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Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by Dirck W Gomez
This is the boat-
what would be a realistic price? I'm not busting on the boat, but ads can sometimes be misleading! Like I said, it depends on what you plan on doing with the boat. The money really adds up quickly when you start replacing stuff on a boat, so be aware of what you are getting yourself into. There is an OSO member (cig1988) that has completely redone a Bullet and has had a hard time selling it for 53K. I can't for the life of me understand why that boat hasn't sold yet! The amount of money that could be dropped into re-doing a Bullet can get up there...but the fact remains that there hasn't been one sold for more than 70K in the last 3-4 years ....and that boat was in brand new condition with new paint, new engines, new drives. new trailer as well as new interior and gauges. I paid 65K for mine. Just my opinion...but I wouldn't pay more than 35-40K for that boat. Craig |
Re: help buying a bullet
I agree. I'm not slamming the boat but I'd be looking at getting it for $35,000, maybe a touch more.
I do the math backwards on those kinds of boats. By that I mean that I price out an interior, cosmetic repairs, the cost of adding any equipment I might deem necessary (trailer, air conditioning, a GPS, stuff like that), possible driveline work, and look at the total cost. If the bottom line ends up being the same or more than other similar boats I figure I have to get the boat for less money or cross it off my list. I also look at the actual cash the owner will get after paying the sales commission. I'm assuming the broker gets 10% and on an offer of $45,000 the owner will get $40,500. That's why so many brokerage boats seem high-priced. |
Re: help buying a bullet
I agree with the guys on this one but, book value is book value and the bullet still has a higher book value than 40,000 and it comes with a trailer. It looks like a little TLC could go a long way.
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Re: help buying a bullet
There can be quite a difference between book value and appraised value, in both directions. The book value is a great place to start, both with the bank and with the seller/broker. But the survey will reflect the value and condition of the boat in the opinion of the surveyor. That's what the buyer should be interested in, mainly to be sure he's done all he can do to assure himself, the bank and the insurance underwriter that it's a good risk.
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Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by Crazyhorse
There can be quite a difference between book value and appraised value, in both directions. The book value is a great place to start, both with the bank and with the seller/broker. But the survey will reflect the value and condition of the boat in the opinion of the surveyor. That's what the buyer should be interested in, mainly to be sure he's done all he can do to assure himself, the bank and the insurance underwriter that it's a good risk.
Especially with a 15 year old boat, you really can't tell what it is worth. A good buddy of mine told me today "An old boat is worth what you can get somebody to pay for it". My Bullet surveyed out with a replacement cost of 280K :rolleyes: :eek: and a fair market value of 101K. I'd be willing to sell it for alot less than that!!! :drink: :drink: I'm anxious to see what this Bullet in question will be valued at in the survey. |
Re: help buying a bullet
Id offer 32500 that baot is salty ..Look at the hardware .
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Re: help buying a bullet
There again, I don't get too concerned with salt-water boats. My last 3 boats have come from salt water and other than having some dry rot in the cockpit upholstery (from the moronic owners [not you, DJD] that hosed them down rather than wiping them down) they were everything I expected when I bought each of them.
The boat I had before the Cigarette was purchased in Hamilton, Ontario but was originally purchased and used in Newport Beach, CA. The owner got transferred to Hamilton and after a few years the boat was listed for sale. He and I reached an agreement and both signed a purchase agreement showing a sale price of $12,500 US. The survey came back at $9,900 US and that's the amount I ended up paying. Of course, he had the option of keeping the boat. I spent two years refitting that boat before it went in the water. I ran the boat for two more years and sold it for $26,500 after I bought the Cigarette. The survey showed a value of $27,600, if I remember right. I'll post a pic of it as soon as I scan one. |
Re: help buying a bullet
By the way, Waterfoul saw that boat during the refit when it was just a hull and deck. He said after it was done that at the time he wouldn't have thought it would ever float again.
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Re: help buying a bullet
Im not knocking salt water boats but if they arnt rinsed and looked after the hardware can realy go to chit .. Im spoiled as I boat on a fresh lake and have always shopped for fresh water boats ..Occassionaly we see some salt boats make their way to the local marinas ..and it is amazing how much more damage/corrosion can occur ..
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Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by craig223
It depends on many factors. Are you happy with it in it's current condition or are you going to upgrade it? It appeared in some of the other photos (that aren't in the ad) that the interior needs replacing. Do you like the black dash and current gauges or do you want to make it white and install new gauges? What condition is the trailer in? What condition are the engines and outdrives in?
