Welcome Big Al B
 

Welcome to Classic offshore Al. Little history on Al, he raced 38` Scarab open class in Calif. as well as raced other classes of boats. He and his wife are very dear friends of mine and are avid boaters today, with a racing sail boat named whisper and 47` Fountain named Scream, they will enjoy very much Classic offshore, next they will join HORBA, so Charlie give them a big welcome, great people with some good stories I`m sure. Al raced against Herbst, Edelbrock, Honcho etc. all 38` Scarabs from Calif. and all ex famous race boats, Maybe Al will tell us about the different boats and their origin.Your friend 7XCHAMP

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Welcome,
What years did Al race in the Pacific?

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

I would be interested in hearing what it was like running against Nordskog up and down the beaches. He seemed like a pretty serious competitor.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

I don't know if I'm doing this right but am willing to give it a go. I am not in Richie's league but we sure have had a great time.
It all started in Lake Arrowhead in southern California with ski racing and drags. Vic Edelbrock Jr, Jerry Herbst, Bob Brain and later Pete Peters of Phoenix and myself formed the "Fun Team" because we raced for fun--always the pits to visit for a cold one.
In the 1960's thru the 1990's we continued to ski race, particularly the Catalina Race from Long Beach to Avalon and back. I drove an 18 Spectra, 24 spectra, 32 Spectra, 22 Hallett, 27 Hallett, and a 21 Schiada.
During this period we had moved to Colorado and began racing in APBA Region 16 OPC class then Super Stocks. Went to the Nationals at Parker Blue Water in about 1967-69 with my Sanger flatbottom with a 427 Unser Ford and got blown away by the Howard Brown boats with Keith Black 426 hemis.
Then decided to go offshore in POPRA and had a special 21 Schiada built, rigged by Jerry Gilbreath of GMT with engines by Curt Hooker of Edelbrock--750 HP dynoed, normally aspirated. Herbst found out what we were doing and showed up at the first race, in San Francisco, with a black 38 Scarab bought from Kiekhaefer for back debts--a former "drug boat". Within a year, Vic and Pete were also racing 38 Scarabs.
We had first rate equipment.
Jerry was seriously hurt at the 86 Worlds in Key West, and still has paralysis on his left side. The guys in the Cougar Cat behind him were killed when they hit the same standing wave. Vic had sold his boat and gone Vintage Car racing--better for his business. Pete bought a new 41 Apache and Joe Lancor the Popeyes 38 Scarab(Al Copeland). I throttled for Lancor, and the we got the first 46 Aranow. We destroyed the boat in the first race in San Francisco; the kevlar bottom peeled off in sheets as we raced. We finished 3rd but refused to go to Pier 39 as we were leaking badly and I had to have drives and plates all the way up on one side and down on the other to keep us from cork screwing. We called Aranow and he essentially said "tough". At the trophy presentation Bob Nordskog heard of the problem and told us to deliver the boat to his shop. We did so and he called Aranow and told him to build us a new hull correctly or he was going to feature our boat in Power Boat magazine. We did some analysis and discovered that the boat would only hold together if built of carbon fibre. So Joe got Kary Gahrety of America's Cup fame to go and build the new hull. Bobby Moore rigged and tested the new hull and called to say that he got it over 105 mph but could not keep it from cork screwing. Hence it became a pleasure/fishing boat and is still around Ft. Lauderdale.
You asked about Bob Nordskog. He was the "Grand Poba", and POPRA would not have existed with out him. You had to have a love/hate relationship with him. He went out of his way to help with Aranow as he helped other racers. But he also changed rules after races to win and did not abide by rules if it meant not winning. He was a tough competitor. He both drove and foot throttled his boats, though I don't think he could have without the Teague brothers on each side of him. I believe he enjoyed having his own fiefdom on the west coast.
I miss Bob--most of the time.

That is too much for any of you--sorry to be so windy. Would be happy to fill in any spaces.

Now we will see if this makes it into the right spot.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Thanks for the history and a great first post !!


Cougarman

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Breitanbach:
While most of your story is interesting, how did you order a 46 from Don.
He passed away before the Aronow 45' was ever finished.

What 46' are you talking about - he did not build V hulls from 82 until his passing. That part of your story does not make sense.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Sorry PJRIZ but someone has given you the wrong information. The 46, not 45, was his new race boat and we got the first one from the mold. You can get pictures of us racing the San Francisco race from POPRA as we are going through the Potato Patch just outside the Golden Gate. I know the boat is in Florida because the rigging shop we used for the 48 Fountain had just worked on her. You can get the name of the shop from Richie. If you still don't believe, call Bobby Moore. Past that, I'm sorry I can't help you.

