38 Special, top speeds achieved
 

I know my boat wasn't designed to be the fastest boat on the water but I'm sure she's able to achieve a bit more speed with the right powertrains.
My 525 SC's are nearing 500 hours and I'm gearing up to either refresh, repower, or rebuild with new cranks/rods to get more displacement.
I'm curious as to what you members have seen or know about some of the higher top speeds that have been achieved with this hull and how much power per side it took to get there.
I currently have stock 525 SC's with the pulley upgrades, sc intercoolers, and extension boxes on my drives. The powertrain survey a few months ago aced the compression and leakdowns. At a minimum I'm going to switch over to a roller cam/lifters from the standard cam/lifters it currently has, a top end freshen up, and have the blowers serviced.
But I'm torn on my decision, I've had quite a few tell me these are tough motors that can deliver some good return based on the stock displacement.
I've decided to sell my and my sons crotch rockets and a couple of ski's that we haven't used this season. Once I do this I'll have the equity necessary to handle the minimum or a great head start on a complete rebuild or repower.
This is a decision I'll have to live with for quite a while after I move forward.
I'm open to all input from the membership.
As always, thanks for y'alls insight, you guys and girls are the best source of quality info I've ever found.

See ya,
Kelly

Question is how fast are you going now ??? How fast do you want to go at top speed ???


Generally speaking, it takes 20 horsepower more to increase 1 MPH. So if you add 200 HP total, you will see an additional 10 MPH in top speed. IMO I think your hull will be limited to a top speed around 80 mph based on the Bravo drives and max power out of your motors.

I can hit low 70's with anything up to 1/2 tank of fuel and 4-5 passengers, it's like I'm hitting a wall. I was hoping to get near 80 or better.
I really don't see gaining an additional 100 hp per side with just a cam/lifter change even if it's more aggressive.
Equally, I don't want to fork out the coin to upsize the mill, or repower, and only walk away with 3 or 4 more mph when a new roller cam/lifters, springs, and valve job would cost much less.
Thanks for your input, I look forward to more.

See ya,
Kelly

Those things are a big azz tank.
Enjoy what it is and crank up the AC when everybody else is sweatin.
Any more power and Drives will be first on the list.

A friend of mine had a 97' w525Sc's that he built up
to somewhere in the 650 hp range, and as I recall
it ran 73ish.....they do seem to hit the wall in the low 70's

That's the same exact speed she ran on the seatrial with my surveyors GPS recording it.
I think I might try playing with props to see if there may be a little to milk out of her.
I'm kind of at the point where I'll probably just go for the roller valvetrain over the flat tappets, respring, see if it needs a valve job or not, and service the blowers.

Your absolutely correct, she's a whole lot of boat to push across the drink. And, it does have all the comforts of a very small apartment.
Well you know how it is, a man just always wants more, LOL !!!

See ya,
Kelly

This is just a thought.

How about going with Arneson #7M's and just have the 525sc's rebuild by a good builder like YPM or Potter ect. to 600 hp or so? Fast and bomb proof. Ask Rik @ Arneson what he thinks would be the speed gain from the drives alone. If the claims of 10 mph from the drive alone, also applies to your boat, and then by "just" adding 75 or so hp per side, you are looking at the most reliable and efficient 82-85+ mph ride ever.

I actually talked to his shop a month ago about the bravo replacement surface drives, they were very expensive.
Afterwords I talked to the Bravo shop about Bmax drives, they were much more affordable but the project would be way higher once added to my repower or rebuild to more displacement as compared to just refreshening.
Now I've hit another wall, the money wall, LOL !!!

I'm curious, what's the fastest 38 Special you've heard of?
If it's only mid to high 70's I won't entertain the additional expenses, if it's more like low to mid 80's I'd have to get quotes to approximate the total costs to determine if it's really worth it or not.

Thank you for all your insight.