I'm not busting on the boat, but ads can sometimes be misleading! Like I said, it depends on what you plan on doing with the boat. The money really adds up quickly when you start replacing stuff on a boat, so be aware of what you are getting yourself into. There is an OSO member (cig1988) that has completely redone a Bullet and has had a hard time selling it for 53K. I can't for the life of me understand why that boat hasn't sold yet! The amount of money that could be dropped into re-doing a Bullet can get up there...but the fact remains that there hasn't been one sold for more than 70K in the last 3-4 years ....and that boat was in brand new condition with new paint, new engines, new drives. new trailer as well as new interior and gauges. I paid 65K for mine. Just my opinion...but I wouldn't pay more than 35-40K for that boat. Craig me neither. on a side note. since Dirck is paying the surveyor can he be influeinced to be extremely critical thus bringing in a lower value for the boat? most surveys ive paid for come in very near what the agreed upon sale price is. coincidence or is the surveyor really giving the value all partys involved want to see? |
Re: help buying a bullet
I think the surveyor is being paid to be critical, no matter who he's working for. The exception to this rule might be if the surveyor is on staff at a marina and is doing surveys for the marina inventory.
There are a lot of very good surveyors here in west Michigan, but there is one individual that I will not allow to survey my boat. When I have a boat for sale I tell the prospective buyer that he can pick anyone except for this one particular surveyor. It's my opinion that most bonafide boat shoppers are fairly well prepared when they find a boat they're really interested in. If a boat is advertised as a "10" and it's a "4" (we all know this happens a lot) they buyer is going to walk away without getting anywhere near the point of needing a survey. Most sellers are also aware of the actual value of their boat, but the advertised price may be a reflection of how much is owed rather than the value of the boat. Remember when Bayliner was offering "no money down, affordable monthly payments"? Those buyers were financially upside down as soon as they took delivery. In the case of my own boat, there was one bank that refused to accept the surveyor's valuation of the boat, and insisted on using their own "book value". There was $20,000 difference between the two, and it was definitely NOT in my favor. |
Re: help buying a bullet
I spoke to Dirck just the other night and told him what to look for. I restored 2 Bullets in the last several years & have a respectable amount of knowledge on them. By looking at the engine hatch cover on "fit for a king" I would not doubt the wood is not far from compost. Not to bash Cig but when they manufactured the structure of the upholstry there was room for improvement. For example, the bench seat base has contact on the floor. Easy solution is to cut the base 1/2" and support with " L" brakets or whatever. Over time water sponges into the wood and the rest is history. When fiberglass is layed over plywood without being beveled it creates an air pocket and voids for water to penatrate with no where to go. The engine hatch upholstry frame is a major compost issue. Cig simply brushed on a coat or 2 of resin. Why not incorporate fiberglass top and bottom ? My uphostry shop hates me for that !
As far as not selling the boat, I threw a higher number and really did not advertise aggressively. Honestly after all the work into the '89 I wanted to enjoy the boat for a year or two. (hope the wife does'nt read this) If I threw a wild paint scheme, updated the dash, pumped more HP into the engines it may have sold. I restored this boat as if it was left 188th street back in 1989. But this spring to boat needs to go and someone will be getting a great boat. As with all surveyors, they will find flaws even in a new boat. Which is good. I gave Dirck a number on my boat and offered any help to answer questions he may have regardless he buys my boat or not. |
Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by cig1988
As far as not selling the boat, I threw a higher number and really did not advertise aggressively. Honestly after all the work into the '89 I wanted to enjoy the boat for a year or two. (hope the wife does'nt read this) If I threw a wild paint scheme, updated the dash, pumped more HP into the engines it may have sold. I restored this boat as if it was left 188th street back in 1989. But this spring to boat needs to go and someone will be getting a great boat.
