Interesting letter
03-04-2006, 12:52 PM
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Interesting letter
I'm posting this letter I received the other day, this letter was very interesting to read and I thought I would share it with some of you. If this thread becomes a biching contest I WILL delete the thread.
SIDE NOTE THIS LETTER WAS DATED DEC 6 05' I am unaware of the OSS Responce can someone please help
Dear Paul,
I recently had back to back discussions with other OSS members and SBI
officials regarding the dilemma of holding a joint 2006 World Championship
event in Key West. From these discussions, it became obvious that each group
is searching for a way to make this happen. However, it appears there is no
direct contact between the two organizations.
The consensus of my conversations is that each organization wants to remain
autonomous. And, having two offshore racing organizations, is good for the
sport. However, the downside is that each organization is competing for the
small group of race teams where the two organization's classes overlap. This
will continue indefinitely until one of three things happens. 1) One
organization acquires the other through a mutually agreeable financial
agreement. 2) One organization fails financially and ceases to exist. 3) The
two organizations can agree to mutually recognize each other, acknowledging
each organizations right to autonomy, and develop a plan to operate
concurrently under a mutually acceptable set of guidelines.
The mechanism for option 3 above, mutual recognition and autonomy is
currently in place. It comes through APBA Detroit in the form of recognizing
member clubs and associations to conduct powerboat racing events. With the
merger of SBI and APBA Offshore, the current SBI/APBA organization was
compelled to keep this concept as part of the APBA Detroit licensing
agreement. Under this provision, any powerboat club or association can
become a member club of APBA. In doing so, the club or association agrees to
abide by the APBA racing rules for the category under which it becomes a
member. I have discussed this with John Carbonnell and he has acknowledged
that under the APBA licensing agreement, he is bound to this concept and
would have to recognize a club or association who wished to become a member
under this provision.
The precedent for this type of member association recognition was
established when the Great Lakes Silver Cup Series (GLSC) was recognized as
a Member Association of APBA Offshore. Under that program, GLSC had its own
officers, membership rules, membership fees, equipment registration fees,
race schedule, race officials and inspectors, safety team, insurance,
television series, etc. It was an autonomous organization within the APBA
Offshore category.
It appears, that the APBA member club and association provisions of the APBA
(Detroit) Offshore Category licensing agreement could be the avenue by which
SBI, APBA, and OSS can find common ground. It is my understanding that the
APBA license is between APBA and an entity named World Powerboat Racing
(WPR). WPR, which is owned by John Carbonnell, has contracted SBI to manage
and conduct powerboat races under the licensing agreement. SBI, under this
contract, administers and maintains the General and Technical rules for the
APBA offshore category, and conducts category powerboat races. SBI is a
separate entity from WPR, who holds the APBA Offshore license.
Within the APBA-WPR-SBI arrangement, there is an opportunity for OSS to
become an APBA Member Association. This would be something very similar to
the GLSC/APBA scenario, under which OSS would be an autonomous organization
with its own officers, membership, membership rules, equipment fees, race
schedule, safety team, officials and inspectors, etc. Both OSS and SBI would
conduct their respective racing events under a standard set of APBA General
and Technical rules. In the GLSC Association, GLSC decided which race
classes it would offer, and established race procedures for those classes at
its events. The same latitudes would apply to an OSS/APBA Association.
Equipment owner representation and participation is the heart of OSS. In
2003, APBA Offshore established an owner representation program that, for
all practical purposes, is identical to the current OSS owner representation
program. The APBA owner representation program became part of the license
agreement between APBA and WPR. Under an OSS/APBA association membership
program, OSS team owners would have the same voice in determining their
respective class rules within APBA as they currently have with OSS.
As you can see, there are many positive reasons to explore the possibility
of OSS becoming a member association of the APBA Offshore Category. This
could be a win-win situation; a move that would be universally recognized as
an action taken by both groups for the betterment of the sport. The most
expedient way to move this line of thinking forward is a meeting between
yourself and John Carbonnell. John has expressed to me that he is willing to
participate in such a meeting, and has asked me to contact you to see if you
would be willing open the lines of communication.
