Transom and Stringer work - 233
 

Currently working on my winter project, 1980 formula 233. I knew the transom was wet and have already pulled that apart. When I pulled the motor I noticed that 1 of the 4 lag bolts holding the motor mounts down had wet wood on it and was loose in the Hole.

I was planning on cutting the top off the stringers and replacing that wood as well. I tested drilled a couple spots along the stringer and the wood doesn't seem rotted and wet like I expected. Even right next to the holes for the lag bolts it seemed ok. I would have to imagine there is some wet wood in there either way if the lag bolt holes were that rotted. I plan on going to a custom mount that bolts into the side of the stringer instead of the top for better mounting

My questions are:
1. Is my best bet to still cut the tops off the stringer and start over? Are there any other safe alternatives?
2. If I cut the stringers, are there any critical measurements I should take first? I got the general height, but it is tough to be accurate because the glass on the bottom isn't perfectly smooth.
3. On the back fiberglass wall there is a thing "film" of wood left on it, what is the best way to remove this? See picture.

The transom cut out, where I currently am at in the project:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps5e2901f8.jpg

Pictures of the wet transom just for fun:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psce796c0d.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps73b03354.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps8bb516a5.jpg

I have a 79 Formula. I had to re do the transom also. In mine I found that the 4x4 engine mounts were also wet. You might want to check them.

79 - did you just cut the top off the engine mounts and dig out the bad wood then replace with new wood? I've read a lot about this so far, but do you have any good links that you used?

Hey what's up dean, looks like you have your hands full this winter. I don't know anything about glass work ,otherwise I'd love to help you out. Keep up the good work. Jason

The motor mounts are just 4x4s with a bevel cut on bottom. I cut the whole thing out, made new ones and glassed them in. Just put a straight edge across the boat and measure down to the mounts. Then when you rebuild make sure the height is the same. Also measure center to center as well as how far from the transom.They were pretty easy to swap out.

Thanks 79, I dug into it and it made a lot more sense, wasn't as bad as I expected.

Jason, good to hear from you man. Hopfully I can get this behind me and see you back out on the water in the spring.

On number three there i have had many 80's Formulas apart and found a few of them had severe build issus on the transoms with very poor lamination and large voids where the wood should have been bonded to the outer skin. After grinding back the remnants of wood and smoothing as best i could the surface was still very un evan and would have been very difficult to wet bed the new transom in with mat. In these extreme cases I set the new transom in with CoreBond, works great and is pretty user friendly. Where are you at in MI?

Thanks for the info Dave. I got a scrapper and was able to slowly peel back the thin layer that was bonded to the fiberglass. I only got about half of it done at this point, but it was coming off. It appears to have bonded to the wood well before, is this an indication that it is not uneven? I'm assuming this transom has already been redone at one point, because it is repowered to a 454/bravo, but who knows what has been done in the last 30 years.

I'm not familiar with CoreBond, I will have to do some research into it. What does it consist of? Once I get it cleaned up a little more, I think I will have a better idea of what it looks like. I'm located just south of Grand Rapids, MI...

Do I need to cut this lip back flush or can I leave it about a half an inch up and use it as the outline for the transom? I assume the filler would cover this anyways?

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps8a9ffa58.jpg

Thanks.

nice work started here!!!

So, where do you think you will do some of your boating?

I moved to NE Indiana from Allegan, camp quite often in Hopkins. going to drag the 272LS up some this summer.

Brian

Most of the time we boat anywhere from Muskegon to Holland. I drop in at Grand Haven majority of the time. It would be good to see you up here. I watched your build thread in the Formula section. I'll have some questions for you too...:whistle:

Yes that is a good indicator that it will be fairly straight. If the transom was fully bonded in from new it should be the shape of the wood once it is removed. I am in Toledo and i thought if you were closer i could save you a few bucks on materials. I retail glass products on toledo craigslist under "fiberglass supplies". I buy in pretty high volume and like to keep my resin fresh so i sell off to the public to keep my price down and keep resin fresh.