I really don't think that your asking too much for your boat. It's evident that you put an azzload of time and money into restoring that boat. Someone will be getting one hell of a nice boat!!! |
Re: help buying a bullet
Hey Craig,
Thanks for the reply. Sick thing about it is I enjoyed the entire resto process. Just gotta love taking a worn out piece and making it new again. It's very rewarding to look at before and after pictures. I would like to keep the boat but need to sacrifice the $$$ for some real estate down south. Stan |
Re: help buying a bullet
Hey Stan,
How are you doning. Your boat looks awsome. Where is your ad listed? I might know somebody who is interested. |
Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by gripit
Hey Stan,
How are you doning. Your boat looks awsome. Where is your ad listed? I might know somebody who is interested. Great, a ton of snow on the way this weekend. Thanks, the boat is not listed right now. I made a mistake last year of listing way too early. I was going to advertise in boat trader etc around March. All I can do is send some pics with my ph#. Feel free to have your buddie email me [email protected] How's your Bullet doing? |
Re: help buying a bullet
Stan,
I really enjoyed the time talking with you a couple nights ago on Bullets, great info. I am still enjoying the pictures of your fine vessel-you have done a beautiful job- you are a true craftsman and a class-act. In fact I have recieved many friendly and helpful personal e-mails educating me on this fine speedboat line- thanks again!!! Guys, Is there any way to verify the hin to validate advertised model year of bullet? Is the Marine Lien .com site a realiable source? FYI, the survey is scheduled to be completed tomorrow and boy I feel like a little kid in anticipation on the results-kinda like the first time :-). |
Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by Dirck W Gomez
Guys,
Is there any way to verify the hin to validate advertised model year of bullet? Is the Marine Lien .com site a realiable source? FYI, the survey is scheduled to be completed tomorrow and boy I feel like a little kid in anticipation on the results-kinda like the first time :-). Go to the source. Call to CRT in FL 305-931-4564 and ask for Bud if he's got the records he'll let you know. He did not have the file on my 85 Mistress :( I know the feeling on the survey deal. It's tough waiting and hearing what you want to hear :eek: :) Hope you score A+ on your report card ... let us know, which I'm sure you will. Good luck, Chris |
Re: help buying a bullet
Wyatt, Look what I found. There was a thread a while back to "decipher hull in#"
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Re: help buying a bullet-Survey says:
Survey is in:
10 + pages of detail with + 20 pics- data from stem to stern in general condition of: structural integrity; machinery; protective coatings and housekeeping noted all as satisfactory. Hull,deck, cockpit cabin free of any dry rot, no noticed blistering, crazing. he identified all the nicks and gouges that I also saw but also noted surface corrosion on fuel tanks tops near fillers, some poorly repaired fiberglass at aft section of keel and bow eye hook area which I also noted during my visual/sea trial while up on fork lift. All exposed areas were inspected stringers that were visible appeared solid no noticable non conformities. He did note around drain plug close to the notch there was some moisture indicated on his JR Overseas moisture meter but no visual problems at this time. He led me to believe that this was a weak area of most vessels and may not be serious as visually and hammering/ tapping it appeared sound. Core sample only way to validate complete integrity. Accessories were inspected included Halon and hand extinguishers needed recharging, no carbon mon detector, no smoke detect and no GFI electrical outlet near cabin sink, needed double clamps at fuel tank. Trailer needed work as rusted brake line, dented fender, corroded leaf springs - work needed before trip to California. Overall I am not surprised, but the moisture at the drain hole was my main worry-THOUGHTS? I spoke with the adjuster at length and unless a core sample is taken- it is hard to determine severity and may offer years of service. He only provided facts which I simplified and summarized above with an assessment of 54.6K including all above impediments. Guide me ol' wise ones...will this be a bigger project than I think it is for the $ invested. Thanks |
Re: help buying a bullet
I see tons of boat manufacturers that spend a lot of time sealing the stringers and transoms, then drill a hole for a drain plug and don't seal it. :confused:
IMO, that would not be a major factor in not buying it for me. I might pull the drain plug fitting out and do a bit more snooping, but thats as far as I would go. If you do buy it, pull the fitting, let it dry for couple / three weeks. I usually point a small fan at the opening and leave it running. Afterwards, I resin seal the hole, then 5200 a new drain plug fitting in place. |
Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by Scott B
I see tons of boat manufacturers that spend a lot of time sealing the stringers and transoms, then drill a hole for a drain plug and don't seal it. :confused:
IMO, that would not be a major factor in not buying it for me. I might pull the drain plug fitting out and do a bit more snooping, but thats as far as I would go. If you do buy it, pull the fitting, let it dry for couple / three weeks. I usually point a small fan at the opening and leave it running. Afterwards, I resin seal the hole, then 5200 a new drain plug fitting in place. |
Re: help buying a bullet
I still wouldn't pay more than 40K for it! Stan's boat looks better and better!!
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Re: help buying a bullet
Great advise-thanks.
In the theater that I am in, Stans boat is the benchmark and yes what a beauty. I know I am pissing off the owner with all the concerns but it sure helps when i present my 'final answer'. Hopefully the price will be right so I too can enjoy some sweat equity and show off the final project to the judges-love the hunt. Hope the weather warms up in north east for ya all-wishing for sun and a early spring. We are in the fog belt and can't see across the street been weeks now-tule fog bores me. |
Re: help buying a bullet
Understand that you're under no obligation to give the owner or broker any part of your survey. It's a common courtesy to provide them with a copy of the deficiencies but I would stay away from showing them the full survey.
As long as you want the boat and the appraised value is equal to or more than the negotiated purchase price you should be in good shape. |
Re: help buying a bullet
Originally Posted by HiPerf2000
I've seen people pull the whole fitting, and set up a halogen lamp about a foot away to dry the wet area. takes a few weeks. re-seal and you're good to go.
