Annual Costs for Top Gun?
 

New guy here (boatless) but i'm a lover of all things fast. Currently my toy is a Lamborghini Diablo but I've always liked the Cigarettes. I've tried searching on here and the General section for Ownership costs type threads but havent' found much. I know the cost of the boat and fuel would be the big ticket items on a monthly basis and I know that maintenance on engines will be dependent on usage and N/A vs. FI but i'm curious if anyone could provide some raw figures specifically for Top Guns or maybe the Cafe Races since that's pretty much all i'd be interested in. Would mainly be a cruising boat and hanging out on the river in Virginia.

Boat: $75-95k
Assuming about 10 hours of usage a month what do you guys imagine the annual costs for:

Fuel: ?
I know soem engines will be more efficient than others but a ballpark guess based on the hours above maybe.
Storage or docking: ?
Would not be able to keep it at home haha.
Insurance: ?
Being fairly young with sportscars, I'm used to decent insurance rates even though my record is clean but how does that transfer to boating insurance since I've never owned or insured a boat. Is jumping straight to a Top Gun the equivalent of getting a Ferrari for your first car?
Maintenance/Upkeep: ?
Oil changes and other routine maintenance.
PP Tax I can guess based on my car since i'm assuming the rate them in the same method.

I'm not looking to buy anytime soon but I'm just trying to get a solid grasp on what to expect. There are other factors (like a truck) I would need to see about as well before I did buy a boat but curiousity has me interested!! Thanks in advance for any feedback or if anyone knows of a good thread already on here that I may have missed.

OK, I'll take a stab at answering some of your questions. The first thing to know that the cost of the boat is minimal compared to insurance, storage, maintenance and fuel. It seems like you understand this already, so you are ahead of the game! Many will buy a boat and then not be able to enjoy it because of the costs associated. :)

Insurance: Depending on if you can get Allstate, State Farm or any of the other big companies or if you have to go with one of the "marine" insurance companies, it will run you between $750-$2500 per year. I'm with Allstate and I pay $850 per year... but I have two other boats insured with them as well, so that brings down the cost.

Fuel: I burn 60 gallons per hour at cruise in my boat. That is big cubic inch N/A engines that make 750HP or so. I imagine that 500's would burn a little bit less.

Storage: Another one that it depends on what you want. I slip with a lift will cost over $5,000 per year in the Annapolis area... but you may also be ble to find a place that will let you store the boat on a trailer and use the ramp whenever you go boating. That should be $100-$150 per month.

Maintenance: It depends how much (if any) you can do yourself. Obviously it's much more expensive if you pay someone to do tune-ups, oil changes and the basic stuff such as winterizing and un-winterizing.

Surprises: Face it, it's not a matter of if any boat will break...it's when! I build up a "boat fund" so when something breaks, I get that phucker fixed and am back on the water as quickly as possible. Sometimes it's a grand... sometimes it's 20 grand, you never know!!! :(:lolhit:

I hope that this helps.

Craig

Thanks Craig. I learned my lesson with Lambo about purchase price being only part of it. Had a surprised $20k+ repair bill soon after purchase. I'm an engineer so I could do the work, just not sure about space to do it but everything else you mentioned seems reasonable. I guess i'll just have to see if I can wrap my head around having so much money into something I'd probably use less than the Lambo haha. I do have USAA so maybe they would do the boat with my cars. How frequently do you have to change oil in the engines? Is there some per # of hours guideline or is it a seasonal thing?

I'm ex-military too, with USAA. They don't do boats, but they refer you to Progressive, and give you some kind of break.

You are definitely on the right track thought wise. If you can do all your own work, and have the ability to make or have machined the occiasional part that just eludes production replacement, you will be in fine shape. The only people I hear complaining about how much repairs cost are those who don't understand what's wrong or how to fix it.

My last boat was a single. After I got done rigging it in 2005, my only repair cost was $350 for a new oil cooler that froze and popped its head despite winterization. Otherwise, it ran trouble-free for five seasons. I changed the water pump impeller maybe twice, and the one I took out always looked new. That said, having a good setup in the first place, i.e. adequately sized fuel supply lines, cooling system, oil system, etc, are key to making the machinery live trouble-free.

If you can keep it on a trailer, and you don't owe any money on it, then you can basically make the expenses stop whenever you want/need to.

On the oil changes, if you are running N/A engines, you can get 40-50 hours probably. For blower motors, they say to do it every 20 or less even due to fuel dilution. Again, do it yourself, and you are looking at 12 quarts high quality oil @ $10 bucks + racing oil filter @ $20 = $150 per side.

I'll take a stab too.

Insurance - 1000-1500/yr assuming you have a nice clean record (Call Stacey at Wakezone)

Fuel - if you're using it 10 hours a month I'd guess you'll be at 40 hours or so a year. Assume 5000/yr in fuel.

