40' Outlaw Upgrades - Twin 900Sc to 1000hp Duramax Diesels
08-08-2016, 07:59 PM
#11
Registered
Hi there guys...and gals!
It's Dave from Sydney, Australia, the owner of this great project.
I have been dreaming of building this project for about 5 years, but have searched unsuccessfully for the right people to make this happen.
The tradition, as far as I can see it, is that a Poker Run Boat can only have a BBC or get off the train...so to speak.
Now we're I live at Northbridge, in Sydney, we have a small bay, just down the hill from were I live and the marina has only 29 wets berths, so it is very hard to get a berth, almost to the point where you need to have it passed onto you....anyway, was lucky enough to score a berth and bought a beautiful day boat of 44 foot, built in Australaj in the mid 1990's by Riviera in Australia and called the Diavolo. My model was called the America's Cup Edition and they only made 12. Mine has been completely rebuilt and is absolutely stunning. Anyway I was talking to the mechanics at the Marina about my desire to build a diesel Poker Run Boat and they said why don't you just bring the hull in and fit s couple of 525's and be done with it......and I said well were the bloody challenge in that.......beyond which, the prospect of motoring out of our quiet bay with BBC's would have people run me out of my own neighbourhood.......I hopped onto OSO and found a gem, a nice soft hulled Baja 40 Outlaw and off we went....
It was around March when I went onto OSO and having done so for years without finding anything and now with my boat already paid for I saw a member named kidturbo talking about marinising a Duramax diesel.........we chatted about a day or two and after Ken understood what I was trying to do and after I asked if he would like to run the project, we were underway.
Now all I can say is that Ken has delivered on every milestone and without me never flying anywhere to see anyone. You see us Aussies are brothers of the Yanks, having fought many wars together, the Aussies are inclined to trust a boy from Ohio, Ken, with everything. That's just the way Ken and I have rolled and I have not looked back.......
So now you are looking at a project that should have engines ready for dyno runs in two weeks, then let's just watch the rest of the project unfold from here.......
This project should have the establishment sitting up and wondering what the **** was that boat that went past, which made no noise on its approach but upon passing it sounded like a jet, with four 64mm NRE symmetrical turbos spinning st 300,000rpm..........at 2.6mpg at 100mph and not an engine rebuild in site......no stress.
Cheers - Aussie Dave
It's Dave from Sydney, Australia, the owner of this great project.
I have been dreaming of building this project for about 5 years, but have searched unsuccessfully for the right people to make this happen.
The tradition, as far as I can see it, is that a Poker Run Boat can only have a BBC or get off the train...so to speak.
Now we're I live at Northbridge, in Sydney, we have a small bay, just down the hill from were I live and the marina has only 29 wets berths, so it is very hard to get a berth, almost to the point where you need to have it passed onto you....anyway, was lucky enough to score a berth and bought a beautiful day boat of 44 foot, built in Australaj in the mid 1990's by Riviera in Australia and called the Diavolo. My model was called the America's Cup Edition and they only made 12. Mine has been completely rebuilt and is absolutely stunning. Anyway I was talking to the mechanics at the Marina about my desire to build a diesel Poker Run Boat and they said why don't you just bring the hull in and fit s couple of 525's and be done with it......and I said well were the bloody challenge in that.......beyond which, the prospect of motoring out of our quiet bay with BBC's would have people run me out of my own neighbourhood.......I hopped onto OSO and found a gem, a nice soft hulled Baja 40 Outlaw and off we went....
It was around March when I went onto OSO and having done so for years without finding anything and now with my boat already paid for I saw a member named kidturbo talking about marinising a Duramax diesel.........we chatted about a day or two and after Ken understood what I was trying to do and after I asked if he would like to run the project, we were underway.
Now all I can say is that Ken has delivered on every milestone and without me never flying anywhere to see anyone. You see us Aussies are brothers of the Yanks, having fought many wars together, the Aussies are inclined to trust a boy from Ohio, Ken, with everything. That's just the way Ken and I have rolled and I have not looked back.......
So now you are looking at a project that should have engines ready for dyno runs in two weeks, then let's just watch the rest of the project unfold from here.......
This project should have the establishment sitting up and wondering what the **** was that boat that went past, which made no noise on its approach but upon passing it sounded like a jet, with four 64mm NRE symmetrical turbos spinning st 300,000rpm..........at 2.6mpg at 100mph and not an engine rebuild in site......no stress.
Cheers - Aussie Dave
08-08-2016, 11:24 PM
#12
Awsome project Dave !
I van voth for ken as I had the pleasure to meet him beginning of this year when I was in Miami for the boat show and after we had contact on the forums, fb and by email it was a great experience and he showed me around and introduce me to some very nice people over there , he took great care of me ! It's one straight up guy and will build your boat like its his own !
Looking forward on how it end up and will close on this thread and have a lot conversations whit Ken about it !