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Re: help buying a bullet
Well, is the jury still out or did you step to the cashier's window and become a Cigarette owner? Take the plunge, bub.
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Re: help buying a bullet
Yeah, your keepin me is suspense as well
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Re: help buying a bullet
Jury is still deliberating...work gets in the way of total focus in on this deal.
I am satisfied with the Bullet in general, but the trailer needs work before the 2200 mile trip to nor cal and trying to work that into the deal-last few pennies are tough. Hoping to sell the magnum trailer to step up to a deal working on a aluminum rig-got the fingers crossed. I think my wife is starting to get sick of all the details I am trying to work out...ONe way or another this weekend the fat lady sings. Thanks for the support guys-stay tuned. |
Re: help buying a bullet
THE JURY IS IN, I am taking the plunge w/ both feet and wallet.
If there are no kinks(so far it has been real smooth), I may be a owner when my money flows to Victor(owner) next week. At this time I would like to extend my appreciation to all that has given a candid response on not only this vessel, but the entire process...it has been very educational. One question I have is to Crazyhorse... you made a comment on an earlier post that "Waterfoul... stated after it was done that at the time he wouldn't have thought it would ever float again". I was wondering why he would state that...is there something that I am or the surveyor is missing? If it is serious, I would like to know, good or bad. Surveyor gave the boat a clean bill of health with some minor dings and scrapes. By-the-way, the surveyor process was awesome, professional and very informative. I just received all the survey hard copies, with pics, 2 cds and a 34 page narrative on factual findings-way cool data-even on the trailer-GREAT SUGGESTION GUYS...he is a SAMS member-class act, friendly, and very helpfull. Stan; you have an awesome 31, I am sorry we could not hook up sooner...I hope my impatience didn't cost me too much-your boat will be the benchmark for my new project. The process is not over yet, still on pins and needles, GCBC in TX has been so far very professional and informative, I will give a final assessment when I see my boat/trailer and splash it with local water. Again, many thanks to you all so far. Any changes, I will keep you all posted. Now, off to buy some boat wax, and wait in the driveway for the transporter. That is after I do ALL the honeydue projects around the house which was part of the deal. Stay tuned |
Re: help buying a bullet
Congrats Dirck...Welcome to the Brotherhood !!
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Re: help buying a bullet
Dirck - Crazyhorse was talking about his old Sea Ray, not your boat.
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Re: help buying a bullet
Dirck, BGIII is correct. I was referring to my 31 SeaRay, which at the time of Waterfoul's visit was without any wiring, plumbing, interior, engines/transmissions/shafts/rudders, interoir, cockpit,,,,,,,you name it and it was probably in my basement or on a truck from West Marine.
I wasn't making any reference to any boat but my own. I'm sorry if I made it sound otherwise. As a side note, BGIII knows the present owners of my old SeaRay and has been on the boat quite a bit. It still floats. |
Re: help buying a bullet
welcome to the family... stecz
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Re: help buying a bullet
Wyatt, Congrats and welcome to the family. I wish you the best of luck with your addition for many years to come. I am happy to help in any way possible and here @ OSO there is no such thing as a stupid question. I'm glad you took the advice of the other members and mine as well. It is a huge purchase and sure you'll be happy with it.
There is a wealth of knowledge here and many people will have answers. Craig Barrie, Scott Smith are the original Cigarette people which have helped me personelly when I was stumped on something. There are no hard feelings about not purchasing my boat at all. You have my phone# and I as well with others are here to help you in any way possible. One question I have for you is do we call you Dirck or Wyatt ? |
Re: help buying a bullet
Congrats DWG! Must be nice to be able to buy a boat in January and even think about splashing it ... never mind actually doing it! :rolleyes: :) Have fun ... the left coast sure needs some more Hi-Perf boats!! LOL :D :p
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Re: help buying a bullet
Its been a little rainy out here, but I am greatfull that my local lake doesn't freeze up. As soon as I get the Bullet, a little rain, fog or chill won't stop me from launching it, just have to watch out for downed tree logs.
Stan, I go by Wyatt, as that is my first name. DJ are my middle initials and has been easier for all to spell. You guys are THE BEST, a nice family feeling and the support has been very helpful and valuable- Thanks for the warm welcome |
Re: help buying a bullet
Congratulations!!! :woohoo:
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Re: help buying a bullet
well how faet can you make a 1990 31 bullet go with twin 750s 28 pitch props 5800rpms a guy I know claims low 90s
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Re: help buying a bullet
That's a great looking Bullet!
I've been looking at it on here every few days and re-counting my pennies - it just never seemed to add up for me... Congratulations! :D Now I need to keep shopping...(which the wife says is a good thing... :rolleyes: ) |
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