Pete B

why do you say that??

KenD

Technology in Offshore has improved way beyond the original designs of the Super V boats that competed in 2002 through 2004. The original Spiderman boat (the Bravo boat) was highly modified from its original design, if I remember correctly it was DQ'd and fined by APBA for making unapproved bottom changes. That was when the F2 bottom homogulation rules where carried over to Super V...that part of the rules effectively disappeared when the LLC folded.

The other factor is the #6 drive. When the Spiderman boat pushed the top Super V speeds to 105 mph, the Bravo drives became unreliable (and unsafe) for competition. Also, there was not a big selection of props, and prop failures with their inherent safety (and repair) issues was a common problem with the Bravo drives.

To reconfigure a Super V boat designed and built for a Bravo setup, you have to take into consideration the weight of the #6drive as compared to the Bravo. To re-balance a boat after re-fitting it with #6 drives can be a very expensive proposition. The newer boats are built specifically for the added stern weight. The bottom line is no...refitting an older Super V with #6 drives and running the same horsepower is not feasible...you're better of buying a new boat.

As for propping down and running P-4...I don't know...I guess it could be done but with a 1.50 gear ratio you would have to run a 26-27 pitch prop and drop the X down to the max not to be all over the rev limiter...or change the drive ratio...I'm not sure if it is possible..but if it is....there is nothing in the current rules (other than the Inspector provisions) to prevent somebody from doing it.

Racing has...and will continue to evolve. You have to remember that a racing Class is nothing more than a way of creating parity between the boats that race in it. Parity can be controlled either by mechanical rules (spec classes) or performance rules (P-Classes). I expect that in the future we will see an evolution of implementing technology to maintain parity in the performance classes before we see mechanical restrictions. You can monitor both speed and acceleration with the GPS systems we currently have in place...it won''t be long before we evolve to using the GPS to further assure that every boat racing in a Class has an equal and reasonable expectation of being successful.

TeamTaboo

Pete on our 05 Fountain after buying the hull it cost about 100,000 to 150,000 to rig and paint our boat. Our paint job was 35,000 so go from there. We also had some help from our parts manufactures. This boat will fly in 08

Pete B

Why was the homolagation rule put into effect for SV?? With Factory racing I can see it but not SV.

AS for the six conversion, Yes I agree buying a new hull would be cheaper in the long run.

AS for the #6 spiderman, that boat ran 112 mph out of the box, I was in Sarasota, helping out with the dial in proccess.
that boat should still be in the mix with the fountains. Not sure if they are off on set up, or just not intrested in playing at that level. Just the same the lucas oil boat that trumel set up could easily compete with the SV's.

MANITIE

Some boats run good with the 1:50 gear and some with the 1:35....the fountains like the 1:35 gear with a 31 hearring...when balanced correctly it will run....now with the #6's when we raced against them we tried everything that a bravo boat could do....but because the different gear ratio's you can run it was tough to compete with the #6's, plus I talked to David Knight after a few rough water races and he said they could never run the boat as hard as they did with Bravo's...they would never have stayed together...

So I would say the #6's have a benifit over Bravo's plus more gear ratios to choise from.

This year it was simple for us....we ran a 1:50 with a 31 and ran that prop in 6 footers or clam water....and went threw the drives once in the middle of the year and again before the Worlds....with no problems with the Bravo's

When the first Spiderman boat was pentilized in 03 for mover there strakes, I was under the impression there was a hymoligation rule for hulls....I could be wrong....

But these boats are getting faster and faster every year...
The Ultz boat was fast in its day....but today SV's are running there Kilo record speed in a race....

Look at a SV fountain in 2003 and look at the 42 today...completely differant.....

In the case of stock boats running in P-2, Wahoo ran in P2 and so did John A in his new stock boat....its a true 105 mph boat all day long...but put it in 5 footers and sure the 38 fountains will walk away from them or any 38 foot boat

And I thought the rule read in P-Class, what speed the boat was capible to run in the ideal conditions...not ruff water....

I don't know how fast Ryans boat was in clam water but put any 24' cat in 4 to 6 foot seas and there in trouble..