I van voth for ken as I had the pleasure to meet him beginning of this year when I was in Miami for the boat show and after we had contact on the forums, fb and by email it was a great experience and he showed me around and introduce me to some very nice people over there , he took great care of me ! It's one straight up guy and will build your boat like its his own !
Looking forward on how it end up and will close on this thread and have a lot conversations whit Ken about it !
08-09-2016, 03:42 AM
#13
Registered
Thread Starter
Thanks guys, and especially Dave for allowing me to do this build.
Many of you know I've been a promoter of high horsepower diesels in the performance marine application for quite a few years now. It's not an easy or cheap thing to do correctly. Everything in this market is so geared towards the big OEM gas setups. Limiting the options for what you can even put behind an engine that makes over a thousand foot pounds of torque at 2000rpm. A few other members here like Bor, BobTheBuilder, and Tyson G have shown the potential that can be accomplished when you do get a diesel boat rigged correctly. Thanks to Fabio Buzzi and other racers who did much of the hard work many years before us. With a lot less power than available today I might add.
I've been quietly putting together all the pieces to release a full Duramax conversion kit for little over a year now. Designing hardware and passing pieces along to other boat owners to test. The opportunity to put everything together in a boat the way I would do my own was key to taking on this project. This isn't my full time gig, so I knew I'd need to enlist the skills of a few true professionals along the way. Luckily I've got friends in low places. Ones who live in the bilge of race boats and companies you might know... We'll be joining up in a few weeks for final rigging when all the pieces come together in one place. And while I'd love to design and fab every piece myself, sometimes you've gotta go with what's out there. Like these Custom Marine manifolds. I built a pair in house for a buddy last year, but decided to sub these out and save time. Not even polished yet, they still look better than mine.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558117[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]558118[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]558119[/ATTACH]
Many of you know I've been a promoter of high horsepower diesels in the performance marine application for quite a few years now. It's not an easy or cheap thing to do correctly. Everything in this market is so geared towards the big OEM gas setups. Limiting the options for what you can even put behind an engine that makes over a thousand foot pounds of torque at 2000rpm. A few other members here like Bor, BobTheBuilder, and Tyson G have shown the potential that can be accomplished when you do get a diesel boat rigged correctly. Thanks to Fabio Buzzi and other racers who did much of the hard work many years before us. With a lot less power than available today I might add.
I've been quietly putting together all the pieces to release a full Duramax conversion kit for little over a year now. Designing hardware and passing pieces along to other boat owners to test. The opportunity to put everything together in a boat the way I would do my own was key to taking on this project. This isn't my full time gig, so I knew I'd need to enlist the skills of a few true professionals along the way. Luckily I've got friends in low places. Ones who live in the bilge of race boats and companies you might know... We'll be joining up in a few weeks for final rigging when all the pieces come together in one place. And while I'd love to design and fab every piece myself, sometimes you've gotta go with what's out there. Like these Custom Marine manifolds. I built a pair in house for a buddy last year, but decided to sub these out and save time. Not even polished yet, they still look better than mine.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558117[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]558118[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]558119[/ATTACH]
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Samer (11-10-2023)
08-10-2016, 03:56 PM
#14
Registered
Looks like an exciting project, curious to see how those Duramax motors hold up to 30-40lbs boost for extended periods.
Others have struggled to get the performance numbers with reliability out of them even with forged internals.
Headers look a really nice job if these are anything to go by I am sure the motors will be a work of art.
I went with 800-1200hp Seateks in my project, heavier for sure but built to last especially the later 10L units.
Zf305s were the only transmissions I could find that would handle the torque with a decent overdrive ratio coupled to ASD8s on six blade Rollas
What is your final prop speed going to be.
J
Others have struggled to get the performance numbers with reliability out of them even with forged internals.
Headers look a really nice job if these are anything to go by I am sure the motors will be a work of art.
I went with 800-1200hp Seateks in my project, heavier for sure but built to last especially the later 10L units.
Zf305s were the only transmissions I could find that would handle the torque with a decent overdrive ratio coupled to ASD8s on six blade Rollas
What is your final prop speed going to be.
J
Last edited by 999JAY; 08-10-2016 at 04:24 PM.
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Samer (11-10-2023)
08-11-2016, 01:01 AM
#16
Registered
Thread Starter
I've always liked that Seatek platform, and also spoke with ZF a couple times about building 2-speed trans for another project. However when I told ZF I was going to be making over 1500flbs of torque they wouldn't even consider selling me a 30x unit. Wanted me to jump up the the 320 series I believe, which wights in at like 800lbs. So I wrote that off as an option... They remain the only marine 2-spd OD out there far as I know.
