What conversation? Cigarettes still building boats. Literally enough said.;)

Mine feels like a school bus in flat water, put it offshore in some good water (what they were designed for) and its like getting off that bus and getting behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
A small craft advisory and my kids don`t wanna go back in because they think its a roller coaster ride .

Technology has come a long way since the 70's and 80's hull designs. The Flat Deck, Straight Bottom Guns, werent exactly state of the art bottom designs. They were heavy resin buckets. Porpoising, listing, ride attitude, etc have all been improved. Not just a Cig thing. My 1990 38 Fountain is a turd compared to a 2008 38 Fountain. If I put my gas guzzler blower engines in a 2008 38 Fountain, I'd be going probably 25mph faster than I am now. Nostalgia is one of the biggest blindfolds in life, next to a vagina. Twin step gets my vote if you can swing it.

i think you nailed it preety good!!!!!!!!

Twin step. Hands down.

OK, so now I am interested. Who has experience with a full cabin T/S. What about full cabin T/S with Bravo/525 vs. big drives/power? Was the cabin removed to balance with a lighter bravo setup, more efficient? How would a big drive, full cabin 38 T/S run??? Like Hot for Teacher with a cabin for us Nordics up here....

Are we splitting hairs? At that point do we start looking at Black Thunders...:party-smiley-004:

I think at some point you have to look at other brands and totally take the brand loyalty out of the equation when checking out what other companies have to offer. With Cigs TS design being 14 years old now, there are other companies out there building boats that will run with or outrun a Cig and still have very nice cabin:

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o55188-en.html

http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o57798-en.html

Totally agree with you there. I dream of an Outerlimits. Maybe if I liked to live in one, and not eat or drink, and ran around naked, then, maybe then, I could have one. Big coin.

I think you and I are in the same boat (pun intended) by the time we get done with our boats ($$$) we could have been in a much newer twin step something.

Yep, or Nortech, Outerlimits, T/S, Tiger, etc. It got quite out of hand, and I'm not even close to in the water. this has been nothing short of a nightmare.

Next time = "buy boat with keys that when you turn makes noises".

I'll never learn......

Frickstyle know your pain, SOON to be stepping :)

Not even a question.. Twin Step!

Def twin step if speed is what your after and have no budget but the cig straight bottoms are awesome boats for 60+ thousand dollars less money. Think of how much chit you could do to go faster with 60 grand or how much fuel you could buy. But as already stated if you have bottomless pockets t/s with big motors and your hauling the mail

You won't find a full cabin (90's style) in a TS. I've sworn for years I've seen one but I'm starting to believe I'm wrong.

Hot for teacher runs 110ish TS #6 900ish HP. You'll only find a handful of TS #6 guns. Again, the CG wasn't designed to handle the big sixes hanging off the back and trannies. I've been told by those who know and I respect that toms boat is somewhat of an anomaly as it runs very well.

Twin step hands down... But I am a little bias.

Just because its a Newer Boat or T/S don't think you will get out on Not dropping a LOT of $$$$ into it!!!


Lets see- Blow a Motor Rebuild Both
Paint- Interior- Trailer
XR Drives- TOOO many to count-
SCXs- O YEA!!!!!
Boost HP Again!!!

Would I do it differently????Probably not but- 39- w 700 NXTs would be sweet-

Next time--39 GTS- 7 Yr warranty's LOL





[ATTACH=CONFIG]525994[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]525995[/ATTACH]

Bill knows that game plan all too well.

