Future of Factory Class
12-22-2003, 04:54 PM
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Future of Factory Class
DISCLAIMER, DISCLAIMER, DISCLAIMER!!!!!!
Ok ladies and gentlemen, before I start, I want to make sure everyone understands we are not going to do what I am about to outline unless there is buy-in from you, ok. This is only our best opinion on what we all can do to revive Factory Racing and build the numbers back up. So here goes.
Preface to the Plan:
Factory class racing must appeal to the industry manufacturers. To do that we must build classes around what is sold to most of the general high performance boat buying public.
Based on our research we have made the following findings -
1. The 525's are too fast and too expensive to serve as stock power in open cockpit boats.
2. HP500's are no longer being promoted, marketed, or advertised as a mainstream product offering.
3. The 496HO from Mother Mercury is a great engine, relatively inexpensive, readily available, and the base "factory/stock" engine of choice for many boat builders and not just high performance boats. This means it has a broader appeal and following among the general boat buying public i.e. fan base.
4. Target competition speeds should be in the range of 75-80 for F1's and 80-85 for F2's. With the addition of dry exhaust to the 496HO these speeds are attainable from the outset.
THE PLAN:
All F1 and F2 teams convert to the Mother Mercury 496HO immediately.
We believe that teams with the 525's should be able to purchase the engine, drive and gimbal for $17k-18k, and then sell the drive and their 525, get their engines sealed and exhaust added plus racing mounts and end up with $5000+ cash in their pockets. The 500 teams should not do much worse than that either.
We select a weight in the neighborhood of 4500-4650lbs in F1 and 8000-8350lbs in F2.
We allow Bravos only with the XR, XZ or standard gearcase.
All of the other current Factory rules apply.
RATIONALE:
This platform returns Factory Racing to its roots. The first weekend any of us ever acquired and tested our original F1 boats in Spring 1997 we ran around side by side, flying in the gulf at no more than 74mph.
By the time the season started in St. Cloud that year we were all running around 77mph. By the end of the year the legal boats ran just a shade under 80. The kilo that year was 79+. Miklos held the record in his Corsa and he was far and away the fastest legal boat in the class.
In Sarasota that year the top three boats finished within 1 second of each other and there were double digit lead changes. The racing was like that all year and if you ask the guys who raced then like Bull, Miklos, Kildahl, et. al. they will tell you the boats were plenty fast and the racing was hugely intense. There also were no accidents that year either and we routinely beat the open cockpit A boats and pushed the canopy boats around.
We believe with the slower safer speeds and reduced cost to enter, the F classes will grow again under this scenario.
ALTERNATIVE:
Detune the 525's to match up with the 500's and add weight to slow the boats down. Problem is that we will not get manufacturer support and the engines are too expensive to draw new racers. CRE can do that but we think you are putting a band-aid on the situation.
OK - before anyone responds, take a deep breath and read the foregoing carefully, think about it then let it fly.
If we are going to put 525's in boats and go 90+ you should have a lid.
Mike
Ok ladies and gentlemen, before I start, I want to make sure everyone understands we are not going to do what I am about to outline unless there is buy-in from you, ok. This is only our best opinion on what we all can do to revive Factory Racing and build the numbers back up. So here goes.
Preface to the Plan:
Factory class racing must appeal to the industry manufacturers. To do that we must build classes around what is sold to most of the general high performance boat buying public.
Based on our research we have made the following findings -
1. The 525's are too fast and too expensive to serve as stock power in open cockpit boats.
2. HP500's are no longer being promoted, marketed, or advertised as a mainstream product offering.
3. The 496HO from Mother Mercury is a great engine, relatively inexpensive, readily available, and the base "factory/stock" engine of choice for many boat builders and not just high performance boats. This means it has a broader appeal and following among the general boat buying public i.e. fan base.
4. Target competition speeds should be in the range of 75-80 for F1's and 80-85 for F2's. With the addition of dry exhaust to the 496HO these speeds are attainable from the outset.
THE PLAN:
All F1 and F2 teams convert to the Mother Mercury 496HO immediately.