See ya,
Kelly

I've never heard of one going over 80

They have a high center of gravity, I know we were
on it's side a couple of times (in my friends boat) when it
fell off the pad ( not a real fun feeling:eek:) at 70+

I wouldnt waste the money trying to make it do something
that it isnt going to be able to do very well.

What you have to look at is, how much the combined cost is to get to fx. 85 mph.

Yes, the Arnies are more expensive, to begin with. But how much do the Bmax cost, when you add hydraulic steering, props ect.? The Arnies only needs props.

Look at it from this angle.
If run 70 with normal load and you get to 80 mph by the Arnesons, no power added, you will need about 600hp pr. side to run 85, as an everyday number. 600 hp from a set of well build 502/509's should run very reliable, and the drives won't even notice the power. This package that consists of 600 hp motors, #7M's props and rigging, has a price of xx,xxx.xx$ + Gas and maintenence = xx,xxx.xx$.

Now a set of Bmax drives are useually a bit slower than standard XR's. More weight, parasitic loss ect. Let's say when running 70 with XR's and then lose 1-2 mph by running Bmax's, you will need atleast 800 hp a side to run 85. Now it gets funny. Add the price of 800 hp motors to the price of Bmax drives with steering and props, then remember the Bmax runs standard xr gears in the lowers (drive rebuild) + the added build price, maintenence and fuel running 800 hp mill's compared to 600 hp mill's.
This package that consists of 800+ hp motors, Bmax drives, steering, props and rigging comes in at xx,xxx.xx$ + gas and maintenence = xx,xxx.xx$.
It get's real expensive real fast. The Bmax drives are good drives for what they are, but they will still be a weak link on the 38 with big power.

I'm not trying to give you 100% accurate numbers here, I know they aren't, it's just a way of looking at it.

What numbers did Rik give you speed wise?

I would buy a diffrent boat.

We didn't discuss speeds, just price. It was mid 40's compared to mid 20's for a pair of surface drives -vs- Bmax drives.
Early last month I'd reached a deal with a seller of a pair of brand new dyno time only supercharged 540 dart engines from Rehrer Morrison with Richard Lee computer controlled fuel injection and all the accessories necessary for an install. He had them here on OSO very briefly for 30k for everything. I got him down to 25 but could only round up half the purchase price on the spot and needed 30 days to fullfill the balance. He took another offer for 3k more than I offered and his buyer closed on the spot.
I was going to install them with Bmax's for 50k after I rounded up the money for the drives.
I know I'll be hard pressed to find another deal like this, all his receipts totalled well over 70k and he was selling ASAP due to a family medical emergency.
Congrats to the OSO member who scored them.

LMAO

Thanks, this really is true and I know it, LOL !!!
I was blessed to find my boat and score it at a good price.
She has great factory history and IMO warrants a better powertrain for more speed if it comes in within a reasonable
cost.
Here's a link to my thread while researching the boat.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/b...know-boat.html
I really do appreciate the reality check you offered me.
Members like yourself pointing out the truth is why I love this site

See ya,
Kelly

I guarantee you will lose more than 1-2 mph with BMax drives but they can handle alot of HP.

Just being conservative.:drink: Trying not offend anyone.:party-smiley-004:
They still run the xr lower junk gears thou.

Keep the boat stock and buy a bass boat to get your speed fix. Go out early in the morning when the water is smooth. Then take the big boat out when the water is rough and don't worry about top speed.

+++++++++++++++++++++++ 1

I thought somone would like that one........ LOL

Hey Kelly - Going to revive this old thread... Did you ever do anything with the power in your boat. I ask as I am in the same boat as you so to speak. If you recall, I have 540/250 combo's in my 38 turning 4 blade 28's. So far we have achived a top speed of 74mph @5000rpm. Although I am happy with this number, I kinda expected a little more. Thoughts?

I rigged one last year with 600hp 502's. It ran about 72. This is not the boat to go chasing speed numbers with. You will spend a fortune to get 78-80 out of it. You'll need 7-750hp minimum.

