Hauling Trash

SBI, APBA and OPA

Thay all should have the same rules when it comes to P-class boats.

If they don`t ,then how can we all race`s in Key West ????

Mike

HighPriority

GOOD POINT!!! Hauling Trash

TomR

Very Good Point Hauling Trash!
I would like to see SBI and OPA use the same rules. I think average lap speed would be just fine! That being said, I agree with Augie, lets just go out, race and have fun!!

raynman

Every time a thread like this gets started I vow that if I participate, I will never do it again. This has been tossed around so many times. But here I go again. I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings I'm just expressing myself.

Qball,
I agree with you about larger boats having an advantage in almost all conditions. Sonic boom beat us soundly in Cambridge even though they said they had oil pressure problems.

Augie,
There is no valid comparison to your boat that can be made. Truly it is one of a kind. I am just happy to be still alive after you almost ran over us in Cambridge. Purely accidental guys and I don't know how close it was but
The Godfather was very quick to apologize.

My thoughts on P class racing. My first race was in 1999
in Baltimore. Did a one day with APBA and raced in the local class under National Club Class Tour rules. These rules had six classes with class 6 being bone stock. We were in class 5, mixture of outboards and I/O with limits on length according to power. Class one was big power cats. Class 2 was big v's with big power, etc. NO ONE put their boat in a class. That was done by I think 2 tech inspectors who placed you in the proper class. At the drivers meeting after some discussion there were a couple of boats that changed classes with everyones OK. There were no top speeds and no lap speeds. And there was no complaining, finger pointing, etc after the race.

My thoughts on what would make a good P5 class are:

Single engine ( possibly twin outboards)
26 or 27 foot maximum length
510 cu. in
approx max hp 500-550 (or whatever is deemed reasonable)
9:1 compression ratio (or something like that)
No stepped hulls
No superchargers
25" or so maximum prop pitch

I think those specs would make an equitable class in which you would not have to have a speed limit. Boats conforming to these specs would probably run close to 70 mph but certainly not much more. I'm pretty sure there are enough boats out there to fill P5 under these rules.
One more thoght. All of us are not interested in stepping up to a spec class. Nor are we able. Finances and time keep us from doing anything on a National basis. How many times can we get away to Florida in a season.


Ray
P5-79 Not Guilty

ryoung99

Augie,
Personally I have no issue with a 30+ foot pleasure craft (condo as you say) racing P4. The weight does matter and it will always be more difficult to get your boat up to speed than say my 2600 lb rocket.

For some reason I seem to have issue with "full race" twins in P4, Then again, what the hell, bring it on!!!!! Just do it on my turf.

Everyone in this forum is correct and all of us are wrong. For some reason the guys with singles (including me) could do more if we wanted to.... I mean if the Sonic can prop down, I could toss on a whipple and prop down, there is no way a twin would out accelerate me then.

While I agree with Ryan stating don't prop down, run it wide open.... if others are going to do it, single engine boats can as well.

So I recant my earlier position, all boat that run under 79.9 during a race should be eligable for P4 (69.9 P5, etc). If you are losing with your boat, figure out a way within the rules to win (or continue lose).

Rick "looking forward to kicking some twin butt"

Jonas

its funny to read this as i was the 35 sled that raced at pittsburg in the popra race and we ran the whole race in calm water drives never left the water!!! not even close,,, and we ran the whole race at between 80-82.5 mph gps'd propped it and set it up on purpose that way for p 4 .. hmmm we got 3rd and i can say we didnt lift for the corners non step good old girl doesnt care about turns like step bottoms ladies do,,
so bottom line is!!
doesnt matter what the speed is or anythig in P class just run 1-2 classes down so u have 10 mph on em.
we got beat by elim cat runnin at least 85 + and a bat running mid 80's close to 90 as they were hanging with the lavey team and i believe kevin said they were high jhigh 80's//
calm water,,, so the reality here is if u want to win and take home a checker either protest or run down a class..
with this in check i think need s to happen is handicap racing,,, i/e sailboat golf etc..
think about this..
35 fountain 80 mph boat
bat boat 87 mph boat
28 skater 100 mph boat
26 scarab 70
a good math person could calculate the time it would take to run the course at ideal cond in ea boat,, right??
now take and deduct tme from the faster boat to handicap them and one guy could literally be 10 min or whatever behind and still win as he drove the boat to the MAX CAPACITY OF WHAT IT CAN DO NOT WHAT HE SAYS, so really it comes down to driver. u could be in a 46 skater with 1300's or a 26 scarab with a 454 , that would be a great local race venue, all equal when it come so the money and equipment so to speak
i think this would be a huge draw for folks as i would not do what i did again, i will race again but i gaurantee that i would not be 3rd again, not that i am great or anything but i feel that i have learned alot and would do something very different next time,unless rules change,
my team sponsors etc and my self had a freaking blast and truly enjoyed the people competitors and thought it was a great group of people, but i am not gooing to go out and just get spanked again,, i have raced superbikes formula 2 bikes formula twins motocross etc and i can take a good dice and lose but i cant lay down,
so what is the answer i am open here as this is an open forum, i dont have 500k for a race budget,, i want to race but not like last time as i have 0 chance. it wuld be like taking a pinto to a drag race against a viper,, i have a viper and no pintos want to race! hmm why?

