Changes needed
12-01-2006, 11:56 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Changes needed
Ok Velocity lovers and non lovers! In a perfect world, what do YOU think Velocity needs to do or change on current models? As the new GM at Velocity I really want to gather this info and put it to good use! Mild to Wild, I want to hear it all.
12-01-2006, 11:08 PM
#2
Registered
Re: Changes needed
I will start out by saying that I do indeed think that Steve has a product that is awsome,it is fast and it more times than not will out perform other boats of the same size with the same power in the smooth or rough water.NO steps or ventilated hulls just a good basic design that works.It is a boat that has to be driven not just pointed and steered like some others but I like that.One thing that is a major problem is when building high dollar play toys more attention to the small things needs to be addressed like making sure that the boat is sealed and prepared properly so that no water can penatrate and cause problems.Also I think Steve needs to market the product differently like Fountain,Outerlimits,Skater,MTI and even Baja do they advertise speeds,what power,usually a name brand that people trust.I also think that the company needs to make a statement about how well the hull works by putting togethjer a serious piece of equipment and put some serious numbers on the board so that people notice not a boat that has a motor home interior and wood grain dash,performance boat people could care less.One more thing when you kick ass on the OFFSHORE circuit apparently it works put together a factory sponsored team.a serious team in a serious boat and once again make a statement,apparently it is working for others.I will think of more and post later.
12-02-2006, 11:10 AM
#3
Registered
Re: Changes needed
To start I'm going to acknowledge that I am not a real popular visitor to this site, I do have a tendenacy to stir things up here. But I was a Velocity owner for eight years, owned what was and still is, I understand, the quickest 32 out there. I have spent time at the wheel of every model Steve produced with exception of the 36 and the new 322. I have been close to, or over 100 MPH in most every one of those hulls. I do have a lot of experience with the line, and some of that is from a perspective that few here have had the opportunity to experience.
My first suggestion to you would be to first decide where Velocity as a brand wants to go in the future. Are you trying to stay true to the roots of the brand, a slightly hardcore hot rod not intended for everyone ? Or is your intention to broaden the appeal of the brand and market it to a larger group of buyers ? What I have seen over the recent past strikes me that the company is somewhat confused in terms of it's direction. Formula for example has upped their performance level with their Fastech hulls, but has remained true to their heritage of having cushy interiors and lots of creature comforts, even at the cost of a few MPH. They continue to build a very highly detailed boat, quality materials executed with a great deal of attention to the details, aimed at those who appreciate the gentleman's approach to our sport. Fountain, not well liked here, has been focused on improving the performance numbers of the entire line, obviously Reggie feels that is where his line needs to shine to continue it's appeal to his buyers. But at the same time realizes that they want the speed in a hull that handles and rides well, and has some of the creature comforts as well, not as much as the Formula buyer, and not to the extent that the performance numbers suffer. He has recently begun to restyle the cockpits which have been the same for many years. My take here is he realizes his buyer is moving up in age and those buyers will demand these changes. You need to give the buyer a reason to want that new model. The quality control remains, attention to details as well. He has become more flexible in terms of some custom options, paint etc., but stays focused on the use of recognized Merc power, and stresses the performance achived with it. Has this worked, well he sells more boats per year than any other builder out there, and his customers keep coming back for another one, I'm starting to think a 38 or 42 might be in the cards for me now. Outerlimits has found success in the small niche at the high end of the market, they don't even wish to appeal to the masses, only the two dozen or so per year willing to ante up the big bucks to own the totally custom boat. I could never join that group, but for Fiore and his company it has been sucessful. Point here is decide where you want to be for your customers, then do it with consistency, quality, attention to detail, and most importantly back up what you build. Both on a consumer and dealer level. Baja has had great success as an entry level performance builder, primarly by sticking to the basics and over the years trying to offer their buyer a decent product at a modest price. Velocity's price structure over the past years has risen to the level of some of the other builders, but the build level has not necessarily come up to the same elevated level. Not being critical of a business attempt to get the most the market will bear for a product, I attempt to do that in my own business, but many percieve the cost to be not in line with what is being offered.
