Fountain claims they have the "Pad Hull"
08-07-2008, 12:42 PM
#31
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I didn't get into the Velocity "scene" until '96 and was basically out of boating in general from '02 up until late last year and lost touch with Steve and the crew in Sanford. What I've posted is based on discussions with Steve and Kim over dinners, on the golf course and at races from '98 - '02 as well as from people like Steve K and others who have been around Steve for a long time.
In '97 or '98 Steve built a 20' jet boat. The explanation I got was that it was an Allison mold that Steve either bought or leased and you are correct, I did get a sense that the relationship between Steve and Darris hasn't always been close. Then again, if you know Steve you know that he's a hard man to deal with day in and day out. Almost everyone i know that's been close to Steve has had points where they just walked away shaking their heads.
Their current 20 boat is a flats boat called the F-20 Bullet. It's pretty obvious it's an Allison.
In '97 or '98 Steve built a 20' jet boat. The explanation I got was that it was an Allison mold that Steve either bought or leased and you are correct, I did get a sense that the relationship between Steve and Darris hasn't always been close. Then again, if you know Steve you know that he's a hard man to deal with day in and day out. Almost everyone i know that's been close to Steve has had points where they just walked away shaking their heads.
Their current 20 boat is a flats boat called the F-20 Bullet. It's pretty obvious it's an Allison.
08-07-2008, 12:52 PM
#32
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Being that you are familiar with the build and design of the 22's. What kind of water was considered "Rough". Any other components to factor in on them having "better rough water ability" such as tabs, etc., etc. ?
Being keenly aware that any 22' boat has it's "limits" out in the open ocean, we wanted to try to build a 22 that would perhaps do better than the typical rocker bottoms of the day - Donzi's & such - in moderately rough stuff and at perhaps a faster pace. We were thinking of a roomy, safe & comfortable pleasure boats for outboards & I/O's, AND the racing class for such a package
that existed at that time. I feel the Velocity 22 excelled at both, and very quickly. APBA however became concerned for the safety of racers out there in the BIG water in little boats & did away with the class.
Other design criteria included: balance, passenger capacity & comfort (deeper cockpit), storage for large items (ski's), turning at speed, hole shot , structural integrity, etc.
Basically all the usual. We saw this boat as a fun & capable sport runabout with superior performance. My own served me well & was tested by Bob Nordskog at Cypress Gardens for his magazine. We were proud of that boat & that review. I feel the velocity 22 actually saved the brand during a difficult business period. I remember Gene Whipp collecting one in Pompano with a stock Mercruiser 260, entering it in a OPBRA race in Lauderdale, ran the race with his daughter Gina & WON his class. Still have pics of Gene & Gina with the checkered.
Being keenly aware that any 22' boat has it's "limits" out in the open ocean, we wanted to try to build a 22 that would perhaps do better than the typical rocker bottoms of the day - Donzi's & such - in moderately rough stuff and at perhaps a faster pace. We were thinking of a roomy, safe & comfortable pleasure boats for outboards & I/O's, AND the racing class for such a package
that existed at that time. I feel the Velocity 22 excelled at both, and very quickly. APBA however became concerned for the safety of racers out there in the BIG water in little boats & did away with the class.
Other design criteria included: balance, passenger capacity & comfort (deeper cockpit), storage for large items (ski's), turning at speed, hole shot , structural integrity, etc.
Basically all the usual. We saw this boat as a fun & capable sport runabout with superior performance. My own served me well & was tested by Bob Nordskog at Cypress Gardens for his magazine. We were proud of that boat & that review. I feel the velocity 22 actually saved the brand during a difficult business period. I remember Gene Whipp collecting one in Pompano with a stock Mercruiser 260, entering it in a OPBRA race in Lauderdale, ran the race with his daughter Gina & WON his class. Still have pics of Gene & Gina with the checkered.
OTOH, I now have an older 22' Donzi Classic and I love it. Sure, the hull isn't as fast and it's not quite as precise in the turns but it does handle the rough better and IMHO it's a better looking boat. Besides, variety is the spice of life so it was time to try something different.
08-07-2008, 01:43 PM
#33
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OTOH, I now have an older 22' Donzi Classic and I love it.