The hull was pure white and seated four people. We had two big blocks that were built by the over-the-hill gang. Three retirees: Lou Carillo, Kieth Black and a man from Gentry Turbos whose name I can't recall. They took the project for fun and turned out two engines that dynoed over 1150 hp and idled under 1000 rpm. Joe was handling this part as Carillo was a good friend of his. Lou rode with us in the back seat in San Francisco so he would be another person to contact.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Breitanbach;
45' or 46' is not really relevant - the point is simple;
When Don passed, the mold for his new 45' or 46' had not yet been finished, as the men at USA were still working on the plug -
so please explain, if you can, how Don built you the first one out of the mold. That was not possible.
As that was not possible, then it is not possible that one of your crew called him to complain about a Kevlar hull delaminating during the running of the San Fran race you speak of and his answer of " tough" is a pure fairy tale.
Maybe your people want to make up a good a story and are using Don's name instead of the name G. Garbrect. Garbrect ran Aronow boats and he is probably responsible for the faulty built race hull you refer to.
Other than those facts and some other gaps in the tale, your story sort of makes some sense.
That phone call from Bob to Don is pure fiction and crazy talk.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Was the guy from Gentry's shop Vern GIlbert ?

If so he is still carring on Genty's work, and works closely with Pat Wiesmann on a lot of projects.

Cougarman

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

PJRIZ

Every event I have written about is factually correct. Unfortunately, you have substituted the word "Don" for "Aranow" which gives a different scenario. I have used the word Aranow like Outer Limits or Cigarette to define the company, not the individual. I may have misled you by incorrectly using the word "he" instead of "they" in a few spots. If that is the case, I apologize. However the facts are absolutely correct, including the call from Bob Nordskog to Aranow, the call to Aranow complaining about the kevlar delamination and their answer of "tough", and the fact that we were told that it was the first race boat out of the new mold.
This is not a "fairy tale" nor does it have "gaps". And we didn't have "my people", we did it ourselves.
I hope this clears up your concerns and have a Happy New Year.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Hi Breitanbach:
Yes, thankyou: that does clear it up - It is very believable that those running Aronow, not Don, built you the first race boat out of the mold when finally finished - and that it was not built strong enough for racing by those guys makes sense.
Thanks for clearing it up.
All the best,
PJ

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Cougarman:

I honestly don't remember the name from Gentry Turbos. But I will never forget the engines they built--smooth as silk and great torque.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Great Appetizer...when are we going to get served the first main dish, My appetite did get turned on !?
And A Big Welcome to Al B. Great Stories from the West Coast scene.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Welcome Al,

Great stuff and I am thirsty for more info as well being an offshore fan in the early days out here on the west coast.

GC

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Hey that's a great story!

I'm a west coast guy and I love hearing the Pacific racing stories.

I've recently discovered something pretty interesting about a few big name west coast guys (Teauge, Pfaff and maybe Nordskog)... As I understand it, they were all LA City Firemen at one time or another.

Thanks for sharing and keep it coming!

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

More stories please!

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

More about the west coast, and particularly the important role that Bob Nordskog played in getting the offshore races going.

Some history is again pertinent because the boat racing on the west coast developed much differently then what we read about in the east and south east. We were car crazy and into drag racing in the late 40's and early 50's. And also water skiing. So it was natural that we started drag racing boats and water ski racing. This was in the days of the 19 ft Racing Chris Craft and the Higgins. The only offshore race that I remember in those days was the water ski race to Avalon, Catalina and return. All other racing was on bays, lakes and rivers.

Then came the first fast flat bottoms. I remember Lou Brummett and his first wooden flat bottom with a world war 2 tank engine. With the availability of fibre glass, the flat bottom racing grew. In the drags, the Hondo boat 007 was nearly unbeatable, and the SK, SS, GN and K circle race classes were growing. Many of the race boats were also
multi purpose in that they would drag race, circle race and ski race. Of course the goal of a ski racing boat is to put out a flat table-like wake at high speed(ie no holes to trip up your skier), which means lots of horse power and your plates down so the nose of the boat plows. So these were not the lightest boats built. The geographic area where this was occurring was primarily california, arizona and nevada. Also, marathon racing of these boats was becoming more popular--remember the Salton Sea 500 and the Parker Enduro. The more famous boat builders of the day included Hondo, Sanger, Beismeyer, Raycon Craft and more. This growth continued through the 1970's.