I would think Juan's motors are in the low 700hp range, I am surprised to here that a boat with 575hp from Baja runs 74mph and a boat with 600hp runs 72mph (basically the same not doubting the numbers) and when we ran Juan’s this past Sunday we got 74mph at 5000rpm with approx. 700hp. Of course it could have been driver error (as I was driving) but I was trimming this think to the moon ( well past the top of the trim indicators) and it made very little difference from midway on up. I never blew the props out or anything but it didn’t change the bow pitch much either. i was wondering if anyone knew what the optimum X dimension was for this hull?

Still nursing the old mill's LOL!!!

I just scored another complete 525SC (recently top end and blower refreshed) that was for sale here a couple of months ago by an engine buider that listed in swap shop with his dyno pulls at a fair price and had purchased a 454 short block from here last summer with these specs

"I have a brand new 468CI short block.
Just assembled by OWEN's racing engine of Pearland Texas.
Forged Callies 4" crank
1/4" over length Manley H beam rods.
L19 bolts
H bearings
JE 7.5:1 forged pistons
Just put it together in Sept 2012"

I'm looking for a set of heads to make it a 525SC clone.
I figured take the affordable route for now, remove mine, refresh my blowers, and put them and my chillers on the new engines.
Then I can go through mine at my leisure while rebuilding.
I slso just scored the week before last a pair of new in box SCAT 4340 cranks, 2 sets 4340 I-beam rods, 2 high perf oil pumps, and all ARP fasteners.
Thinking I might convert my original engines to 496cid, aim for low to mid 5000rpms, purchase larger blowers, and build with torque in mind to try and pull higher pitched props.

Congrats on your boat, I remember reading where you rebuilt the bad 540 and were back on the water. I looked at the ads of yours when it was for sale many times and drooled over the low asking price due to motor issues.

Way to go!!!

See ya,
Kelly

I sold baja for 4 years on logo and 2 years on river back in the 90's we had one 38 that sounds very similar to yours ( green stripe by chance? ) best number was 74 mph, new going down river, that was the fastest one i was ever in.

I'llBaja ran mine the summer of 96 at the freshwater events up in great lakes and the other midlle and northern states. It probably ran @ LOTO poker run if they were having get togethers there then
She ended up for sale at a dealer on Lake Winnipesaki after the season where my seller scored it
You can't miss mine as it has huge Team Baja banners and other banners from outside vendors and riggers who assisted in the fitting out.
The speed is spot on as my surveyor hit 73 and change on the seatrial in NH
it really looks like I'm pretty much there on speed as some of these other boats are achieving equal speed with more power
We guessed mine at 600hp with the high boost.pullies and the intercoolers
I'm shocked Juan isn't acheiving more top end with his extra power
Hopefully my extension boxes will assist w/top end speed after repowering
See ya
Kelly

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28.../IMG_15311.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28.../IMG_15341.jpg


C5000
Is this the one you remember from back then?

See ya,
Kelly

LOL. I just clicked the link your provided.

Small world I guess.

Your boat should be more valuable than you think since it has a good amount of my knuckle and knee blood in the engine compartment. LOL.

It was a friends. I have a pic of it somewhere with me towing it.

He let it go for short money. I guess he had to do to other reasons.

Those are not the original drives. I think it went thru a few sets since he owned it. I was in it for atleast 2 drive blow ups.

Thanks for your sacrifices!!!
I hope the scabs left quickly and there was no scarring on your skin after healing, LOL!!!

You know the first thing I did was purchase a set of very low hour new style B1 sweptbacks immediately after taking delivery
I could tell she'd been rode hard by both the employees and the owner.
In spite of the age I think she still has awesome potential due to the history and the way she was rigged at the factory.
Most 38 Specials are mid to high 50mph boats stock as delivered.

Thanks for your reply,
Kelly

Actually, I have never sworn so much nor so loud in any engine compartment that on a quiet day you may still hear some of my echoes.

ROTFLMAO !!! on a dirt floor too

I've been there several times myself !!!