I understand that you and Gerry Chastelet are planning to meet with Bill
Spotswood in a couple of weeks to discuss OSS participation in the 2006 Key
West World Championships. My suggestion is that while you are in Key West,
it would be an excellent opportunity to meet with John to discuss the
aforementioned possibilities. If you would like, you can call me and I will
make the arrangements for a time and place for the meeting at a neutral
location I'm thinking one of the conference rooms at a Spotswood hotel.
As John and I have discussed, the primary goal of the meeting would be to go
in, discuss the possibilities, and come out either as partners, or friends,
but certainly not enemies. The very least that would happen is the
development of open communications between OSS and SBI/APBA.
Thank you in advance.
Ken Doyle
SIDE NOTE THIS LETTER WAS DATED DEC 6 05' I am unaware of the OSS Responce can someone please help
Dear Paul,
I recently had back to back discussions with other OSS members and SBI
officials regarding the dilemma of holding a joint 2006 World Championship
event in Key West. From these discussions, it became obvious that each group
is searching for a way to make this happen. However, it appears there is no
direct contact between the two organizations.
The consensus of my conversations is that each organization wants to remain
autonomous. And, having two offshore racing organizations, is good for the
sport. However, the downside is that each organization is competing for the
small group of race teams where the two organization's classes overlap. This
will continue indefinitely until one of three things happens. 1) One
organization acquires the other through a mutually agreeable financial
agreement. 2) One organization fails financially and ceases to exist. 3) The
two organizations can agree to mutually recognize each other, acknowledging
each organizations right to autonomy, and develop a plan to operate
concurrently under a mutually acceptable set of guidelines.
The mechanism for option 3 above, mutual recognition and autonomy is
currently in place. It comes through APBA Detroit in the form of recognizing
member clubs and associations to conduct powerboat racing events. With the
merger of SBI and APBA Offshore, the current SBI/APBA organization was
compelled to keep this concept as part of the APBA Detroit licensing
agreement. Under this provision, any powerboat club or association can
become a member club of APBA. In doing so, the club or association agrees to
abide by the APBA racing rules for the category under which it becomes a
member. I have discussed this with John Carbonnell and he has acknowledged
that under the APBA licensing agreement, he is bound to this concept and
would have to recognize a club or association who wished to become a member
under this provision.
The precedent for this type of member association recognition was
established when the Great Lakes Silver Cup Series (GLSC) was recognized as
a Member Association of APBA Offshore. Under that program, GLSC had its own
officers, membership rules, membership fees, equipment registration fees,
race schedule, race officials and inspectors, safety team, insurance,
television series, etc. It was an autonomous organization within the APBA
Offshore category.
It appears, that the APBA member club and association provisions of the APBA
(Detroit) Offshore Category licensing agreement could be the avenue by which
SBI, APBA, and OSS can find common ground. It is my understanding that the
APBA license is between APBA and an entity named World Powerboat Racing
(WPR). WPR, which is owned by John Carbonnell, has contracted SBI to manage
and conduct powerboat races under the licensing agreement. SBI, under this
contract, administers and maintains the General and Technical rules for the
APBA offshore category, and conducts category powerboat races. SBI is a
separate entity from WPR, who holds the APBA Offshore license.
Within the APBA-WPR-SBI arrangement, there is an opportunity for OSS to
become an APBA Member Association. This would be something very similar to
the GLSC/APBA scenario, under which OSS would be an autonomous organization
with its own officers, membership, membership rules, equipment fees, race
schedule, safety team, officials and inspectors, etc. Both OSS and SBI would
conduct their respective racing events under a standard set of APBA General
and Technical rules. In the GLSC Association, GLSC decided which race
classes it would offer, and established race procedures for those classes at
its events. The same latitudes would apply to an OSS/APBA Association.