Corebond is used to set any core materials like foam or balsa sheets in the build process but can be used to set a transom in the case of very un even surfaces. It works very well but i still prefer csm (fiberglass mat) bedding when doing a transom replacement

i would cut that lip back flush and tab up over the top although you could do it either way. I generally do what ever leaves the cleanest most uniform result. Whatever allows me to get a good consistent bond and a good fit with the new transom. A lot of techniques while doing glasswork aren't from any set rules but rather just thinking ahead a bit. Sometimes ya gotta get creative and figure out what works best for a given project.

Check out my thread in the restoration/upgrades forum. I aint a professional and this is my first boat but I think I'm doing a pretty clean job with her. I got ALOT of help watching Friscoboater's videos on youtube. He re did a sea ray bowrider that was completely rotted and his videos do a great job of showing how things are done.

Thanks for trying to help out with materials Dave. I wish I was closer. I have been looking for some materials locally, and found a couple options but haven't purchased any yet.

I will check out your thread. I have watched Friscoboater's videos and they have given me a good heads up for what is to come. Thanks for the tip.

Right now, I am laying out all my materials and cutting the wood. I have a little more cleanup of the old fiberglass to do yet. Hopefully in the next week or two I will be fiberglassing.

What are you guys using to bond the two pieces of transom wood together and what should it be coated with before installing it in the boat? I have seen/got a handful of opinions, so thought I would ask.

Thanks for all the help so far...
Dean

Hi Dean, couldnt send this reply through the IM thingy, to many characters. 2000 limit and this was 3044 lol

Hi Dean, no problem i will address them as above and i also have an illustration that will be in my book in the future that i will put up in your thread.

1. yes, cut and grind everything out. I fit both pieces individually then bond them together with a layer of ounce and a half mat and poly or vinylester resin and let cure completly then re fit one more time. I prefer vinylester but if you are looking to keep it budget conscious poly is perfectly file. Vinyl gives you a leg up on bond quality and has physicals almost that of epoxy for just a few bucks more.

2. see above

3. I just bond both pieces in out of boat on the shop floor and put them in with no holes pre cut. You really need to map those out at the end to be perfect.

4. basically yea, pre wet the inside of the transom and put in a layer of 1.5 oz mat. Wet the back of the new transom and give it a few minutes to soak up some resin (not to long though the clock is ticking on the resin) Install the transom and clamp it down tight. For the clamping process you will just have to be creative and use every hole in the back of the boat with drywall screws and large fender washers. Ease the pressure on progressively around the screws to allow resin to squish out a bit. In areas where there are no holes i have a few of those adjustable cargo bars from harbor freight to apply pressure from the bulkhead inside. These things
http://www.harborfreight.com/ratchet...bar-96811.html

or these but i think the first have more pressure. I have an older screw version i could not find a link to

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-1-...bar-66172.html

5. yep use a mixture of cabosil and resin about the consistancy of peanut butter.

6. See illustration in your thread. cap the transom with only 1708 and tabbing, no mat necessary.

Not a bother at all, as you get closer to lay up and if you need more in depth feel free to call any times fine (check PM for phone number).



heres the illustration from my upcoming epic novel soon to be on the New York Times best seller list lol :D

Thanks a lot Dave, that really helps me understand it better. I apprciate all the advice and pictures are great. I'm sure that is going to be a great book.

Do I cut the outdrive/exhaust holes out when I'm completely done fiberglassing then coat the inside of the holes to protect the wood?

Here is where I'm at right now. I think I need to cut the Port side (wrote "star" on the wrong side of the wood, i was upside down:whistle:) and the bottom a little more to get it away from the bottom of the hull. I have most of the glass shaved back around the sides and the bottom, but still need to do the top.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps808aba1e.jpg

yes cut them after everything is all laminated. Test fit the drive before you coat everything sometimes you need to do a little fine tuning. Looks good, i wright the wrong side bout every other time i do one lol.