I was Donzi's largest dealer in the mid 70's and have spent many happy hours in them. I loved the classic lines & excellent build quality. My wife & I took the kiddies for a round Florida trip one week in the old Hornet 20 w/ Mercruiser 330. I always wanted more speed & better handling from them however and this love for small boats & speed influenced my thoughts when we conceived the 22 in the old Pompano shop. I had sold about a half dozen Shadow 21's during that time & they were quite nice as well.
The 22 Velocity was a culmination of all those experiences, and lessons learned with the 30' Velocity. The 1'st race won by a Vel. was an OPBRA Ft. Lauderdale event in 2/80 with Stepp on sticks & me sawing the wheel.
I was Donzi's largest dealer in the mid 70's and have spent many happy hours in them. I loved the classic lines & excellent build quality. My wife & I took the kiddies for a round Florida trip one week in the old Hornet 20 w/ Mercruiser 330. I always wanted more speed & better handling from them however and this love for small boats & speed influenced my thoughts when we conceived the 22 in the old Pompano shop. I had sold about a half dozen Shadow 21's during that time & they were quite nice as well.
The 22 Velocity was a culmination of all those experiences, and lessons learned with the 30' Velocity. The 1'st race won by a Vel. was an OPBRA Ft. Lauderdale event in 2/80 with Stepp on sticks & me sawing the wheel.
08-07-2008, 01:57 PM
#34
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Quote..."FACT: In 1978, VELOCITY was the first offshore boat to utilize the “Pad Bottom” and Step (or notched) transom. These two Steve Stepp design features have been copied by more manufactures than any other offshore design in performance power boating history....."
You see..............this is the perfect opportunity to credit Paul & Darris Allison for "their" designs & ideas. Wouldn't it? You may wish to visit the Allison site & read through their "Firsts" section, with such gems as:
"Running PAD on V-bottom boats (1967) Paul figured if a man could ski on a board, so could a boat be lifted higher on a ski attached to the bottom of a shallow (15°), V hull. It worked!! The V-bottom boat has never been the same since!"
and this...
'Deep-V / PAD hull (1968) Paul wanted the boat to ride better in rough water, so a narrower pad on a deeper (20°) V was the answer. The boat was faster, smoother, and turned much quicker. Wal-lah: the best hull ever conceived on a boat."
and this little doozy-
"Set-back (notched) transom (1974) Since the set-back jack plate enhanced boat performance, Darris expanded the concept by building set-back into the boat’s transom. This idea is used today more than ever by nearly every boat manufacturer."
Just giving credit where it's due. Not disputing anything, just pointing to the source. No big deal. The source is Allison, and I thought the topic of this thread was about who done it?
You see..............this is the perfect opportunity to credit Paul & Darris Allison for "their" designs & ideas. Wouldn't it? You may wish to visit the Allison site & read through their "Firsts" section, with such gems as:
"Running PAD on V-bottom boats (1967) Paul figured if a man could ski on a board, so could a boat be lifted higher on a ski attached to the bottom of a shallow (15°), V hull. It worked!! The V-bottom boat has never been the same since!"
and this...
'Deep-V / PAD hull (1968) Paul wanted the boat to ride better in rough water, so a narrower pad on a deeper (20°) V was the answer. The boat was faster, smoother, and turned much quicker. Wal-lah: the best hull ever conceived on a boat."
and this little doozy-
"Set-back (notched) transom (1974) Since the set-back jack plate enhanced boat performance, Darris expanded the concept by building set-back into the boat’s transom. This idea is used today more than ever by nearly every boat manufacturer."
Just giving credit where it's due. Not disputing anything, just pointing to the source. No big deal. The source is Allison, and I thought the topic of this thread was about who done it?
Last edited by wolfeguitars; 08-12-2008 at 03:39 PM. Reason: accuracy
08-07-2008, 09:55 PM
#35
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Well put. And pretty much dead on.
Wasn't Reggies first built the 33 Executioner ?
08-07-2008, 10:50 PM
#36
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I have to agree. Have Picture to prove it just can't figure out how to upload it.