Equipment owner representation and participation is the heart of OSS. In
2003, APBA Offshore established an owner representation program that, for
all practical purposes, is identical to the current OSS owner representation
program. The APBA owner representation program became part of the license
agreement between APBA and WPR. Under an OSS/APBA association membership
program, OSS team owners would have the same voice in determining their
respective class rules within APBA as they currently have with OSS.
As you can see, there are many positive reasons to explore the possibility
of OSS becoming a member association of the APBA Offshore Category. This
could be a win-win situation; a move that would be universally recognized as
an action taken by both groups for the betterment of the sport. The most
expedient way to move this line of thinking forward is a meeting between
yourself and John Carbonnell. John has expressed to me that he is willing to
participate in such a meeting, and has asked me to contact you to see if you
would be willing open the lines of communication.
I understand that you and Gerry Chastelet are planning to meet with Bill
Spotswood in a couple of weeks to discuss OSS participation in the 2006 Key
West World Championships. My suggestion is that while you are in Key West,
it would be an excellent opportunity to meet with John to discuss the
aforementioned possibilities. If you would like, you can call me and I will
make the arrangements for a time and place for the meeting at a neutral
location I'm thinking one of the conference rooms at a Spotswood hotel.
As John and I have discussed, the primary goal of the meeting would be to go
in, discuss the possibilities, and come out either as partners, or friends,
but certainly not enemies. The very least that would happen is the
development of open communications between OSS and SBI/APBA.
Thank you in advance.
Ken Doyle
Last edited by Shane B; 03-04-2006 at 01:51 PM.
03-04-2006, 01:16 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
Interesting. Love to see the reply too.
How much would OPA have to pay to run races under the APBA banner and who would recieve that money?
How much would OPA have to pay to run races under the APBA banner and who would recieve that money?
Last edited by Ron P; 03-04-2006 at 01:19 PM.
03-04-2006, 01:19 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
Originally Posted by Ron P
Interesting. How much would OPA have to pay to run races under the APBA banner and who would recieve that money?
03-04-2006, 02:23 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
Very interesting. I did just last week send in the membership fess. OPA is a member of APBA. I thought however JC has the rights to Offshore. Can someone clarify?
03-04-2006, 02:31 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
Originally Posted by Shane B
Ron I have no Idea? That would be something you would have to ask APBA Detroit or SBI
03-04-2006, 02:40 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
As Stan Ware has represented, this letter was never presented to nor voted on by the teams. It is clear that there is some blockage to information being passed prior to the decision making process. If the teams or reps did not see the effort being made byAPBA/SBI and never got a say in whether the issues are surmountable then we have a major malfunction and OSS would be no better than the tyranny they complained of as the basis for breaking away. I may be wrong though. I would hope that all of the OSS members knew of this offer, had an opportunity to discuss the issues and made an informed decision. Making moves that are for the "betterment of the sport" is much more than moving your lips, its about actions. It is clear that any one organization that is unwilling to comprimise is nothing more than an obstruction to the true well being of offshore racing. I cannot imagine why this offer was not even responded to.
I am willing to bet that money for teams willing to run Key West is out there. I am willing to pledge some of my own $$ to help a team and I know there are others that feel the same way. The time is now to call this issue out. If you havent noticed yet, offshore racing is on its last leg. Post the issue in the general section and watch what happens... the fans, the poker runners that support your sponsors are tired of it , and having 2 worlds running at the same time is an insult to many people that want to support you but also want to be in a venue that is rich with history. Lets get it fixed or just say F it.........
Disclaimer: I also want to say that none of the above should be construed as negative comments made about a Racing organization; its staff & officials, and fellow racers. I am not intending to cast bad light, negative feelings or problems for any of the above. I have read, edited and re-read my posts to ensure that I am in full compliance with OSO Admins rules. If there are complaints about my posts bring them to my attention first and I will rectify the problem. I dont need Steve PO'd at me.