Should Velocity build a step bottom ? Maybe not, I know how Steve feels about this, don't totally agree, but if he choses not to that is fine. There is a market for his design, it's proven, he is still building boats. But you do need to step up the quality control. Pay attention to the details of whatever design you chose to build and stand behind the product. Velocity can build a better product, but to do so will need to start at the top and then be implemented all the way down thru the company, with every employee focused on the product being the best it can be. The bottom line here IMO is not as much to do with what you choose to build, but in how you go about actually building it. Styling is only on the surface, some will approve and some will not, but build quality and the attention to details are the backbone of any product and where you stand to gain the most. Come back to me with any questions you may have and I'll try to give you honest answers, I really am not the a$$hole many here think I am.
My first suggestion to you would be to first decide where Velocity as a brand wants to go in the future. Are you trying to stay true to the roots of the brand, a slightly hardcore hot rod not intended for everyone ? Or is your intention to broaden the appeal of the brand and market it to a larger group of buyers ? What I have seen over the recent past strikes me that the company is somewhat confused in terms of it's direction. Formula for example has upped their performance level with their Fastech hulls, but has remained true to their heritage of having cushy interiors and lots of creature comforts, even at the cost of a few MPH. They continue to build a very highly detailed boat, quality materials executed with a great deal of attention to the details, aimed at those who appreciate the gentleman's approach to our sport. Fountain, not well liked here, has been focused on improving the performance numbers of the entire line, obviously Reggie feels that is where his line needs to shine to continue it's appeal to his buyers. But at the same time realizes that they want the speed in a hull that handles and rides well, and has some of the creature comforts as well, not as much as the Formula buyer, and not to the extent that the performance numbers suffer. He has recently begun to restyle the cockpits which have been the same for many years. My take here is he realizes his buyer is moving up in age and those buyers will demand these changes. You need to give the buyer a reason to want that new model. The quality control remains, attention to details as well. He has become more flexible in terms of some custom options, paint etc., but stays focused on the use of recognized Merc power, and stresses the performance achived with it. Has this worked, well he sells more boats per year than any other builder out there, and his customers keep coming back for another one, I'm starting to think a 38 or 42 might be in the cards for me now. Outerlimits has found success in the small niche at the high end of the market, they don't even wish to appeal to the masses, only the two dozen or so per year willing to ante up the big bucks to own the totally custom boat. I could never join that group, but for Fiore and his company it has been sucessful. Point here is decide where you want to be for your customers, then do it with consistency, quality, attention to detail, and most importantly back up what you build. Both on a consumer and dealer level. Baja has had great success as an entry level performance builder, primarly by sticking to the basics and over the years trying to offer their buyer a decent product at a modest price. Velocity's price structure over the past years has risen to the level of some of the other builders, but the build level has not necessarily come up to the same elevated level. Not being critical of a business attempt to get the most the market will bear for a product, I attempt to do that in my own business, but many percieve the cost to be not in line with what is being offered.
Should Velocity build a step bottom ? Maybe not, I know how Steve feels about this, don't totally agree, but if he choses not to that is fine. There is a market for his design, it's proven, he is still building boats. But you do need to step up the quality control. Pay attention to the details of whatever design you chose to build and stand behind the product. Velocity can build a better product, but to do so will need to start at the top and then be implemented all the way down thru the company, with every employee focused on the product being the best it can be. The bottom line here IMO is not as much to do with what you choose to build, but in how you go about actually building it. Styling is only on the surface, some will approve and some will not, but build quality and the attention to details are the backbone of any product and where you stand to gain the most. Come back to me with any questions you may have and I'll try to give you honest answers, I really am not the a$$hole many here think I am.
Last edited by RaggedEdge; 12-04-2006 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Point made.