Maintenance - Assume 500/yr (drive lube, engine oil, water pumps).

Storage/Docking - I'd guess 3000-5000/yr depending on where you are and what they offer.

Property Tax - Register it in Delaware and avoid them if you're worried about it.

USAA refers the boat insurance out, I got a quote from them and it was 3 times what I am paying at Wakezone.

Thanks very much! If you have no prior boat history (ownership or insurance) they just base your rate off your driving (auto) record or are they tied together anyways? I have a clean driving record but just curious. If I bought a boat I'd aim for finding something that doesn't need anything right off the bat but I guess i'd need to be prepared for anything haha.

I thought the same thing about my Viper at first...I use my boat way more often than my Viper actually. But I'm not DDing it.

I used to have a 97 GTS. Great cars!

Agree with all above.

Now put aside $2000 per year for the inevitable engine and drive rebuilds.
Consider adding $$$ for:
trailer maintenance
fuel / maintenance for the truck
(do you have a 1 Ton truck+ to move the boat and trailer or will you keep the boat in one spot)
registrations, safety gear, etc.
events, overnighting, day trips, etc.

The real number for me each year is $20,000 on top of my monthly financing cost.

It is a crazy sport when you really break it down. If you boat 100 hrs a year it costs $200/hr.

Crazy....but so worth it!..... and probably cheaper than a therapist would cost me.

A real easy/inaccurate calculation is 10% of purchase price per year is operating cost.....but obviously lots of ways to throw that off.

On the insurance, you mentioned "young", how young? It definitely will be a challenge/expensive if you plan to go over 75 mph or so, or have over 500 hp per side. When I bought mine several years ago I had trouble getting insured reasonably on a 500 hp single. I think the quotes I got on top guns were either "no thanks" or quite a bit more. Allstate was able to help me because I'm slow.

Your costs will be proportional to power. If you have Merc Racing HP 500's or EFI's and bravo's your costs will be minimal (the 10% total operating costs probably would work). You get some 800+ big cube blower motors and bravo's your costs can go way up (rebuilds, insurance, drive issues, etc).

Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks guys!

I'm 29. I wouldn't plan to be doing any high speed runs really or very rarely in any case. I'm more for the looks of the boat than having something insanely powerful but I wouldn't want a dog either. I guess if I get that serious about it, insurance is probably the first place I should check before committing to a boat.

also take into consideration your experience driving a boat. don't get caught in a bad ass boat with no knowledge how to handle it and the rules of the water, you wind up getting bit rather quickly that way. there is nothing wrong with a "starter" boat for a season or 2. when i got back into it, i went from a donzi 25 to a formula 311 to My Tiger in a 3 year period. by doing that and learning the ropes you really enjoy it when you move up and you respect the boat and the water so much more.

I expected that response and have wondered about that myself. I have been on a few boats but do not have much driving experience though I am a very fast learner. I imagine a boat is kind of like a motorcycle in that people buy them and drive them a tiny bit and think they are superstars and end up doing something stupid soon after. If i did a starter boat I'd worry about wasting money in the transitions up to a larger boat but it is definitely something to think about. I've already started a boat safety course and learning all the rules and signs but you make a very valid point.

I do not have a truck at the moment but I would have to do the math and logistics on that. I do have a few friends with trucks and/or boats that would probably move it for me but I'd have to consider how often I'd need to move it and storage location. A lot to consider still haha

Being a fast learner does help, but it doesn't help when the lessons come at you thousands of dollars at a time because you bought too big of a boat for your current abilities. If you are going to make a newbie mistake, you'll be a hell of a lot happier when it happens to your 25' boat compared to your Top Gun. It makes a lot of sense to buy something smaller to start learning.

Just making a guess based on your Lambo ownership...you probably like the Top Gun because it is iconic and known for being one of the top boats. You probably interpret it as the best. Do yourself a favor and spend a lot of time in the classifieds of this site looking every day at the different makes. Chances are, you'll find something you may like even more which will suit your needs better. I know I'd be kicking myself if I bought the first boat I thought was awesome.

top guns are awsome boats. ive rigged a few of them and i cant say enough good about them. how much you looking to spend i know where a spotless twin step with fresh cobra 750's and brand new xr's the boat definately has the wow factor when you look at it. one of my fav paint schemes!! let me know i can email you a pic

+1. 10% of purchase price is good general rule for a boat in good condition. This will allow for basic maintenance and an upgrade or two ever year. You need to budget 15% of purchase price atleast once every 4 years for a bad year that will need major repairs. If its in average condition it could cost 50%+ or more to refurbish cost. If its below average condition will cost 100%+ of purchase price to refurbish. These are good general rules for boats that see salt water and normal use. You can lower these cost if you do the work yourself. New boats will see annual cost of 4% of purchase price for first couple of years then will double to 8%.