Here's some info straight from Velocities website:
Steve Stepp would like to set the record straight:
FACT: Steve Stepp has no relationship to and/or did not design the “stepped” or ventilated bottom design, which has become so popular in recent years.
FACT: Stepped or ventilated bottom designs cause more boats to spin out and/or barrel roll more than any other hull design in boat building history.
Fact : In the past four years, there have been at least one spin out or barrel roll of a stepped or ventilated bottom boat with a professional driver at nearly every APBA Offshore Event.
FACT: In 1978, VELOCITY was the first offshore boat to utilize the “Pad Bottom” and Step (or notched) transom. These two Steve Stepp design features have been copied by more manufactures than any other offshore design in performance power boating history.
FACT: VELOCITY Powerboats builds SAFETY FIRST into every boat they build and will NOT build a ventilated design.
Here's some info straight from Velocities website:
Steve Stepp would like to set the record straight:
FACT: Steve Stepp has no relationship to and/or did not design the “stepped” or ventilated bottom design, which has become so popular in recent years.
FACT: Stepped or ventilated bottom designs cause more boats to spin out and/or barrel roll more than any other hull design in boat building history.
Fact : In the past four years, there have been at least one spin out or barrel roll of a stepped or ventilated bottom boat with a professional driver at nearly every APBA Offshore Event.
FACT: In 1978, VELOCITY was the first offshore boat to utilize the “Pad Bottom” and Step (or notched) transom. These two Steve Stepp design features have been copied by more manufactures than any other offshore design in performance power boating history.
FACT: VELOCITY Powerboats builds SAFETY FIRST into every boat they build and will NOT build a ventilated design.
FACT : Race boats have been spinning out, rolling over, stuffing, blowing over and just plain gettin' outa shape since the begining days of boat racing. Velocities included. Sure there are more ventilated bottom boats involved in all of the above these days, they are the vast majority of what is on the race course these days. Name all the currently being raced Velocities......................................Sh ort list? Hard to have a racing misshap if your boats never venture out on the race course.
FACT : Someone mentioned the reverse chine,,,,, yes it does help hold a tight corner, helps in popping the boat up on plane also,,,,,, but it also adds to the chine walking and results in a not so nice ride at cruise or in sloppy water. Wonder why it was eliminated from the VR-1 design. Look into that one.
FACT : There are a lot of non step boats still out there working just fine, but they are yesterdays technology. Every major player in the performance boat industry is building step bottom designs of some variation. They are as safe, if not more so due to the more level running attitude and lower angle of attack than the non step versions. The speed is derived from the bottom design as opposed to having to sit the boat on it's tail to free it up to attain the best speed. You will never make me believe, based on ownership for some 8 years of a 32 Velocity that ran just shy of 100 mph, that a boat running on it's tail only at full speed is totaly in control and able to take unexpected water in stride without getting out of shape.
FACT : I'm not saying that a Velocity is an unsafe boat, or a poorly built boat. Just old school tech from a builder that either refuses to come into this new design era, or remains to small and undercapitalized that the complete redesign is financialy out of the question. Or maybe he believes he is better served targeting a small niche market, and is content to stay right there. That being the case, that's fine. Just shouldn't throw the darts at the rest of the industry and its emerging technology as it passes him by.
FACT : Beware the "Spinner Bottom Boats" boys! You might just want one if you ever gave one an honest try.
FACT : Stepper might just get the chance to see one run over the next couple weekends.
Last edited by RaggedEdge; 08-07-2008 at 10:59 PM.
08-07-2008, 11:25 PM
#37
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[QUOTE=RaggedEdge;2648112][B]
FACT : Beware the "Spinner Bottom Boats" boys! You might just want one if you ever gave one an honest try.
Stop a minute, think back when you were pegging the 100 mph mark with that old Velocity speedo, you had to have a tear in your eye. I think deep down you miss the old resin bucket.
FACT : Beware the "Spinner Bottom Boats" boys! You might just want one if you ever gave one an honest try.
Stop a minute, think back when you were pegging the 100 mph mark with that old Velocity speedo, you had to have a tear in your eye. I think deep down you miss the old resin bucket.