foks i am looking for your thoughts on this,
thanks
P4-56

Jonas

The fact that Sonic Racing was allowed to race P4 with a boat that was an F2 boat the prior year was almost offensive. While I harbor no hard feeling toward them, as they were but playing within the rules, it was not exactly in the spirit of a "run what you brung class", as their boat was capable of much much more.

My .02.

rick

i think a canopied race boat like yours is way way more out of place when it comes to a p class bu there again its all about how u percieve things, and where and what classes are avail..
i could take my new boat out an smoke the p4 class so bad it would be pathetic but that wouldnt be right thats not racing by the book.. the new 35 should run 100 . so i change props and make it accelerate like a freakin banchee and win thats not the answer,,, we would be back to who spends the most mney wins.that is supe cat not what i intended or can or want to do..
rick your thoughts???? any other bats out this way u thik?

ryoung99

Jonas,
I do not think you can use GPS from the Pittsburg race as an indication on how fast boats really are.

On the back stretch which is where everyone was telling what their speed was, there was a 5+ knot current. So a 80 mph boat, was hitting 87 on the GPS.

No one was telling you what their speed was on the front chute where you were working aganist the current. Kevin can tell you all day that his boat is 87, but there are a bunch of other F1 boats that can tell you he is not (see St. Pete), as they are not 87 mph boats and beat the Lavey.

We were running 85 down the back straight, that is true, but it was with the benefit of a 6-7 mph current. Down the front staight we were running 75.

I would be happy to let you sit in the bat at any time and give it all it has in water with no current. This weekend in perfect conditions we took the boat to Folsom and the best we got was 81.5.

Now that was in 65 degree weather, on 1-2 foot chop (i.e. perfect running conditions). In Pittsburg it was 90+ degrees so that is good to take 1-2 mph out of a boat.

Just like in St. Pete (where we ran a One Design bat boat) we beat you and the others based on acceleration and corning ability. Tim and I have practiced as much if not more than anyone racing P class at turning in different water types. Including 5+ days in Pittsburg so that we had the turn onto the front straight nailed.

That turn could cost you 200+ yards if you do not do it correctly. We won that race due to preparation, not an illegal boat.

We also spent 5+ days testing in Benicia so that we would be ready to run the straights.

Please take me up on my offer to run in the Bat, although you will be dissaponted that 90 is not in the boats vocabulary.

best wishes,
Rick

MIAMIBOYZ

LOL Will do Augie, its hot as hell down here already


Albert

ryoung99

Jonas,
I hope my post did not come accross wrong. Personally I am glad that you are questionnig the legality of my boat.

We did win big, with that stated I welcome any APBA or POPRA offical to test our boat to see if we should be racing in P3. Tim and I would welcome it, as it would put any doubt to rest.

Next time I see you I will lend you a copy of the One Design race in St. Pete. Not racing our boat but another bat boat, we won by 2+ miles (about the same as we won in Pitt). This was in identically prepared boats. We won based on our ability to corner in those boats at full speed. Tim and I have worked on this very very hard, twice now that work has paid off.

While I know everyone thinks they corner as fast, but I assure you they do not. Think about it, if we corner at the exact same speed, and you are only 30' wider around a turn that is 500 feet long, we have just gained 1500 feet on you in one corner. Multiply that by the number of corners in a race (I think 18 for Pittsburg), that is 27000 feet, which is more than 5 miles. We did not beat you that bad.

But I assure you the difference is in the corners. Also do you drive and throttle? If so that is costing you time.

If you can get to a point where you can turn as tight as we can at the same speed, we will have one heck of a race on our hands.

Please, please take me up on my offer to drive the bat. We would love to have you up for a day to boat and watch the DVD's of Pittsburg and St. Pete.

Best wishes,
Rick