 10-31-2007 at 03:05 PM.
10-31-2007, 05:08 PM
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I see your point...but thats why you fuel should be bought at the race site and sealed...
At the same time...if you are buying fuel in a differant state when your compeditors will be buying there's in a state which will give you a better performance...yes you are knowing your cheating...If you live in say Mich and the race is in FL and a team can only fuel at a gas station or fuel provided at the site and you will have a advantage....yes that is cheating....that is one of those gray area's...but if you are doing something knowing you will have the advantage and is going against the rules....and if teams would know they will be suspended for years....that little advantage would probably not be worth the risk...
Also the ECM issue could be handled....If everyone is running Merc 525's...merc could donate all ECM's for each race..and draw for them...at the end of the race the ECM's are collected by Merc during inspection and redone at every even...the owners of the teams would keep there own and not be used for racing....
At the same time...if you are buying fuel in a differant state when your compeditors will be buying there's in a state which will give you a better performance...yes you are knowing your cheating...If you live in say Mich and the race is in FL and a team can only fuel at a gas station or fuel provided at the site and you will have a advantage....yes that is cheating....that is one of those gray area's...but if you are doing something knowing you will have the advantage and is going against the rules....and if teams would know they will be suspended for years....that little advantage would probably not be worth the risk...
Also the ECM issue could be handled....If everyone is running Merc 525's...merc could donate all ECM's for each race..and draw for them...at the end of the race the ECM's are collected by Merc during inspection and redone at every even...the owners of the teams would keep there own and not be used for racing....
Last edited by MANITIE; 10-31-2007 at 05:14 PM.
10-31-2007, 05:52 PM
#20
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