12-02-2006, 01:26 PM
#5
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Middle River, MD
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Changes needed
Originally Posted by RaggedEdge
I really am not the a$$hole many here think I am.
Yea right Ragged.
I believe that if VELOCITY built a 41' with an enclosed cockpit, put two 1500hp engines in it that boat would break Fountains record. That would get everyones attention,but the qwestion is would Steve spend that kind of money.
We also need a VELOCITY on the race course,and not a VR1. A 41' in the Super V class. I for one would love to see that.
12-02-2006, 02:33 PM
#6
Registered
Re: Changes needed
Another thought here. If you were to post a similiar thread in the general forum you likley would recieve more responses from a broader base of boat owners. Just a thought.
12-02-2006, 07:43 PM
#7
Gold Member
Gold Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hollywood, MD
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Changes needed
I've been a velocity owner for just a year now. But what drove me to buying my velocity was value for my dollar. For the amount of money i was willing to spend last year, the velocity offered (by far) more all around value than anything else that was out there.
I would like to see an updated dash on all the models. You look at some of the nortech and MTI dashes and they look incredible. Granted you pay a fortune for those, but it seems to be the way of the future for hi-perf boats. Every year i see more and more boats out there with the molded dash where it looks as if every gauge has its place. To me that immediately sets a boat apart from the pack strictly from a cosmetic stand point.
I'm also a fan of the formed rear seat with handles for 3-4 passengers as standard. Not only does it look nice, but its also much safer and keeps your passengers in their places on rough days.
We've argued over paint styles plenty in the past. I like what fountain has done in offering a couple different levels for different $$ amounts of paint jobs, and then within each level (maybe 2 levels, and a 3rd totally custom option), having a whole bunch of options. I would cover the gamut in styles that are offered then the argument over velocity paint jobs would end.
Also, it doesn't seem like many 360's were made. I'm sure theres a reason that i am unaware of. But 36' seems like a real popular size in the market.
I'm not a pro on the brand, but these are suggestions based just upon what i have seen. You may already be doing some of these things but i may just be uniformed. Which brings me to my next point. I'd like to see more press about whats coming down the line, and what direction the company is taking.
-Lance
ps- I also like the thought of making a canopied boat and putting it in OSS with 525's. Someone out there has gotta have the coin to do that. Anybody? Anybody? Would love to see Mr. Stepp back out on the race course teaching the young'ns a thing or two.
I would like to see an updated dash on all the models. You look at some of the nortech and MTI dashes and they look incredible. Granted you pay a fortune for those, but it seems to be the way of the future for hi-perf boats. Every year i see more and more boats out there with the molded dash where it looks as if every gauge has its place. To me that immediately sets a boat apart from the pack strictly from a cosmetic stand point.
I'm also a fan of the formed rear seat with handles for 3-4 passengers as standard. Not only does it look nice, but its also much safer and keeps your passengers in their places on rough days.
We've argued over paint styles plenty in the past. I like what fountain has done in offering a couple different levels for different $$ amounts of paint jobs, and then within each level (maybe 2 levels, and a 3rd totally custom option), having a whole bunch of options. I would cover the gamut in styles that are offered then the argument over velocity paint jobs would end.
Also, it doesn't seem like many 360's were made. I'm sure theres a reason that i am unaware of. But 36' seems like a real popular size in the market.
I'm not a pro on the brand, but these are suggestions based just upon what i have seen. You may already be doing some of these things but i may just be uniformed. Which brings me to my next point. I'd like to see more press about whats coming down the line, and what direction the company is taking.
-Lance
ps- I also like the thought of making a canopied boat and putting it in OSS with 525's. Someone out there has gotta have the coin to do that. Anybody? Anybody? Would love to see Mr. Stepp back out on the race course teaching the young'ns a thing or two.
12-02-2006, 08:13 PM
#8
Registered
Re: Changes needed
Originally Posted by century29
Would love to see Mr. Stepp back out on the race course teaching the young'ns a thing or two.
