would like thoughts on this
 

I bought a scarab panther back in 2010 knowing I would pull the engines, transmissions and drives to have the stringers and transom replaced and convert to a bravo boat.
I took the boat to a reputable shop to have the glass work done and the imco extension boxes and drives mounted. I had 3 up extension boxes.
I paid close to $8000 for this. the standard bravo drives propshaft were to be 31/4 inches below the bottom of the hull.
after 4 long years I have finally got the boat to a point to sea trial it and when I mounted the stock bravo drives I noticed that they were almost level with the hull if not a touch higher. however the more time went on I started wondering if the boat was going to get on plane.
when the time came to sea trial it, the boat would not get on plane at all. I have since then put 1 inch spacers on the drives and had to purchase 5 blade props . I can get on plane now however there is an incredible amount of prop slip not to mention that the engines are mounted so high the flame arrestors are hanging 4 inches higher than the hatch I had to have custom wedge plates made for the exhaust and everything is very tight to work on.
at one point the I had to take the boat back to the shop to have something fixed while it was there someone (not me ) authorized to re paint the bottom of the hull. (not antifouling paint)
this is not something I would have done then because of the expense of what it was going to cost to finish the boat.
so I ended up paying for a more than half of it then and I was told to pay them when I could. which was awesome of them but again something I would not have done until I could do the whole boat.
I still owe them very little money on the painted bottom.
so back in the spring I wanted to take off the water pickups (that they installed that were 3 inches below the bottom of the boat ) and they were not the ones I wanted to use so I had to drill holes in the transom where for the pick ups and when I did it was like a water faucet was turned on. I was like WTF the boat has not touched water in 4 years and the transom is wet???!!
I started looking at it a little closer and they only replaced 6 inches from the bottom of the hull up and the old transom is still the last 6inches of the bottom of the transom.

I stopped by the shop after texting them the pictures and they were to busy he would call me after july 4th weekend. I have not heard from them since.

so to me the correct way to fix this is to remove the engines and boxes and lower everything down.and reglass the transom. however it has been 4 years I do owe them money.
so do I bite the bullet and pay someone else to fix it and post the name on the internet or do I call them again or has 4 years been to long and it is what it is?
I plan on pulling the engines so the only labor would be the glass work and hanging the drives.

I would have to know what their interpretation of stringer and transom replacement means to them?? After 4 years, are you sure the same personnel are still working there? You are in a tough spot..... What do you think the labor would be for the glass work and hanging the drives? There is a point that the battle may not be worth it!!

What do you have in writing from the beginning if the job??

so I want to be clear about something, this is a very reputable company and I would still have work done by them if it was not for this incident. the painter is one of the best I have ever seen and all the personnel is still there it is a family owned business and have been it the racing world forever.
they do great work and I honestly don't know what to think about what happened. they do have new hires from time to time and I honestly think this is what happened because if you would have seen, where and how low the thru hull water pick ups were mounted someone clearly did not understand what they were used for.
pulling the motors and drives I can do and I f I really wanted to and had the time I could do the glass work. I would think the only thing to lower the drives down would be to fill in a couple 10x10 holes and paint blend the transom. most the cost would be the labor of removing and installing the engines which would be on me.
however I paid $8000 for something that was paid in full and another $3000 for something I did not want and I still have a boat that will not get on plane with out 1 inch spacers

I would start with a face to face meeting with the owners, and explain the whole mess to them, if you have not already done so. Also as phragle said what's in writing. Did the stringers even get replaced if they only did a partial transom.

Like Phragle said what was put in writing?

was what put in writing? replacing the transom? I have or had a receipt saying transom was replaced I also was given an estimate for $5000 and ended up paying $8000. however mounting of the extension boxes was added on. I did not authorize redoing the bottom of the hull either. that was done and about 85% paid.
I am simply asking questions on what someone in this situation would do.