I don't think your going to see SV grow unless you see a bunch of 42 Fountains in it....Yes a Outerlimites comes out now...but how many racers are going to spend $600k for a Outerlimites SV....Thats why your seeing all the older SV's running in P-class....the Fountains in P-2 with 31's and the rest of us running P-3 with 1:50 with 30 to 31's, all the older SV's with this set ups are more closer to both top end speeds and acceleration times then any Spec class SV's with 3 differant manufactures running against each other...
and if you add the 38 Badboys SV with the 1:50 and a 30 you would see that boat also would fit right in with us

I think the P3-Class has the most potental of growing becasuse of the amount of older SV's with 525's and 38 to 40 foot open cockpit boats with bigger power...but the speeds are still safe for running in a open cockpit....in the F2 days they were running around 90 mph...plus there are at least 9 older Super Vees out there with lids and no lids...plus another 6 to 8 36 to 40 open cockpits boats with 600's to 900's in it that could run with us an as we sen in OPA and in Key West...any boat could win.....

Pete B

The wahoo boat had 2.5 as did the other new boat plus having a lid. Ryan's was a open 24 with 200's.

The oL is not even in the same class as the fountains and Skaters and RD's Phantom would give it a run for its money.

Are the SV that run P-3 not capable of running 105??? or a 100 for that matter??

I know there are a few svl's that can run low 90's but they cannot sustain this in a race especially in rough water.

MANITIE

I agree in the case of Rayan's 24 why not run it in P-3....again I don't know what the top speed of his boat was in ideal conditions...

I also agree the O/L has a lot of R&D to do to get it to compete to the Fountains....I just don't see any more Skaters being built for SV.....just my thoughts..

Most older SV are not capible of running 105....

We had to go to 1:35's and a big prop and spend some more money on differant lowers to get over 105...but still had terrible accelerations.....
The 36 Gladiator is a great ruff water boat but in the clam it still only seen 95....they could probably if they wanted to spend the money get it to 100 along with us and the Phantoms....thats why we started talking about the new SV class that capped us at 100.....it gave the older SV's a chance against the faster Fountains....

but put all the older 38 Fountains, phantoms, badboys, and us and the 36 Gladator in 6 footers and some of us slower boats could easily run up front....instead of starting a new class...we just moved to P-Class and did it there and had some bigger HP open cockpit boats run with us....

I think your starting to see some good sportmanship in P-Class...becasue when I talked to Smitty and a few other Fountains, for them to move to P-3 would not be fair...they would have to prop down so much and there accelerations times would be so much faster they felt there were capable of the 105 speeds and a little faster...

Today...I really don't see any P-4 boats with there current HP to be able to run in P-3 and the P-3 teams able to move to P-2 and be able to hit those speeds....

Pete B

Also curious, why run stock power?? Supposedly their are Hot ecm's available, or having a someone like JC juice up the motor?? I think the canopy boats have such a advantage over a open boat especially in rough water!

KenD

Pete,

Why run sock power?

With stock power in a P-3 Super V, we can be every bit as competitive as any other boat in the Class, no matter what engine/drive combination. We have speed, acceleration, and the safety of running as hard as we can in a canopy boat.

Why spend a gazillion dollars on some exotic engine when you have good, reliable power right under the hatch? We can get around 150 hours out of our stock power without a rebuild. Most already have a rough water set-up that includes a 30-32 pitch prop...so there's no need to invest any more in the prop program.

All-in-all, racing an older Super V in P-3 is the most inexpensive and most competitive Class in Offshore. That's why Gino and I have can't believe more of these boats are not out there racing.

Why these owners opt to let their boat sit on the trailer is beyond me....I know how much money they have invested...and not to get something out of your investment is...well...what would you call it?

Pete B

I am not sure I follow you on this, if it protects the teams investment, there are teams out there racing 30 year old boats in P-class. I am quite sure they arnet the original owners.

And as you stated in car racing, the rules are set but thier budget is out of this world , Cant take a race car and make it a street car or pleasure car.

If I recall APBA charged the manufacturer's a fee for homolagation, is that right???

And if the manufacturer didnt hit the mold right the first time then refining the bottom to perform faster and safer is a must.
When the Yachts fountain went buy you could see its had some tuning done to the bottom. This is what advances the design as I am sure you are aware of.

In SV with the factory backing the teams its hard to compete, without the kind of backing. And if the boat isnt competitive, it is much easier to abandon the program.. As many of the big manufacturers have. And its just not possible for the small guys to do without some sponsorship.