turbo6

Early 2000 2750 vs. 27 warlock witch is the better boat

Uncle Dave

Any 2750 is better built than any of the 4-5 different companies that built "warlocks".

The cons - Warlocks weren't vacuum bagged, nor interlined, they had wooden floors vs fiberglass - and speaking of wood- its everywhere in these boats. Toward the latter regimes those molds were thoroughly hammered.


The pros - It was a 24 degree V and a few were fairly light.



UD

Schweeng

29 Warlock, well it traded wins with the Lavey Craft team for years. Don't know much about its construction..29 or 27 Warlock

Years ago I was at a Desert Storm Poker run dinner...they were showing video shot of the day. a 27 Warlock was coming up river and was a handful. It was all over the place and not in a good way. Drastic chine walking....like almost pitching crew... The camera just stayed on him...the crowd in the room with me was either laughing or cringing ... Not sure what it means(boat/driver error/or both) but it left an impression on me.

Uncle Dave

The Joker guy raced one as well - said it was cheap, but pretty fast and indeed a complete handful.

UD

lavey jr

I can't comment on the handling of the warlock because I'm not sure.

We had a customer from Sacramento trade in his 27 Warlock for a Lavey 2750. He raced his Warlock in F1 against our 2750 and he said there is no comparison and he'll take the Lavey any day.
The Warlock is a lot smaller boat than the Lavey. I would compare the size with the Lavey 26. There isn't very much room in the cockpit and cabin compared to the 2750. The Warlock does have a 24 degree V but again, it just looks a lot smaller than the Lavey.

Construction also has quite a bit of differences. I'm not going to say how the Warlock is constructed but Lavey is a lot higher quality. Warlocks are built well but don't have the quality the Lavey does. And as mentioned by Uncle Dave, you don't really know which company built the Warlock...

BUP

iTrader: (9)

Brian who owns Joker did race F1 in a Warlock and yes it did win at times, He said the bottoms had hooks in them. He was a dealer for Warlock back in 2000 if I remember correctly. I have seen a few in person but never driven one. Seen a couple 29's World Class in person also. It is a long 29 but not a 8'6 beam, yes it is narrow.

The latest Warlocks made were very poor quality and the few I seen advertised were listed cheap with single 496's for around 69 to 79 k in 2010 - new leftovers. They used a lot of wood and glue down carpet. Also I was in a 2006 / 2007 year model Warlock World Class 29 and the quality was better than the later years but it still had a lot of wood and glue down carpet.

The quality of 29 World Class 2006 / 2007 year model was better than average but steps down from Lavey, Sunsation, Howard, Hallett quality.

Uncle Dave

I have my own "relationship" with Warlock.

Back in 1993 My career could have gone from selling TV/Film equipment to selling boats.

I had been courting the Warlock guys for a good year to go sell for them. I got familiar with them from my days at Skipper Marine Electronics and spent some time with an owner outfitting his rig with nav gear (loran) from that - I was exposed to the Warlock factory guys and I was good at what I did and they "took a liking to me".

I had learned just enough from Jeff (Chris wasnt "friendly" back then) to be able to critique what I didn't like about about their rigs to discuss it with them in a non threatening way (always insinuating I may be their next client)

I got nothing forever then a month before the LA boat show, the phone rang, they had their guy leave (probably fired) and I got the offer.

Jeff and Chris had offered to let me hang out with them at the show just a week before- but it wasnt a job offer- it was an offer to work the show so I was stuck- I could start a career in my field of leisure, and likely say goodby to my relationship with the Camires, or I could stay in my field and have fun at boat shows helping my buds but not really being in the business.

I went to go see the manager at warlock to talk to him about my dilemma (probably not smart) and decided to start with the conversation with the exactly what the commission structure was going to be - they had so little in writing, they had detail any detail about their own comp plan I backed away on the grounds of the whole "offer" being non workable.

Its amazing how many twist and turns Ive had in my life and stepping back up- the 6 degrees of separation really rings true.

Uncle Dave

turbo6

Did laveycraft stop using wood in there boats in 2008?Does this make the boat better?

Uncle Dave

Earlier than that-

All the 2750's use very little "wood" some wood used in some places is the right thing- as is balsa as a core material (think what skater does)
SO as far back as the 2750 and 29 go although not 100% woodless they use very little wood. In a general sense the less the better especially the floor.

IF you swim a lot the floor gets and stay wet- this contributes to rot pretty quick.

This and the vac bag process makes one boat "better" than the other.

There is no way to insure a boding of a very large piece of laminate with a hand layup, and vac bags pieces are typically stronger, thinner and lighter AND stiffer - than hand laid up pieces. Not always - but the vast majority of the time - which s why the industry at large considers this process one a step above the other construction wise.

Another area of clear superiority is the number of pieces each boat has in it as well as what the pieces themselves are constructed of Think if a wooden engine hatch with all its cross members and nails/ screws vs a 1 piece vacuum bagged fiberglass hatch basically "becomes" a rock solid single piece - then multiply this concept every part of the boat you have to make - and you begin to see how the parts all come together and feel, and most importantly hold together over the decades of use.

In this area lavey has FAR fewer pieces and basically pops out of the mold ready to rig) and how the molds contribute to the functionality of the boat. Dash loom wiring rigging all a step above the W boat.

Add greater stiffness together with fewer parts and you automatically get a better product. The ocean pounding a 28 foot boat for 2 decades will really show.

Other stuff is just smarter and better thought out.

Example the gunwhales in the Warlock are formed as part of the interior package and as such fall apart and degrade with the rest of the interior- put your keys in the gunwhale of an older warlock and they will fall down into the hull itself as the fabric is the only thing separating the hull from the interior.

A 2750's gunwhales are molded into the hull itself and an intregal part of the boat and cannot have problem associated with an interior falling apart.


There are a lot of details as to why the 2750 is superior.

Take a look at boat "N" and Boat "L" Look at how the gunwale is formed and think about 10 years of pulling and pushing and grabbing at stuff in there- boat "n" is part of the interior like the warlock and subject to continuous degradation (as well as being smaller and less effective)

So what "built in" vs whats "tacked on" makes a difference over the life of the boat. Laveys got better "bones".

Also notice drain to bilge built into fiberglass floor of boat "L"
Boat "W" would have carpet glued down over a wood floor and no such drain.







UD

BUP

iTrader: (9)

Dave you can not say the "N" word up here. It is "N"ot boat politically correct to use those kinds of boating slurs on the forums. Come on now give that brother a break who builds those "N" boats. ( N_ _ _ _ c)