What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

I'm guessing it's a carbon fiber lay up. Is the name sake "Carbon 70" special for only Cafe Racers? I've seen two Cafe's with this designation. I didn't realize they made Carbon fiber Cafes. Thought it was only guns w/Carbon fiber. What's the deal? And is the Carbon fiber boats lighter, stronger or both? How much do Carbon fiber boats weigh compared to normal lay up? Ok, enough Q's for now.

Tank

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Yes, its designates carbon fiber lay-up. The "Carbon 70" means that the boat would run 70 mph with a pair of 502 Mags and Bravo's. My carbon fiber '91 Cafe' that is now owned by board member "CAFE" ran 84 mph in fresh water with warm SC600's and Bravo's.

A carbon fiber Cafe is about 400 pounds lighter than a normal FG Cafe' ( according to Craig Barrie ), and about 600 pounds lighter in a TG. Carbon fiber is better at taking sudden, large isolated blows or impacts whereas Kevlar is not as strong as carbon fiber but better at taking repeated, more rapid blows / impacts.

- Jamie

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Well, that pretty much sums it up for me then. Thanks for the response. I guess I could just call Craig about all of this but I hate to bug him w/all these q's. You guys do just as good of a job! :D :drink:

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

I asked Craig, and here's what he said,


"It was 70 MPH. They were a little lighter, all were supercharged. The Guns were easier to run as they all went about 72mph. Those Cafe were stuborn to get 70mph." Craig

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

What, are you sitting next to Craig? Tell him to get back to work! :D :D

Hmmm, I wonder what SC motor's they were putting in them in the early 90's?
well thanks for the reply. I guess they were fairly rare since you don't see many around.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Ok,

I can't hold back any longer!!!!

I don't want to get in a huff with anyone BUT, Cigarette said my carbon 70 Top Gun weighed 9200 lbs with 1/2 tank of fuel. "Cash Bar", on the board, has a 96 fiberglass Top Gun and the owner said it weighed 11,000 lbs dry. 11,000 - 9,200=1,800.

You can go up to the side of my boat and push it in with your thumb, and it moves back and forth. Try that on a fiberglass Gun. :rolleyes:. Most of the early 90s Top Guns were backed by Hawk blower motors.

If you want a 70+ MPH boat with very mild power you need to go Carbon Fiber. We have 6-7 MPH over the Fiberglass Top Guns with same power. We have owned a lot of Cigarettes over the years (8 to be exact) this BY FAR is the best.

Here are some facts comparing Carbon Fiber, Kevlar, and Fiberglass:

Below are some property values for the three materials. Keep in mind these values are at optimum resin ratios.

Modulus of elasticity(stiffness)
Glass: 2,600,000psi
Kevlar: 3,100,000psi
Carbon: 8,700,000psi

You can see how much stiffer Carbin is than the other two.

Here are ultimate strengths for bi-directional woven fabrics:

Glass: 25,000psi
Kevlar: 51,900psi
Carbon: 87,900psi

Now, here's how they compare in terms of weight:
Glass: 0.072 lb/in^3
Kevlar: 0.061 lb/in^3
Carbon: 0.054 lb/in^3

Here are the strength to weight ratios:
Glass: 333,333
Kevlar: 850,819
Carbon: 1,627,777

You can see that Kevlar is about 2.5 times as strong per pound of glass and Carbon is about 5 times as strong per pound.

I hope this answers some of your questions. :)

LS JR.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Anyone have any idea how much my boat weighs? 97 TG kevlar w/ covergirl cabin. Runs a solid 80+ mph w/ 600's & bravos.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

LS, you should be working at the factory! :D

So basically Carbon fiber is stronger AND lighter than anything else.


A glass Cafe weighs right around 9500 dry right? so a carbon should be around 9,000? and you get 7 more mph out of 4-500 pounds lighter? That's a large difference.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Yes, it is basically all around better.

I think GLH said his '94 Cafe weighed 9800 lbs dry. IMO, I think there is a lot more difference in weight in a Fiberglass Gun compared to a Carbon Fiber Gun, more than 5-600 lbs. You can feel the difference in the way the two ride.

My $.02

LS JR.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

My bad, I stand corrected. Hey, its only 2 hundred horsepower difference, what do you mean ?? :drool: :drink:

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Hawk 525SC's where/is most common.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

I believe all of them have fiberglass hulls ... even mine. They may have laid the hull up lighter and reinforced some areas with carbonfiber ... like capping the stringers. On the carbonfiber raceboats, the complete decks were laid up with carbonfiber along with capping the stringers. Of the F2 boats, mine was the only one to have the helms built from carbonfiber. My boat spec'd out at 7800lb but it's probably closed to 8000, about a 1000-1200 pounds lighter than a newer TG and about 1800-2000 pounds lighter than an earlier (pre 2000) TG

Craig, please check me if I'm wrong.

Gary

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Cigarette published a weight of 9,800 pounds for a normal FG Gun in there literature in the early to late 90's. If Cigarette also told you that your Carbon Fiber Gun weighted 9,200 pounds, I will believe THAT difference over what an owner 'tells' you his boat weights. No 90's Gun weights 11,000 pounds, sorry to say. :)

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

1 ) Cigarette published a weight of 9,400 pounds for a normal FG Cafe'.

2) Yes.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

As a side note, I will assume that Cigarette's weights listed are dry weight. Since a gallon of gas weights about 7 pounds, you have an additional 1,400 pounds added right there in a Cafe' when the tanks are full.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a Twin Step Top Gun weighs 9,300 lbs. NO WAY a straight bottom weighs only 500 lbs more.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Yes, 9,300 pounds is what they publish, and 9,800 pounds is what they published for the 90's Guns. I dont know why the 500 pounds would be unbelieveable. The higher speeds that the TS Guns provide is from the efficient bottom design, not the weight difference. Outerlimits also proves that theory.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

There's more information here:

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=64213

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Good thread. Thanks.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

#9400 on my Cafe from the factory number as mentioned by Jamie B.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

My mistake, sorry guys.

LS JR.

PS-The bottom line is:
Carbon Fiber boats are lighter and stronger.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

If the power was the same.... Hawk 525Sc, then what was the price difference between a fiberglass, kevlar and carbon fiber Top Gun?

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

I have some old price sheets somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them up/out. I seem to remember that Kevlar was a $10,000 option.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

...just a point of reference, when I was at the Konrad facility in April, they weighed my '89 Top Gun with 3 people and 1/2 tanks.....12,300 lbs!!!

She's a heavy 'ol girl but I still love her :D

Kurt

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

So basically your boat weighs 11,000 dry. Compared to the newer (Glass) cigs that isn't that much heavier.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

12,300 minus
875 fuel weight from half tanks ( assuming 125 gallons of fuel )
750 3 average males ( 250 average )
_______

10,675 pounds wet with all onboard gear

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

Biggus #250.... that's about right at the end of the day! :D:D:D

Christ! he's hardly taller than Nort.

Re: What's a "Carbon 70"??
 

all i know is my carbon fiber cafe is as handsome as me.... i am, Mr. Wonderful you know..... hey lucky forget about working for pops, go down and work for tres, or phil.. better yet, how bout neil.... your ok in my book bobby........ dave