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly,

Are your stand off boxes raised or neutral? Just tring to understand some implied speed gains since I think you are running the same speeds at aprox 200-250hp less. Wondering if there is any good perfomance to be had from some shortie lowers or are boxes needed to see some gain.

sell it and get a Donzi 38 ZX. Same size boat with same amenities and will run 80+ with 575 a side.
that is what I did with my 38 special.

To be honest, I don't know.
I should call Dave at XT and see if he remembers from when they rigged it.
Judging by eyesight it looks like my props are topped near the surface with drives height at a medium number
In this pic at speed she looks to almost be surfacing the props way behind the swim platform.
I'd guess that with my speeds and power they're probably a little higher than a stock 38 Special
I also don't have a problem carrying the bow when I raise drive height and I do feel and see the difference in speed and ride coming up to max, I've never gone beyond the indicator as you mentioned.
I'm sincerely hoping that if I do make a move towards noticably more torque and HP that she'll respond with more top end and higher cruising speeds.
I'd love to push 80 plus or minus, I read a thread here back while boat searching about an early 90's (no step) Fountain 38SC that hit 84 with more power. However I'm not going to hold my breath on it happening because I believe my beam is either 9" or 12" wider and have more water contact friction. I just pray she doesn't get much louder than now. Except for blower whine it's shocking how quiet she runs at higher rpms. My exhaust was custom from the factory and the general thought from the members was it assisted performance and sound control. I think there are some pic's of them in the link a page or two back.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/a...hpq6daxcam.jpg


I'd love a 38 by Donzi or some other higher 38' hull speed boats by mfg's such as Hustler, Scarab etc.
The problem, as always, was purchase price. My cash budget wouldn't buy a lot of boat even during the recession. I was limited to early to mid 90's by more affordable boat Mfg's. I came down to a Fountain 38SC w/502's and mine. At very close purchase price I took the Baja due to it's factory Baja Marine history and the additional power and drive modification with extensions.
Plus, I just thought the Fountain 38Sport Cruiser wasn't as pretty overall. She had a weird looking deck above the salon
Congrats on your boat, I'm certain it's an awesome ride for sure.

See ya,
Kelly

for what the 38 special is worth and the cost of getting the extra mph you can get a 38 Donzi. There are some great deals on them if you search around.
http://www.texasbestrv.com/2002_DONZ..._187524011.veh

Wilks - I think we can all agree the 38ZX is a superior hull to the 38 Special and the link you provided is a beautiful example. Difference is, I have less than half of what they are asking for the ZX in my 38 Special with fresh power.
Kelly - Thanks for the feedback!

I'd say for certain that just about any go fast builder out there has a faster 38' hull than the 38Special.
And not many probably realize just how affordably we bought.
There were some great deals to be had 3 or 4 years ago when things were tanking on boat resales.
I'm forced to work with my keeper as I sometimes call her.
What I really love is the spaciousness aboard.
Congrats on your boat and your number is respectable. If I was you I wouldn't pony up the coin for boxes or even even a shorty. Simply enjoy what you have LOL!!!
Funny thing is I'm now contemplating a smaller boat 24-28' which will be easier to handle alone as a 2nd to put an engine in for more speed.
I'd like to find one on the cheap with no power.
If anybody knows of a unit in the near Texas or Gulf Coast area west of the panhandle of Florida is let me know.

See ya,
Kelly

I think ASH got his over 80 but that was behind the Kenworth when he was late to the lake one friday.

That whale of a boat ran suprising well for the power put in it.

Was a wave crusher, and yes, we got the nose under water once.

No, the last owner wasn't hard on the boat....just the drives. He liked the acceleration and thus mashing the sticks. That boat never got out of the water....I'm not sure it's possible to do that unless on the Great Lakes or the Ocean in huge seas.

lmao

And your absolutely correct, for a big old barge like this she throws up a respectable number.
When I say "Rode hard" I really don't mean abused but rather more like you were describing.
Flooring it!!! while out and about.
Trust me, I've always rode my machines hard, my girl included like your buddy did too

See ya,
Kelly