12-02-2006, 09:08 PM
#9
Registered
Re: Changes needed
personally I like the flat dash, hell Fountain still gets away with it.
and no pods please, they were a bad styling cue/afterthought that did not fit the rest of the shapes on the boat from the start. Regardless of the rounded shape of the deck "brow", the pods were clearly a patch job/afterthought and looked horrible in profile. The rest of the shapes of the boats are pretty square/right angles.
I have given consideration of going back to a single engine boat. I'll tell 'ya the 26 (280) is a choice. I love the freeboard of the 26>>>
(let's call that boat what it is without an integrated platform, I mean who else would BOLT-ON an platform and call the boat a 280
) When that happened I thought "whats he think he's selling these things to people with a sixth grade education?
>>>and the helm position overall is very good. The allocation of space over it's length is good (sunpad/cockpit/deck,cabin length). It's a good working bottom. That boat is very capable, and responds well to power. As powerboat once said " it'll go anywhere a 30 footer will go and probably get there sooner". It's a big boat for it's size @ 26'3" as it carries alot of beam forward. It feels and drives like a bigger boat than it is. This is GOOD. Throw 600 and change HP at it and poof! 83-85 MPH...a nice place to be.
That hull flat out works if you've got the ballz to run it and DRIVE IT the way the bottom was intended...HIGH on the water with a keen eye for keeping it STRAIGHT and avoiding odd landings..'cause you'll pay for those!
I honestly miss the fun and skill integration to operation that his bottom requires.
so now we're not building them anymore??
BUT...
with all I've seen over the years being close to the brand... I would need to be literally wrapped in warm swaddling clothes to be assured a new improved stance on quality had been taken, and that the boat would be BACKED-UP. That I was going to get a boat that would take a workout (for it's size) in lake Ontario without breaking, (landings on that rolled chine forward put alot of stress into the hullside as it rises to the deck! this is where they seem to blow out! (or in) that it wouldn't delam, take water into the construction, and that the wiring and rigging was custom clean and stout as it should be from a small builder..
don't even talk to me about the 29's. I don't like the look personally, though the lines aren't bad. My interest would be in a hot-rod/flatdeck/pipe platform 26' probably without one of those afterthought acrylic windshields also. The absolutely grossest/goofiest looking thing I have ever seen is those tall framed glass windshields on that trademark Velocity deck. Absolutely f@cking disgusting looking...
that bolt-on fiberglass swim platform was pretty bad too...
no wonder Steve would spend more time golfing than looking at those visual abberations going out the door...
he was hard-core old school that I knew of. It would have to pain him to do this stuff to the design.
The only part of the offering he hasn't rolled over on is the bottom. Thank God.
Everbody who bashed the boats for a stiff ride has to realize this is pretty extreme pad bottom that works best at high speed high on the water, and anything below that there's a compromise!
this is where "confused" comes in (original credit to Ragged (Ragger?) an original HARDCORE bottom designed for speed with all kinds of add-on visually disturbing, fluffy crap and afterthoughts thrown at it to attempt a broader appeal...
HELLO...McFLY?? NOT WORKING!
about quality...
I understand that employee turnover is horrible for that size a builder...you gotta start there though, as they are the ones building the boats! Drilling the hole, mounting stuff, noticing DETAILS, maintaining the finish during completion.
enough for now, but if this sticks I'll be back with more commentary. I'm not a beginner to boating or the brand.
and no pods please, they were a bad styling cue/afterthought that did not fit the rest of the shapes on the boat from the start. Regardless of the rounded shape of the deck "brow", the pods were clearly a patch job/afterthought and looked horrible in profile. The rest of the shapes of the boats are pretty square/right angles.