08-08-2008, 12:06 AM
#38
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[QUOTE=Velocity Vector;2648140]
FACT : In some respects I do. The thing would accelerate like crazy and was a lot of fun to drive. I have always wanted a Fountain, and now I'm on number two. They are entirely different boats. I had a blast when I was there, just don't want to go back. I just like knowing that no matter what's thrown at this boat it just takes it in stride and keeps on going. Technology Man!!! You just gotta get you some.
Your power in my hull..............KILLER!
[B]
FACT : Beware the "Spinner Bottom Boats" boys! You might just want one if you ever gave one an honest try.
Stop a minute, think back when you were pegging the 100 mph mark with that old Velocity speedo, you had to have a tear in your eye. I think deep down you miss the old resin bucket.
FACT : Beware the "Spinner Bottom Boats" boys! You might just want one if you ever gave one an honest try.
Stop a minute, think back when you were pegging the 100 mph mark with that old Velocity speedo, you had to have a tear in your eye. I think deep down you miss the old resin bucket.
FACT : In some respects I do. The thing would accelerate like crazy and was a lot of fun to drive. I have always wanted a Fountain, and now I'm on number two. They are entirely different boats. I had a blast when I was there, just don't want to go back. I just like knowing that no matter what's thrown at this boat it just takes it in stride and keeps on going. Technology Man!!! You just gotta get you some.
Your power in my hull..............KILLER!
08-08-2008, 07:09 AM
#39
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Old Technology.............time marches on........and on...
Quote....."I'm not saying that a Velocity is an unsafe boat, or a poorly built boat. Just old school tech from a builder that either refuses to come into this new design era, or remains to small and undercapitalized that the complete redesign is financialy out of the question. Or maybe he believes he is better served targeting a small niche market, and is content to stay right there. That being the case, that's fine. Just shouldn't throw the darts at the rest of the industry and its emerging technology as it passes him by. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
Well said. Reminds me of the early days at Velocity with Cigarette, Apache, Sonic, Magnum & the other traditional Vee bottom builders telling prospective buyers to stay clear of that horrible "unsafe" Velocity, that "Won't run rough water, hooks & rolls on fast turns, chine walks wildly, falls apart (often true, sadly), will make you sterile & cause dirty undies to appear on your coffee table when company arrives!!!
We lost our voices countering those old canards at shows. Once we started beating them in sanctioned events..........OK, "and" out on the waterways of So. Florida on weekends, they began to loose credibility, and those top performing Allison designs began to be copied hither & yon. (mostly "yon.")
Well said. Reminds me of the early days at Velocity with Cigarette, Apache, Sonic, Magnum & the other traditional Vee bottom builders telling prospective buyers to stay clear of that horrible "unsafe" Velocity, that "Won't run rough water, hooks & rolls on fast turns, chine walks wildly, falls apart (often true, sadly), will make you sterile & cause dirty undies to appear on your coffee table when company arrives!!!
We lost our voices countering those old canards at shows. Once we started beating them in sanctioned events..........OK, "and" out on the waterways of So. Florida on weekends, they began to loose credibility, and those top performing Allison designs began to be copied hither & yon. (mostly "yon.")
Last edited by wolfeguitars; 08-11-2008 at 07:04 PM.
08-11-2008, 10:00 AM
#40
Gold Member
Lots of good reading in this thread. 
Don't know if it was posted or not but here's the link to Allison's website: www.allisonboats.com
Ol' Paul and Darris really know their stuff when it comes to making boats fast.
It's funny to read some of the "negative" comments towards the Velocity's because I've gotten the same kind in regards to my Allison.
"Those Allison's will hook on ya"
"Too much chine walking"
"Not a rough water boat"
blah, blah, blah.
But in the end, power & weight being equal, there's not another V-bottom that will touch em'.
Don't know if it was posted or not but here's the link to Allison's website: www.allisonboats.com
Ol' Paul and Darris really know their stuff when it comes to making boats fast.
It's funny to read some of the "negative" comments towards the Velocity's because I've gotten the same kind in regards to my Allison. "Those Allison's will hook on ya"
"Too much chine walking"
"Not a rough water boat"
blah, blah, blah.
But in the end, power & weight being equal, there's not another V-bottom that will touch em'.