I am willing to bet that money for teams willing to run Key West is out there. I am willing to pledge some of my own $$ to help a team and I know there are others that feel the same way. The time is now to call this issue out. If you havent noticed yet, offshore racing is on its last leg. Post the issue in the general section and watch what happens... the fans, the poker runners that support your sponsors are tired of it , and having 2 worlds running at the same time is an insult to many people that want to support you but also want to be in a venue that is rich with history. Lets get it fixed or just say F it.........
Disclaimer: I also want to say that none of the above should be construed as negative comments made about a Racing organization; its staff & officials, and fellow racers. I am not intending to cast bad light, negative feelings or problems for any of the above. I have read, edited and re-read my posts to ensure that I am in full compliance with OSO Admins rules. If there are complaints about my posts bring them to my attention first and I will rectify the problem. I dont need Steve PO'd at me.
Last edited by dhlaw; 03-04-2006 at 02:46 PM.
03-04-2006, 03:20 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
Interesting letter.
Dlaw ...Offshore is NOT on it's last leg.
(Guesstamates)
45 OSS teams
50 OPA teams
35+? SBI teams 70 teams @kw!!
Not to mention the midwest and West Coasties.
OPA is shaping up to have one it's most exciting years. OSS has an unbelievable schedule and SBI is breaking new ground in ASIA. How cool is that.
Lighten up a bit.
It may not be optimized...but it's heart beat is strong.
Marc
AMF Offshore Racing Team
Dlaw ...Offshore is NOT on it's last leg.
(Guesstamates)
45 OSS teams
50 OPA teams
35+? SBI teams 70 teams @kw!!
Not to mention the midwest and West Coasties.
OPA is shaping up to have one it's most exciting years. OSS has an unbelievable schedule and SBI is breaking new ground in ASIA. How cool is that.
Lighten up a bit.
It may not be optimized...but it's heart beat is strong.
Marc
AMF Offshore Racing Team
Last edited by Maximus; 03-04-2006 at 06:28 PM.
03-04-2006, 04:58 PM
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Re: Interesting letter
I Say Give It Time , I Know, For A Fact, Jc And Paul Have Talked. Now It Is Best For The Sport To Let The Owners And Chairpeople Work This Out . I Know I Will Be In Discussions On This For A Possible Resolution. I Do Mean Possible,now Second Point This Should Not Be Dicussed By You Non Racing Members, This Will Ruin All Credibility Of All Sactioning Bodies. Leave It Up To Us To Work To Resolve, You Have No Idea How Hard This Is.
I Was Racing When We Had Over 125 Boats At A World Chapionship, Sarasota, And Many Others.
Let Us Do Our Jobs, Which With All These Boats Registered, We Are In All Bodies,oss,sbi-apba,opa And Working Together Like Oss And Opa,we Will Get It Done Or We Will Move On. This Letter Was Nothing But A Invite To Discuss. Nothing Else. Great Letter Ken I Know We Will Continue To Work On This, I Will Make Sure Of That.i Hope To See You At A Few Of Our Races And Invite All Apba And Opa Racers To Our Events. We Welcome All With Open Arms, Just Ask Instagator.
Lets Keep This Positive.
Mike Stancombe
I Was Racing When We Had Over 125 Boats At A World Chapionship, Sarasota, And Many Others.
Let Us Do Our Jobs, Which With All These Boats Registered, We Are In All Bodies,oss,sbi-apba,opa And Working Together Like Oss And Opa,we Will Get It Done Or We Will Move On. This Letter Was Nothing But A Invite To Discuss. Nothing Else. Great Letter Ken I Know We Will Continue To Work On This, I Will Make Sure Of That.i Hope To See You At A Few Of Our Races And Invite All Apba And Opa Racers To Our Events. We Welcome All With Open Arms, Just Ask Instagator.
Lets Keep This Positive.
Mike Stancombe