I have given consideration of going back to a single engine boat. I'll tell 'ya the 26 (280) is a choice. I love the freeboard of the 26>>>
(let's call that boat what it is without an integrated platform, I mean who else would BOLT-ON an platform and call the boat a 280
) When that happened I thought "whats he think he's selling these things to people with a sixth grade education? >>>and the helm position overall is very good. The allocation of space over it's length is good (sunpad/cockpit/deck,cabin length). It's a good working bottom. That boat is very capable, and responds well to power. As powerboat once said " it'll go anywhere a 30 footer will go and probably get there sooner". It's a big boat for it's size @ 26'3" as it carries alot of beam forward. It feels and drives like a bigger boat than it is. This is GOOD. Throw 600 and change HP at it and poof! 83-85 MPH...a nice place to be.
That hull flat out works if you've got the ballz to run it and DRIVE IT the way the bottom was intended...HIGH on the water with a keen eye for keeping it STRAIGHT and avoiding odd landings..'cause you'll pay for those!
I honestly miss the fun and skill integration to operation that his bottom requires.
so now we're not building them anymore??
BUT...
with all I've seen over the years being close to the brand... I would need to be literally wrapped in warm swaddling clothes to be assured a new improved stance on quality had been taken, and that the boat would be BACKED-UP. That I was going to get a boat that would take a workout (for it's size) in lake Ontario without breaking, (landings on that rolled chine forward put alot of stress into the hullside as it rises to the deck! this is where they seem to blow out! (or in) that it wouldn't delam, take water into the construction, and that the wiring and rigging was custom clean and stout as it should be from a small builder..
don't even talk to me about the 29's. I don't like the look personally, though the lines aren't bad. My interest would be in a hot-rod/flatdeck/pipe platform 26' probably without one of those afterthought acrylic windshields also. The absolutely grossest/goofiest looking thing I have ever seen is those tall framed glass windshields on that trademark Velocity deck. Absolutely f@cking disgusting looking...
that bolt-on fiberglass swim platform was pretty bad too...
no wonder Steve would spend more time golfing than looking at those visual abberations going out the door...
he was hard-core old school that I knew of. It would have to pain him to do this stuff to the design.
The only part of the offering he hasn't rolled over on is the bottom. Thank God.
Everbody who bashed the boats for a stiff ride has to realize this is pretty extreme pad bottom that works best at high speed high on the water, and anything below that there's a compromise!
this is where "confused" comes in (original credit to Ragged (Ragger?) an original HARDCORE bottom designed for speed with all kinds of add-on visually disturbing, fluffy crap and afterthoughts thrown at it to attempt a broader appeal...
HELLO...McFLY?? NOT WORKING!
about quality...
I understand that employee turnover is horrible for that size a builder...you gotta start there though, as they are the ones building the boats! Drilling the hole, mounting stuff, noticing DETAILS, maintaining the finish during completion.
enough for now, but if this sticks I'll be back with more commentary. I'm not a beginner to boating or the brand.
Last edited by Rippem; 12-03-2006 at 11:16 PM. Reason: spelling, my bad
12-02-2006, 10:49 PM
#10
Registered
Re: Changes needed
and skip the "concept"/theme boats. Face it your not OL or NT
what a waste of time/money/exposure.
these boats typically get limited press and then grow roots somewhere unsold for a year or more.
put together some plain jane hot-rods in varying sizes with some current paint that's not awkward or off-the-wall, and not loaded down with fluff. Pantera does a good job with this more basic theme.
play on the performance, trustworthiness of the bottom. Play it up and look more traditional hardcore...get back to the roots as they once were early in the Thoroughbred days.
Bang for buck period. with a boat that makes good speed out of power, will take the punishment and not fall apart.
what a waste of time/money/exposure.
these boats typically get limited press and then grow roots somewhere unsold for a year or more.
put together some plain jane hot-rods in varying sizes with some current paint that's not awkward or off-the-wall, and not loaded down with fluff. Pantera does a good job with this more basic theme.
play on the performance, trustworthiness of the bottom. Play it up and look more traditional hardcore...get back to the roots as they once were early in the Thoroughbred days.
Bang for buck period. with a boat that makes good speed out of power, will take the punishment and not fall apart.
Last edited by Rippem; 12-03-2006 at 07:25 AM.
