TYPHOON

Frank, I thought that it was in a LOTO class that was supposed to be with a stock merc 525. I dont know the LOTO rules and maybe he was in a class that allows anything goes. Does anyone know?

Griswald

he moaned last year when Lance ran the number saying his boat wasn't legal svl, blah blah blah

carcrash

The physics are a lot more complex than that simple model that people use. The simple model (not physics) is based on fitting easily measurable factors (weight, hp, pitch, rpm) to a magic number (Crouch factor, named after the race boat designer who saw Fountain level success, mostly with stepped bottoms, from about 1905 to 1935). The equations behind these two models have zero resemblance to the actual physics, its just a simple equation with all the complex stuff clumped together in a factor that can vary widely.

These non-physics based models are useful for a given individual to tune one boat or perhaps a set of boats that are very similar, like the Extreme and Phantom boats.

But the Fountain boat is different, and so it's silly and ignorant to pretend that there should be no difference in results.

Perhaps the aerodynamics of the deck is sufficiently better. Looks that way to me. Aerodynamics are not in any way represented by those models.

Perhaps the second step is better. We all know that angle of attack makes a huge difference, yet that is another important factor not represented at all by these common models.

Perhaps the wider beam helps by reducing chine walk and therefore allows more stable lift and less steering therefore better propulsion and less drag. Again, zero factors for dynamic behavior in those simple models, but we all know how important these factors are.

Perhaps the wider beam makes the deck generate more lift with less drag. Again, important but not at all included in the simple models.

So before getting all twisted that observations (race speeds) don't match very simple models that don't in any way address factors we all know are important, and before using these inaccurate and imprecise models as evidence someone is cheating, perhaps we should all consider the possibility that Reggie came up with something that can clean up in the only V bottom class he has not dominated for decades.

I think the reason Reggie has been so dominant is because he takes a scientific, rather than religious, approach to boat performance. Instead of putting faith in flawed models as gospel truth, he runs lots and lots of experiments. Science is all about experiments, not faith.

Von Bongo

I hesitate to comment but I believe there is an easy reason the boat ran in the 80's except for 1 run and no I don't think Reggie had anything to do with it unless he was reading the boat registration numbers.

Personally I think they got Taz and this boat confused at the start boat because later in the day they passed us the SVL info but Taz was on course.

People wonder why we get the information wrong a lot on TV and that's because we use what comes over the radio until we can get a visual on the boat. Sometimes the boat is half way down the course before we in the booth can see what it really is.

Makes us sound stupid but it is what it is with an all volunteer crew. Boat may have run 105, only those on board know for sure but I suspect it was a scoring error. If someone doubted it they could have had the boat inspected like Doc did last year. I'd guess with Teague and the other inspectors they would be albe to figure out if the boat wasn't stock.

Again I may be wrong but it has happend in prior years.

TYPHOON

Von, That makes more sence to me than it went 105 with a stock 525.
Again was he running in a class that was supposed to have a stock 525? Maybe not and this whole post is $hit.
If he was in a 525 class and he was mixed up with another boat that ran 105 MPH wouldnt a normal person say to the official (I would like to take credit for 105 but we didnt do that and nor could we on our best day) Instead of we just got away with this one son.
Carcrash, I totally agree Reggie builds the fastest race boats in the world due to his relentless testing on the water. In your opinion do you think a single vee with a stock 525 can run the same speeds as a twin 35' Fountain?

Von Bongo

F1 is single engine factory ie 500efi, 525, 500 carb so yes

carcrash

It seems in the realm of possibility, but I think its clear that this case, and other cases, where the Fountain SVL was "clocked" at 100+ are suspect. Especially since the actual SVL racing seems very close.

A canopy boat could easily have fairly dramatically less aerodynamic drag than an open cockpit, and aero drag increases by the cube of velocity while water drag stays almost constant (because the lift and the drag both increase by the cube, so at higher speed far less bottom is in the water). So at these speeds, a little cleaner aero can result in a lot less drag. Combined with being half the weight (or certainly, a LOT less) than a production 35 footer, I'm not surprised that half the power gets the same speeds. All the SVLs are about the same speed as twin pleasure boats.

While the frontal area of the Extreme and Phantom boats is obviously less because they are about the same height but much narrower, its **possible** that the total drag is lower: the Fountain canopy looks closer to the ideal teardrop than the others. And again, the wide deck could cause more lift at less drag than the narrow boats. Since the water drag will be very similar (almost identical weights), but the aero drag **could** be less, its not a surprise to me that the Fountain is fast.

P.S. I may own a Fountain, but I curse Reggie from time to time, as I'm sure everyone who owns any boat curses the designer/builder from time to time. I'm not a "fan boy" but I appreciate his success, and I attribute the success to his relentless testing. I am sure Reggie's practice of test-test-test and test some more has permanently influenced the practices of many people around him.

gary cook

WE talked to doc while we were in line to get our trophy at loto it did go 105 but he said that it was not a 525 race motor that they would race with .
That being said who knows what it really was but no funny business this was loto not a svl race they were going for speed and fun and he also said the correct 525 would be in the boat for the next race they went to hope this help a little and stops a little of the second third party info.
Also on one pass they were in front me as far as power i dont know but i do know they must have had a big wheel on it because it was very slow getting up to speed it was working hard to get some rpm.

Von Bongo

All well and good if so, however then they should have been registered under the M class and not the F class.

TYPHOON

Von, I agree. The shame of it is that with a stock F motor he would have won any way and got his trophy. Once again the boat is thrusted in a cloud of contraversy with potential for people to say WTF. I know LOTO is for fun but handing people trophys and putting them in a record book without some type of inspection will only draw shallow people to get there name in the book. Its a shame the hard working teams dont have a chance against this kind of racer. With out a inspection LOTO shouldn't have a record book for this bracket. I predict the 105 MPH record will never be broke with a stock F motor.
The SVL class has only gone from 93 MPH to 95MPH in the last 10 years of testing all differant hulls,prop's,x dim,CG's and now in 1 year it is possable to get to 105