27 Squadron or Imperial?
 

http://batonrouge.craigslist.org/boa/1175696952.html

if it's got a crt or xex, it looks like a pretty good deal...

Sean - What is the XEX preface?

Didn't the imperials have the cheap dash unit on the starboard side with a cabin door in the center.

I put my $ on its real... just a hunch.
Anyone wanna shoot an email to this guy?

xex is the Squadron XII hull identifier.

The original 27 Squadrons were manufactured using this identifier, but I have heard of some that havve the crt prefix. Anything esle is a copy.

looks like a squadron to me

27 Cig / Squadron
 

Sean - My old 27 had the CRT prefix, but have seen the early boats with XEX prefix's. Barry

She's a real Squadron
Boat Hull # XEX270110681

Non compete went into effect mid 80's = Mine was a XEX, in 1987 = Got $17,500 in a trade from National, then they gave it back to me to offset the cost of a blown engine in my Cafe first time out - GREAT BOAT = http://www.ameriserv.net/boat/

Non-Compete
 

Sorry I have to challenge your 'mid-80's- non - compete'.

Non-Compete in the mid 80's had nothing to do with Squadron XXII – Directly from Cigarette website:

1980 Aronow opens Squadron XXII – only permitted to build12 boats per year.

1981 Halter offers Aronow the opportunity to buy back into Cigarette. Aronow accepts and merges Squadron XXII into Cigarette.

1982 Aronow sells Cigarette for the last time to Jerry Jacoby of Hawk Engines.

Hence the no - compete really didn't mean much as related to Squadron since they stopped building them. When Aronow rolled Squadron back into Cigarette, a number of the later 'Squadrons' were titled as Cigarettes. I still have a photocopy of the title of my 27 Cigarette.

I do agree with you that they are great boats.

Barry

According to the hull number, that boat is # 11, built in June 1981. I have # 12, built in July of 1981. I've heard/seen of up to # 18 from 1983 as being the newest, and the last one I know of.

can these handle rough water or just as good as a pantera 28/ sutphen30 how do they handle over 85 or 100.

yours had a cabin door could you sleep in there, did they chinewalk at high speeds, thanks.

The hull can handle more than the driver, and way more than most passengers - it's a fully bulk-headed race layup - except back then I 'm not sure they knew when to stop layin glass! Bottom is a full 1/2" of glass thick. The large outer strakes and the fact that it weighs much less than a pantera 28 or sutphen 30, means it's a rougher ride for sure - but you're not gonna hurt it. Mine has zero stress cracks, anywhere, after 28 years, with the last 6 being full on abuse...by me........

No experience with the hull above 80mph.......but now that I have a Konrad on it, that may change after this winter......

So where does the rumor that Imperial bought the molds and manufactured more in Indiana? Where was Hawk located?

I don't doubt for a second that Imerial may have ended up with the molds. I've never dug into the details on that. They could have just as well "splashed" the hull - meaning making thier own molds from an existing boat. This was apparently quite common in the 70's and 80's. Of course that only means that the very outside surface of the boat is the same as the the original, whether it be made using the orig molds, or splashing and making thier own. The important factor is how the fiberglass is laid up = what types and # of different weaves as well as type of resin used, how long it sat in mold, whether or not the hull and deck is glassed together, bulkheads, etc. I hear Cigarette's "lay ups" from the period were far different from any other production boats in those days, and were an important part of thier reputation - and based on how mine is built, I believe it. Where are the molds now?? Maybe Dana has them. That would mean they just went farther west after imperial?? I'm convinced Dana is using the same hull for sure, not the deck.....

Now, if someone would just take it and shrink those large strakes back down, and add a step or two, and use the same bulkheading with a modern vacuum bagged layup, and .............

Knowledge of the 1986 27 Imperial?
 

I purchased a 1986 27 Imperial seems to be the exact same boat as they cigarette Squadron 27 but the helm is on the starboard side. Was wondering if anybody has any more information regarding the 27 Imperials where they were manufactured if the mold did come from cigarette or if they made their own mold from a 27 Squadron? Any information would be helpful.

Did you buy the 27 Imperial in Michigan?

That would be my best guess. Looked like a nice boat. When are we going out for drinks...? same town and never crossed paths. WTF.

Yes but the boat was Manufactured in South Florida according to the hull ID

Rampage and Imperial
 

Rampage and Imperial were the only two companies commissioned to complete the 27ss.. they were all checked for build quality during construction to ensure cigarette quality. That should answer anyone's questions iif theseare worthy! I also have a squadron xii HIN# ASLPW006..88 I know how incredibly strong it is...

Rampage and Imperial
 

Rampage and Imperial were the only two companies commissioned to complete the 27ss.. they were all checked for build quality during construction to ensure cigarette quality. That should answer anyone's questions iif theseare worthy! I also have a squadron xii HIN# ASLPW006..88 I know how incredibly strong it is...

Hi,

While Cig might have checked for build quality of the hull (I am personally dubious), I know for sure they didn't check or supervise the rest of the builds, at least for sure the 3 or 4 of the Imperial knock-offs I have seen and inspected in person compared to the real thing, no comparison IMHO.

Cheers,

Dave

The Imperial 27 was completed in Jupiter Florida and they were all Aronow..... The quality is the same of any Cigarette or Magnum these hulls were Don at his best building Cigarettes and using other companies to title them. He had a strict Non-Compete and he was always making extra money on the side. The movie coming out on August 16th "SPEED KILLS" tells you all about it.

I don't know what the movie says...but, when I look at these photos I see I big difference, and these are just a from a quick google search to find some comparable pics...and just shows the "surface" of the low build quality IMHO.

Real...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9d1ad6d346.jpg

Fake...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...93c0ac769c.jpg

Real...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...17223df14a.jpg

Fake...
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...cf5c8fb75b.jpg

It's just that every Squadron copy I have looked at in person, I came away feeling like I had looked at an old Bayliner vs an old Cigarette. It;s hard to put into words, it was just my first hand impression of the build quality.

Have a good one,

Dave

Only difference I see is the helm on the other side.....

Can't comment on the build of the imperials, but i can certainly say that the squadron's are absolute beasts. I've crawled under the bow several times, and it is an unbelievably strong bulkhead layout. It can handle pretty much anything thrown at it, and flies true and straight. Handles on rails right up to 96, where it props out. Should mention ours has HIN XEX, although from what i understand it was completed by cigarette after don merged the two companies.

did you find out any more on this, do you still have yours?

I also have an ASLP Hin #008 do you still have yours would love to find out more.

AdamGolf, do you have any pics of your Squadron that you can post?

i will send some pics but I have to send 10 posts it says before I can post pics

I only just found out that my boat is not a cigarette thanks to this forum! Given what I now know I will start the job of removing the #1 and Cigarette decals! The boat is great.

Imperial 270
 

We have hull #2