For the moment transmissions on this build are kinda up in the air. I missed out on a used pair of Tyson's 2-speeds that were listed for sale on here a few months back. I really wanted to use those because they had a 1.5:1 first and 1:1 second gears. While in Sarasota last month someone told me Bob Bull has a few sets of them laying around his shop, but I've yet to contact him. So far, leading contender is Dave Coan's XMT units which are rated for 2000hp.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558211[/ATTACH]
Very compact at only 12" long, but only gearing option is a 1.82:1 first which has me holding off for the moment. Dave and I talked about maybe doing 3spds couple weeks ago because those have wider 2nd gear options. That adds another 5" on the case and moves everything forward.
Nice thing about the WMD's is Pat's unlimited gearing options. While they've actually been driving me bonkers working around the 15" or 21" X- dimension setup depending on case placement, the gearing makes it worth the troubles. Digging through the crates of parts I found "one" gear pair with 31x34 tooth count. That gives us a 1.096:1 or 0.91:1 option. I'm gonna start with the first, but if torque is still good at 4000r, I'll flip them over to make a .91 final. Goal is to get the prop speed up in the 3500r range, mid 30's pitch on a 18" dia.
As for the Duramax living with 40lbs of boost over long periods, I took that into consideration with the bottom end. I went with pressurized pin oiling rods since the wrist pin bushings are the first thing to wear out. I also stayed with cast pistons vs forged. Stock they use oil passages to cool the piston. Forged doesn't have it. And like the piston you posted, the Mahle cast have that hardened upper ring land. I then had the bowl oval cut and TBC applied to the tops. My old boat has those same pistons without the mods, and are still going strong at 300hrs at 700hp.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558213[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]558214[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]558215[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]558216[/ATTACH]
For the moment transmissions on this build are kinda up in the air. I missed out on a used pair of Tyson's 2-speeds that were listed for sale on here a few months back. I really wanted to use those because they had a 1.5:1 first and 1:1 second gears. While in Sarasota last month someone told me Bob Bull has a few sets of them laying around his shop, but I've yet to contact him. So far, leading contender is Dave Coan's XMT units which are rated for 2000hp.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558211[/ATTACH]
Very compact at only 12" long, but only gearing option is a 1.82:1 first which has me holding off for the moment. Dave and I talked about maybe doing 3spds couple weeks ago because those have wider 2nd gear options. That adds another 5" on the case and moves everything forward.
Nice thing about the WMD's is Pat's unlimited gearing options. While they've actually been driving me bonkers working around the 15" or 21" X- dimension setup depending on case placement, the gearing makes it worth the troubles. Digging through the crates of parts I found "one" gear pair with 31x34 tooth count. That gives us a 1.096:1 or 0.91:1 option. I'm gonna start with the first, but if torque is still good at 4000r, I'll flip them over to make a .91 final. Goal is to get the prop speed up in the 3500r range, mid 30's pitch on a 18" dia.
As for the Duramax living with 40lbs of boost over long periods, I took that into consideration with the bottom end. I went with pressurized pin oiling rods since the wrist pin bushings are the first thing to wear out. I also stayed with cast pistons vs forged. Stock they use oil passages to cool the piston. Forged doesn't have it. And like the piston you posted, the Mahle cast have that hardened upper ring land. I then had the bowl oval cut and TBC applied to the tops. My old boat has those same pistons without the mods, and are still going strong at 300hrs at 700hp.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558213[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]558214[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]558215[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]558216[/ATTACH]
Last edited by kidturbo; 08-11-2016 at 01:12 AM.
08-20-2016, 01:28 PM
#18
Registered
ZF 305 is rated to 1500lbs + on overdrive ratio, most of the fast military boats with the Seateks run ZF301s 1-1 ratio and I haven't seen any fail the gears are substantial, Only disadvantage is you will only have a single speed box and they weigh in at 200lbs for either the 305 or the 301
Will the Duramax have enough off boost torque to spin the prop up if you went with a single speed box, if not you could always try a vent tube if you carnt find any two speed units.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558500[/ATTACH]
Will the Duramax have enough off boost torque to spin the prop up if you went with a single speed box, if not you could always try a vent tube if you carnt find any two speed units.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558500[/ATTACH]
08-20-2016, 01:41 PM
#19
Registered
Here's the 305 on the back of the Seatek, as you can see they are a big box, no worries about failure especially when coupled to the Arneson/BPM unit I have put together.
Not sure if you have enough room on the back of your engine but they might be worth contemplating if you get stuck.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558502[/ATTACH]
Not sure if you have enough room on the back of your engine but they might be worth contemplating if you get stuck.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]558502[/ATTACH]
08-20-2016, 01:53 PM
#20
Registered
That's nearly the same prop speed I have calculated
3100r engine/0.88 box = 3522r prop I could push the motors up to 3300r if needed to give 3750r prop.
17x29 - 17.25x32 four, five, and six blade to play with should get somewhere close to 110mph
3100r engine/0.88 box = 3522r prop I could push the motors up to 3300r if needed to give 3750r prop.
17x29 - 17.25x32 four, five, and six blade to play with should get somewhere close to 110mph