You need to have a discussion with whoever owns the shop that did the work on your boat. By your account the transom was not completly replaced, the drive height is incorrect and the bottom was painted without your authorization. Once you have that discussion ( and you realize you're screwed) find another shop discuss the repairs needed and write a VERY DETAILED work order, get a estimate for said work and visit the shop while the work is being done.

^^^^ This is what I was getting at, thanks Interceptor. I build custom motorcycles along with a custom parts line. Every nut and bolt, every mod, all labor is put on paper and customer signs. What your version of transom repair and the shops version may be/are 2 different things. When it is in writing and both sign, there is no misunderstandings. I also put deadlines on my work orders. Change orders and add-ons also get documented. Estimates in our state allow a 10% additional charge without customer approval. Any more than that, customer has to approve. A good business will call their customer on a penny over and discuss it, in my opinion.

I am in the car business and if do an estimate if it is not right when the vehicle is completed I have to adjust it before the customer even questions it. but that is how I am.. I do not have problem with the price I do not have that big of a problem with the transom being wet. because it has been 4 years since it was completed and I could have left it open the whole time. I understand that argument. I don't agree but I get it. however if it was 10 years ago and no one invented drive spacers it would have been completely unusable.
my biggest problem is I cannot even get the damn thing on plane with out buying two one inch spacers. and even then I have to work the throttles to do so. I have 17% prop slip with 5 blades and 25%with four blades. I paid a professional to do it because I wanted it right. if I wanted to mess with it after words I would have done it .

Missing on the x dimension that far should mean they do the transom for free. Just my opinion, we're not talking a 1/4" here

Agree with U Jd. Not sure how you dont have an issue with the transom being wet. If it was supposed to be replaced, and was done correctly, whether the boat was open or not during that 4 years, it wouldnt/shouldnt be sopping wet. As to what may or may not have been in writing, if a shop is being paid to do a transom and has one idea about how they are going to do it, if upon opening of said transom, moisture as described is encountered, a RESPONSIBLE shop would stop, and say "hey, we were planning on doing this, as we usually do, but, given the amount of moisture, we are going to have to do more", not just do what they do and leave wet to corrupt the new dry portion.

This isnt Lilly by chance?

Thats exactly what you need to tell the shop. You paid them so it would be right, and it's not even close.

make them buy you new boxs..

Talk to the shop and politely but firmly, express your discontent with EVERYTHING you feel is not up to scratch. Obviously they won't fix everything but it is a bargaining point. You may be able to negotiate some equitable middle ground and they have an opportunity to clear their reputation with you. Give them a chance to help, they may surprise you.

If they are just not interested in your complaints, it has been a long passage of time, post their name here and get over it.

Hopefully nobody at their shop is watching OSO!!

RR

I'd like to ask you something. First I agree that if you don't have the original agreement in writing then you have an up hill battle for sure. The 3 up boxes you gave them to use, is there enough room on your transom to lower them 3-4 inches? I'm not familiar with your hull, is it stepped? Is there room in your hull to lower the engines 3-4 inches? Did you visit the shop regularly to check up on progress and before making any more payments after the initial deposit? At some point before it got this far off course someone should have caught a few of the many mistakes. Any reputable shop should have known that this boat wasn't going to plane. If they moved the engines up too far, I would be concerned with COG. How is it possible for a so called reputable company to make this many mistakes without someone catching it? Their argument is going to be that you approved all the work performed and unless you have it in writing I think your screwed. BTW, why did you pay them for painting the bottom if you didn't approve them to do so? Especially after all the mistakes that where made that are going to cost you thousands to have corrected. New transom take out of engines and drives. New custom engine mounts and rehang the boxes and drives. One possible solution is to find some neutral boxes effectively lowering your drives 3 inches if you can live with the height of the engines and any COG issues. Good luck my friend, hopefully you can convince that shop to correct some of their mistakes?