We believe that teams with the 525's should be able to purchase the engine, drive and gimbal for $17k-18k, and then sell the drive and their 525, get their engines sealed and exhaust added plus racing mounts and end up with $5000+ cash in their pockets. The 500 teams should not do much worse than that either.
We select a weight in the neighborhood of 4500-4650lbs in F1 and 8000-8350lbs in F2.
We allow Bravos only with the XR, XZ or standard gearcase.
All of the other current Factory rules apply.
RATIONALE:
This platform returns Factory Racing to its roots. The first weekend any of us ever acquired and tested our original F1 boats in Spring 1997 we ran around side by side, flying in the gulf at no more than 74mph.
By the time the season started in St. Cloud that year we were all running around 77mph. By the end of the year the legal boats ran just a shade under 80. The kilo that year was 79+. Miklos held the record in his Corsa and he was far and away the fastest legal boat in the class.
In Sarasota that year the top three boats finished within 1 second of each other and there were double digit lead changes. The racing was like that all year and if you ask the guys who raced then like Bull, Miklos, Kildahl, et. al. they will tell you the boats were plenty fast and the racing was hugely intense. There also were no accidents that year either and we routinely beat the open cockpit A boats and pushed the canopy boats around.
We believe with the slower safer speeds and reduced cost to enter, the F classes will grow again under this scenario.
ALTERNATIVE:
Detune the 525's to match up with the 500's and add weight to slow the boats down. Problem is that we will not get manufacturer support and the engines are too expensive to draw new racers. CRE can do that but we think you are putting a band-aid on the situation.
OK - before anyone responds, take a deep breath and read the foregoing carefully, think about it then let it fly.
If we are going to put 525's in boats and go 90+ you should have a lid.
Mike
12-22-2003, 05:24 PM
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Mike:
I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!!!!!!!!
Factory boats are too fast! This seems to me to be a good way to keep the racing competititve, the costs down and the speeds safe!
Sure, there may be some costs involved, but it is the only sensible way to fix this problem. Guys that want to go faster need lids.
Sure, some people are going to *****, but we need to do what the MAJORITY of people are going to want, and I think that your proposal does just that. I don't want to go to any more funerals, and I would like to keep racing my boat. If it got a little safer, I just might get back in it.
Tom Caruso
Total Marine Racing
F2-32
I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!!!!!!!!
Factory boats are too fast! This seems to me to be a good way to keep the racing competititve, the costs down and the speeds safe!
Sure, there may be some costs involved, but it is the only sensible way to fix this problem. Guys that want to go faster need lids.
Sure, some people are going to *****, but we need to do what the MAJORITY of people are going to want, and I think that your proposal does just that. I don't want to go to any more funerals, and I would like to keep racing my boat. If it got a little safer, I just might get back in it.
Tom Caruso
Total Marine Racing
F2-32
12-22-2003, 05:37 PM
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MIKE A,
I THINK YOU SHOULD POST ON WETPITS AND GET PECONICS PERMISSION TO POST HERE.
ON THE OTHER HAND THANKS. IT'S A GREAT IDEA TO GET BACK TO BASICS,BUT LOCK THE RULES IN FOR THREE YEARS AND MAKE IT WORTH THERE TIME AND EFFORT AND MONEY.
I ALSO AGREE ON THE LID FOR OVER 90MPH,I RACED IN A OPEN BOAT AND I WON'T GET BACK IN UNLESS I HAVE A LID. MY WIFE AND KID ARE IMPORTANT TO ME. I KNOW I RUN MY BOAT AT 130MPH,BUT THATS NOT RACING.
I HAVE TO GO PUT MY PLOW ON NOW,BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA GET A BLIZZARD. I AGREED WITH YOU.
THANKS FOR SPELL CHECKING.
I THINK YOU SHOULD POST ON WETPITS AND GET PECONICS PERMISSION TO POST HERE.
ON THE OTHER HAND THANKS. IT'S A GREAT IDEA TO GET BACK TO BASICS,BUT LOCK THE RULES IN FOR THREE YEARS AND MAKE IT WORTH THERE TIME AND EFFORT AND MONEY.