If you keep your boat at a marina in stafford, you will be paying personal property tax. They also check Inland Game and Fisheries registrations to track you down, you will have to provide proof of where the boat is stored despite registration.

Definitely not a new boat. Would probably keep at Lake Anna or Fairview. But it will be a while before I would actually purchase. I'm not dead set on a Top Gun but those are the ones that appeal to me the most but I would look at all my options

Fairview Beach Yacht Club is very narrow - a 38ft boat almost spans the channel and can be hard to launch - Lake Anna probably isnt the best place to run a 38 ft boat. You may want to start out with a 20 or 25 ft boat.

Depends on the power.

Realistically, $10K yr is a good round number assuming nothing blows up and you can do your own work. :party-smiley-004:

I have friends with 35 and 42' fountains that go out there but I know it's not the ideal place to open up the sea legs :) For now I'll just keep the learning going!

A step bottom 100 MPH boat as a first boat may be a handful, may be fairly expensive to insure as a first owner, and the XR's would probably need rebuilds at a higher rate than a boat w/a lesser power package. This would all increase the annual cost of ownership. However, if money spent to own/operate the boat isn't an issue, and you plan to be professionally taught to drive by say Tres Martin, this would probably be a very nice option. Good luck.

Costs

10-15% of the cost of boat per year

100k boat

10-15k per year

That's a quick way to budget

Yes, definitely get some experience operating, launching, maintaining, etc a smaller boat to start. I grew up driving yachts, tenders, and then ultimately Navy ships. Maybe I know too much about what can go wrong Get familiar with the rules of the road, bouy conventions, basic navigation, etc. get some practice. You'll find out that there are times when 20 mph on the water is white knuckle due to traffic or navigational constraints.

Learn to read shorelines to envision what the bottom depth is going to be like. Learn the subtleties of wave shape changes, water color changes, and other indicators of trouble. Too many people think there isn't anything to piloting a boat safely. Remember, it's not just driving, any 4-year old can steer. You become captain of the vessel, and responsible for all in it, those who come near it, and even your own wake.

My point is definitely not to discourage, because you seem like a highly capable individual, but everyone has to learn, and a boat that will barely stay on plane at 30 mph might not be the best environment. Sort if like driving your diablo for a first car. If you like cigarettes, get yourself a nice 28 or something, and learn with that. I think the market has to be near bottom now, so if you picked something up, do
a little work to it, you wouldn't lose much in the long run. Sell it in a year or two. A lot of this sport is developing your own infrastructure, I.e. truck, tools, and even cranes/hoists for pulling engines.

On the truck subject, even a 3500 might be a little shy for pulling a fully fueled TG unless it's a gooseneck. Mine is only a 35, but still heavy, and I pull with a 4500 medium duty. I have a 20,000 lb receiver setup, and you have to even go searching for an extra heavy duty hitch ball. I was using a 17,000 lb ball until I found a sweet black anodized gooseneck ball with a 30,000 lb rating. Don't get caught short on the towing department, because if something happens, you'll be crucified. By having this stuff, you've already announced you have the funds. Lots of people would love nothing better than to get it from you.

Very good points. I would probably find a used F450...owned an 05 F350 a few years back. I will admit my first foray through the boat safety course the main thing that hasn't sunk in is the buoy markers and signs.

just pull the trigger

Not bad but it will be a while before I purchase. Still a lot more research I need to do! Looks good in the pics though!

If you're spending that kind of cash on a first time boat, then ABSOLUTELY spend the $2500 for a Tres Martin course. It could save your life as well as your passengers.

This guy purchased a 38 top gun from Legend Marine, drove it 2 times and on the 3rd rolled it because he didn't know how to drive a stepped bottom boat.

http://www.screamandfly.com/archive/.../t-185577.html

Additionally spend time practicing maneuvering the boat, especially in the wind. This will pay dividends later when docking in crowded and often stressful situations.

As far as DIY maintenance, this site is an AWESOME reference. I've learned so much it's amazing what members on this site can assist on when you have a problem.

Good Luck

Good point. Having the school cred may help you big time on getting insurance as well, and more than pay for itself in a couple of years.

Yeah I did check out the courses the other day after I saw in a separate thread. Around $2500 for a course seems like it would be a good idea for sure if I get a boat!

Actually, (in my opinion) it would be much more beneficial to take a basic boating safety course first. You can do one online (BoatUS) or take one from the USCG Auxiliary or US Power Squadron. The online one can be done in an afternoon, or no more than a day or two and it's free. After you do that and get a boat (and a little bit of experience) would be the time to take the Tres Martin course! :)

I definitely agree. Already been taking an online safety course on boatingbasics.

Dave at MDG performance here in MD has a Bullet and a cafe coming up for sale that would make great starter boats and they are both priced to where you wouldnt take a huge hit in a year or so for moving up :)