Ok thanks Dave, I was asking about the holes because I was planning on using the exhaust holes and outdrive hole to feed my all thread through to clamp the two pieces together. I will probably trace the cut out area and just drill a hole for the clamp bolts then finish the cut outs when it is glassed in. Or is it acceptable to use wood screws to pull the two pieces together?

One of my last concers I see right now is how to tie in the main stringers since I'm leaving the existing ones. I was thinking I would cap off the end of the stringer to isolate it, then put the transom in and glass back around the stringer. My concer is the uncoated part of the wood that would be behind the stringer, or should I not worry about it because it should be completely enclosed.

Thanks for the help.

It has been slow going but finally got the transom and motor mounts all glassed in. I just need to finish up the floor.

I test fitted the motor today and got it aligned. Two questions I have as I have been going along.

What is the best way to cut / map out the hole for the steering arm? Tips and tricks for cutting it out?

Are you guys drilling the holes for the gimbal housing studs through the transom bigger than needed and then filling them or just adding sealant to the correct size hole? Looks like most people are using 4200.

Thanks.

I cut my key hole steering arm notches with a 2 inch angle grinder and used it as a mill to keep grinding it out. Of course I forgot to do it and had to take my transom assembly back out haha I drilled my gimble housing bolts with a 9/16th bit and then mixed up some resin and coated the holes with a small brush to get the wood sealed up.

Good idea to coat the inside of the holes and use 4200 as a sealer. Sounds like its coming right along. Any pics?

Thanks guys. I'm just trying to cover my bases and seal this thing in 10x over to keep water out. Getting very paranoid about any possible places water can find its way in. Can't wait until I have to screw the swim platform on...

Anyways here are some pictures. Got most of the floor in last night, so I just have some small spots and some touch up fiber glassing to do. Then paint and get the motor back in...this part of the project might actually end...:angry-smiley-038:

Transom clamped to the wall and new motor mounts.
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps900b448a.jpg

Transom glassed in:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psd05b90a0.jpg

Testing alignment with new motor mounts before painting:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps776535aa.jpg

Floor stringers glassed in and foam back in its place:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps601e7522.jpg

Bilge floor in place, bad lighting so I will have to get some new pics when it dries out. Key hole is cut but is covered to keep the heat in!:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps9fe30de2.jpg

Thought I would end this thread with a thanks to everyone who helped me out throughout the rebuilding process. I don't know if I would do it again but it would prob take half the time. I learned a lot that is for sure and got to meet some new people.

Here is the "finished" product as far as the fiberglassing goes, I hope. I'll let you know in a cople months if it floats...


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...psdfea806e.jpg

Thanks again. Dean.

Nice job Dean. See you on the lake this summer

Looks good Dean, you should stop itching in a week or so!!

Very nice

I'm currently doing the same process to my Scarab. My question is how do you fit new transom to the back of boat if doesn't touch the hull at the bottom? How do you hold it in place suspended?

Look back on page 2 where glassdave answered a bunch of questions and see #4. Also look at the top picture above. Basically you put resin and mat on the backwall first and then clamp your new wood transom while wet to the back wall. Once that fiberglass hardens, it will be "glued" to the back wall and susspended off the bottom.

I used a wedge on the bottom to hold it in place while I tightened the clams and got it in place. For the clams I used threaded rods and 2x4s, (drill through the long side of the 2x4 so it is on it's side).

Let me know with any questions along the way. Glassdave is also a great help. Goodluck.

Dean

Thanks Dean. I guess I was just over thinking this, or not thinking enough, ha. Everything you said and what was posted I understood I was just wondering how xx lbs of glassed wood will remain suspended until the resin hardens to hold it in place. Your wedge idea is exactly what I needed to hear.

I started a new thread and have contacted glassdave directly. Thank you for your offer as well.

Jeysson