I'm just wondering here. You said they were mounting the boxes an drives. Then you said you mounted the drives an the x was high? So the boat didn't have drives on it when you picked it up? Just asking. No dog in this fight.

i paid the company to set the drive height and mount the boxes. I then after the motors were installed the drives.
They used a dumby drive to set the drive height

Looks like it was definitely a dummy

Wonder if for some reason they mocked up a alpha? Isn't that about 3" shorter than a bravo? Either way sounds like that were in over their head from the get go. Good luck

OR 2" ?

they definitely were not over there heads. they can do really amazing paint work and rigging work sometimes then other times it is like they let a kid work on a boat that says he knows what he is doing and does not. the hull mounted water pick up tubes were below the hull 4". I was like WTF!!

I have mounted 1 inch spacers on a standard bravo and have managed to get 87mph out of it yesterday. however it is a bear to get on plane at times and other times it pops right on plane. I have not been able to pin point that one.

I would talk to the shop and exhaust all options there before blasting them on a forum. If they are truly a reputable shop as you mentioned, they will want to correct any issues and stand behind their work. Good luck.

Hard to bash a shop when he hasn't even named them in this thread, unless I missed it...

Agree with hashing it out with them, but if they aren't returning his calls, that gets a little difficult unless they are local and he can just show up...I'm guessing he is not....

nope I have not said there name yet and do not really want too. some osoer's know who it is and I have spoke to them through pm's .
I have not made a huge amount of effort yet. because I literally just got it running with "spacers" on standard drive's however I cannot put my engine hatch on because everything is so high and it is in the middle of the summer where they are busy and I don't want to loose anymore time . My main goal here was to get input on whether or not I had a leg to stand on or not. I will make it pretty public if I do not get any action from them based on the responses I have received.

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Why are those mounted so high? I am sure you explained, but seems too aggressive? A surfacing Bravo?

I agree. Those props have to be surfacing once on plane. You are going to be tossing prop blades running that high.

because the company that i paid $8500 to replace the transom, stringers and mount the boxes did not seem to understand the concept of a 3 up extension box

Oh yea it would not get on plane at that height i had to put a 1 inch spacer just to get on plane. Which i do but i shoot a pretty hefty rooster tail.

I never thought about the blade tossing aspect however I did think about breaking prop shafts. I do have a 2 inch spacers that I plan to try once all the parts get here for it. I still want to change the height of the engines
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I would think the motors mounted that high would also affect the rough water capabilities of the hull You want all that weight as low as possible.

After four years I think you have no recourse.

If the shop is not too far away I would take the boat by them and ask what was their thinking when they mounted the boxes and cut the hole in the transom. was there a reason they felt for doing so.

the transom being wet still I kind of agree with you however I have date documented pictures that the boat was just completed. mounting the extension boxes and drives to high that was there f up and paid them good money to mount them correctly and seal it properly

I'm sorry for your headache, as I know even having it done right, there are still things to iron out and get running right.

Good luck with it, might have to just go with a raised hatch.... Call GlassDave!

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The up 3" extension boxes is normally mounted at standard bravo drive height resulting in stock engine height but raising the X 3"s without redoing the transom? If that is the case, why would they have raised the motors? Also if they raised the motors on top of the 3" boxes...wouldn't this have raised the drive more than 3"s from stock? Anyhow, if i understand the idea wouldn't standard straight boxes lower your drive to a reasonable level? Maybe you could find someone that has straight boxes and wants the -3" ones for a trade.

I hope for your sake the shop is very understanding and feels responsible for a screw up. If not I dont think you have much recourse. Its just so crazy that a good shop with a good reputation and experience would mount a drive that high. Anyhow, waiting 4 years to complain about your drive height is gonna make a tough case to argue. Another thing is, I can't imagine spending that kind of money and having that major a job done without popping in the shop every week or two to check out progress. You might not have been able to tell the drive height thing, but you would have seen the partial transom thing. Had you caught that back then, you would not be in quite as much of a pickle.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

John