I ALSO AGREE ON THE LID FOR OVER 90MPH,I RACED IN A OPEN BOAT AND I WON'T GET BACK IN UNLESS I HAVE A LID. MY WIFE AND KID ARE IMPORTANT TO ME. I KNOW I RUN MY BOAT AT 130MPH,BUT THATS NOT RACING.
I HAVE TO GO PUT MY PLOW ON NOW,BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA GET A BLIZZARD. I AGREED WITH YOU.
THANKS FOR SPELL CHECKING.
12-22-2003, 05:50 PM
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Mike,
Is their a aprox. price on the engine....and if this went threw would the engines be done by the beginning of the seasons.....I'm just guessing by the numbers but would that put the engine alone about 10k-11K....I have no problem with going more affordable and safer...so if the majority of the F1 guys agree I'm in....
Is their a aprox. price on the engine....and if this went threw would the engines be done by the beginning of the seasons.....I'm just guessing by the numbers but would that put the engine alone about 10k-11K....I have no problem with going more affordable and safer...so if the majority of the F1 guys agree I'm in....
12-22-2003, 06:05 PM
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BALDY, WE KNOW YOU RODE THE LITTLE YELLOW BUS.
I AGREED WITH HIM,WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
WILL THAT PUT YOU IN FACTORY ONE WITH THE 496?
P-5 FOR OPA AND F-1 FOR APBA AND A AFFORDABLE PACKAGE.
I AGREED WITH HIM,WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
WILL THAT PUT YOU IN FACTORY ONE WITH THE 496?
P-5 FOR OPA AND F-1 FOR APBA AND A AFFORDABLE PACKAGE.
12-22-2003, 06:39 PM
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Gino - the 496HO is a standard offering from Mercury. Not Mercury Racing but Mercury. Engines are ready and available anywhere in the country right now. I know there are plenty of dealers who sell them and there are plenty of places that will take the 500's and 525's and help you sell them if you do not want to do it yourself. If we had consensus we could have a program together for everyone in a few days if not sooner.
Rich - I cannot stress this enough: the racers need sponsors and manufacturer support. So does the sanctioning body. Our product, so to speak, is our television and events. If we simply start giving that away through free publicity no one makes money. Everyone needs to understand that.
We allowed the HP525 because Mercury wanted us to do so. It is important to note that when we approved the HP3 and 525 both engines were right around 525hp. When we dynoed the first 525 race engine at Innovation just prior to the season, it produced over 550hp. We later learned that Mercury changed the ECM without telling us so the engine would outperform the HP3 presumably. They then refused to give us the testing information and tools we needed to ensure no one cheated the ECM. We had the ability to test the GM engine but not the 525.
That unapproved increase in hp threw all of our numbers off and had us chasing our tails all year. In retrospect, we should not have approved the 525 but at the time it was what Mercury wanted and we wanted to deliver for them. Oh well.
Mike
Rich - I cannot stress this enough: the racers need sponsors and manufacturer support. So does the sanctioning body. Our product, so to speak, is our television and events. If we simply start giving that away through free publicity no one makes money. Everyone needs to understand that.
We allowed the HP525 because Mercury wanted us to do so. It is important to note that when we approved the HP3 and 525 both engines were right around 525hp. When we dynoed the first 525 race engine at Innovation just prior to the season, it produced over 550hp. We later learned that Mercury changed the ECM without telling us so the engine would outperform the HP3 presumably. They then refused to give us the testing information and tools we needed to ensure no one cheated the ECM. We had the ability to test the GM engine but not the 525.
That unapproved increase in hp threw all of our numbers off and had us chasing our tails all year. In retrospect, we should not have approved the 525 but at the time it was what Mercury wanted and we wanted to deliver for them. Oh well.
Mike
12-22-2003, 06:55 PM
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Thanks Mike,
Now its up to the racers.....teams want 1+1+1 and a 3 year deal.....here's one....I know of 5 teams that won't post hear and I'll make some calls....
Gino
Now its up to the racers.....teams want 1+1+1 and a 3 year deal.....here's one....I know of 5 teams that won't post hear and I'll make some calls....
Gino