The popular boat racing magazine during this period was Power Boat, published by Bob Nordskog in southern california. He also was an active racer. He became interested in offshore racing during this latter period, but there wasn't any circuit in offshore california. I believe it was about 1980 when the growth of Pacific Offshore Powerboat Racing Association (POPRA) became a priority for Bob. Bob had one of the only deep V offshore race boats so to get things started he advertised "run what you brung". And the early races had some interesting entries--many out of the GN and water ski racing classes, including us. We could use the same boat, with some fairly simple mechanical and seating changes, for water ski circle racing, water ski marathon racing, marathon racing and now offshore racing.

Power Boat magazine covered all of our offshore races with good writeups and this helped build the interest in this type of racing. The used boat advertising started including more offshore boats so within about 5 years there were many more true offshore race boats showing up to race.

So I believe Bob Nordskog should be given credit for starting and nurturing offshore racing in California. It would be very interesting to get the Teague brothers comments about the period because they prepared all of Bob's boats and raced with him.

One part of west coast offshore racing during the period was the fact that our last race of the year, plus our speed trials, were at Lake Mead, Nevada, outside of Las Vegas. Because of the wind chop and wakes, it was always the roughest race for the smaller boats, but it did clean out the salt. You would be on a plane on top of the chop at over 90 mph and have a hay stack appear and hit it before you could turn. One year we were high point in our class entering the race and had another boat in our class disintegrate in front of us just after the start. We stopped and picked up the driver and crew and took them over to the ambulance boat and returned to the finish line to watch the end of the race. The officials came over and asked if we wanted to restart after our class finished the first lap of the two lap race. We said sure and were lucky enough to be able to win and keep our position. In our class alone, two boats were sunk and lost, two boats dropped out with large holes in their side, and nearly every boat had major damage. After just one lap, our boat was split along the transom and had other major damage.

I'm probably boring you so I will sign off and enjoy our snow here in Vail.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Absolutely not.
Very interresting account of the development of the Offshore scene on the West Coast. It is fascinating to compare the differences between the two sides of the US.
A question though, weren't there a race in Long Beach in the 60's already?

Awaiting the next instalment.
Phil.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Deauville Trophy:

I believe you are right. I remember hearing about offshore races being held. But not regular or frequently. There was no circuit with a regular schedule like the east and south east. Our race boats of that time did not fit any of their offshore classes so we were not involved. In our classes we could race nearly every weekend somewhere in the area.

Nordskog's effort to attract the local racers by offering "run what you brung" I believe was the major impetus to get racers thinking about offshore racing. It is important to note that the "unusual" boats that began to race offshore were truly race boats with first class equipment, but they had been designed and built for a different venue.

We had a lot of fun racing offshore during this period.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

What was the main differences then?
Engines, drives or what ?

Hmmm, this is truly interesting!

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

booring????? Noooo come back...my friend has a Centurion 18 lightweight with a 460 Tunnel ram Berkeley-jet jetboat and I did cut today up all the rotten wood in my 21 Sleekcraft Exec .jr which had a 454+ a Jacuzzi 12 YJ. I´m thinking of putting a smallblock Twin Turbo in it....
One has to have a little boat too to play with...

Greetings from Finland...we don´t have snow here yet And I´m as high as Anchorage...:mad:

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Mikeyfin:

The primary differences were as follows. For the hull, the bottoms were flat to a shallow V with cavitation plates across the transom, not trim tabs. Lengths tended to be in the 17 to 24 foot range. Prop shafts tended to have a main strut forward of the rudder, with whip struts just aft of the thru hull for those that had very low angle shafts. Engines were at the transom with a drive shaft going forward to a V-drive. Engines tended to be blown or turboed big blocks, except for the APBA class boats like SK and SS.

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Ok so regular Drag/Skiboats mainly that you run with..I was thinking more on the Big offshore boats, you mentioned Bob Nordskog being the first with a true offshore boat in the early 80´s how about the others and was there any differences with the Big Vee´s to the east coast ?

Re: Welcome Big Al B
 

Mikeyfin:

In this era, nearly all of the big offshore boats were designed and built in the south east and east. We in the west either bought used or new boats from them. Thunder Alley was the origin of many of our boats: Cigarettes, Apaches, Aranows, Scarabs, etc. These boats would generally run in the 90's--much slower than the current designs.

The smaller west coast boats that initially went offshore with Nordskog as I described were generally faster. But with their shallow V, lower freeboard, exposed engines and dry stacks, they were not nearly as sea worthy. But they were sure fun.