I have owned Fountain, ridden and driven many others including Outerlimits, Formula, Sunsation, Powerquest, Baja, Hustler, ChrisCraft, and Flat bottom Cigs. They all have their strengths but nothing I've ever been in compares to the ride of the T/S Top gun I currently own. And IMO there is nothing more solid than the ride and feeling of this boat. Big water or calm lake water it is just very stable and ALWAYS flies straight and flat. There are faster hulls for sure but some of those just feel like skipping rocks to me, and the older flat bottoms just feel like your dragging and anchor the whole time. Someone previously mentioned how they feel like you hit that brakes when you get out of throttles. That pretty much nails it on the head. We have had many women and inexperienced boaters that will come off of other boats scared to death and then tell me how much safer they feel in this boat. I know that all T/S boats you have to be more cautious in the turns but I think the fear factor is a bit overrated and overstated by Flat bottom fans. My boat is only a mid-80's boat but I can tell you there is never a time where we feel unsafe in this boat. Couldn't be happier with the ride. Two of my favorites that I have never ridden would be a big Apache and a 39 Cig to compare the ride someday. I'm not sure what you are calling a full cabin but I have an extended Cover girl cabin (finished my self) and our boat sleeps 4 at the lake pretty much every weekend. Love the long benches for taller guest.

I probably can't add much that hasn't been said. I've owned both boats. 93 and 97 strait bottoms and a 01 twin step. The strait hull boats requires more power and you have to fiddle with the trim and tabs under 50mph in flat water. The TS was a set it and forget it basically once it was on plane. The only thing I never got used to on the step boat is the back end always feeling it was on marbles. Noticed it the most when you had to take cruiser wakes at weird angles. The strait hull boats never felt that way. The step boat had a little softer ride, I thought it was because it ran a little flatter, had a little more lift to the hull and spanned the waves naturally. With the strait hull boat it wants the bow up but in rough water you bring it down with tabs to span the slop and it wants to slam a little because of the tabs pushing the nose down. I own a strait hull now but would consider a TS boat again, in fact if I buy another cig it would be a 700 39. All the boats were solid, never a stress crack. The strait hull boats do have a useable cabin.

Tank - you aren't thinking about the TS Rider that is owned by one if the members on here with the user name b....... (Something)

it will definitely be a t/s the cabin does not need to be full just a place to sleep on the weekends

Yea, maybe. I don't know. It's been too many years and boats. Lol

If you're getting 74mph with 500efi's that impressive. Buddy of mine has 540ci almost 700hp motors put in his flat bottom Cig and barely makes that. His is a 94 or 95 so maybe your 2000 hull is more advanced

How do u delete a post? Sorry guys. Don't get on here much

I think this was discussed before, do boxes help with the porpoising? Wasn't there a solution that involved modifying the bottom with a wedge near the transom? Does this help the old ones run flatter? What about weight in the nose (will that create bow steer)?

Thats light on fuel and in perfect conditions. 73.8 to be exact. Flat water and it struggles to hit 71mph. Like I said safety for my family, the ride are my priority so I love my boat. Also overnight often so full cabin is nice.

2000's were vacuum bagged and lighter.

Weight in the bow will make the porpoise worse! Know first hand in a tiger and gun both straight bottom.

I don't know about the boxes, I think they may help because you're pushing the drive further into the water.

Bottom line, flat water - just drop a little tab. You'll lose a couple mph but who cares? I'd drop a little tab and push the drives out and find the sweet spot. There's a balance between the two that a flat bottom cig will free up with the drives out and take out the porpoise with a little tab. You can feel it like a light bulb going on when you find it.

The prop rake has a lot to do with the porpoise. Mine stops the hop at 60, 3400 rpm, boat nose drops, pull the tabs up, not needed. New mercury 5 blade, 15 degree rake, 17.75 diameter

Yes, but you have the drives a lot of us can only dream of. Sweet rig, good to know about the rake.

Yea, I remember that one (things come out AWESOME, by the way). I always swore there was a TS gun built with full cabin but maybe not. I know cig did some funky stuff right around 99/00 - single steps, cover girl straight bottoms, F2 TS's, etc.

I had a light layup 2000 straight bottom gun that would just about hit 78 with mph 500 EFI's.

Seems to be running smooth at 75mph. 1998 flatbottom, 950 chiefs, 6s. restructured for rough water

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...14970743850227

little speed run in Primal Instinct. Boat sat perfect in the water

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...00837878309253

Primal instinct just put a beatin on me the other night.