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-   -   Conservative performance? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/do-yourself-boating-budget/245277-conservative-performance.html)

DollaBill 01-09-2011 12:12 PM

As far as the drive you may want to look into the bravo 2. It was designed for heavier sport cruiser models. They are reliable and reasonably priced.

HaxbySpeed 01-09-2011 12:53 PM

The 25 Bert is a great hull! which style do you have? I've owned two, they both came with 4cyl and alpha's. A single big block is an easy conversion, the Bravo 2 worked well but the bravo 3 or volvo dp gives a little more stern lift and better performance. A 383 could work well but you may need to shift some ballast around. I think your best bet would be to buy a complete package. You can get a worn out one cheap and rebuild it, at least then you'd have all the pieces you need. 496's can be found cheap and 454mag's and mpi's.

Dave McReeferson 01-09-2011 02:49 PM

Sport convertible, I am planning a cc conversion.

What sort of power have you tried in your Berts, or did you stick with the fours? Do you have any rough performance and efficiency numbers?

4bus 01-10-2011 09:34 PM

With a boat that size and weight the fuel savings is nothing, in some cases the SB fuel mileage can be worse because it works harder to cruise.

I agree to start with at least a blown up Gen V, VI or 496 BBC Merc. The accessories and rigging will blow your budget real fast if you shop for them ala carte.

bill120mph 01-13-2011 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by Dave McReeferson (Post 3292493)
It is.

Nice to see you, I have been on reefers for a couple of years(mostly lurking with the same sn) I doubt you will be going alpha 1 on this but I have a garage full of parts(gimble rams etc.. as well as some sbc parts.. all alpha 1 gen 1.
Good Luck with your build.

SeaHorse32 01-13-2011 11:23 PM

Aye McReeferson tis the irish
 
Since you do not have a marine rigged engine - I would say you should try to pick up the entire engine assembly from e-bay. Often pull out motors are for sale when another individual is upgrading. Saw two HP500 Merc Racing engines pulled for sale couple of months ago.

Another angle would be to contact a marine engine builder. You would not believe the amount of "take off" equipment laying around this sort of shop as well as compete engines looking for a home. Some negotiation would get you the whole assembly.

It takes a wise man to appreciate what a "stock" engine is. They are built by engineers to perform a specific duty - give good fuel use, and live a long time. Usually the larger and simpler the better. I would say the 454 MAG Mercruiser - 385 hp - or the 502 MAG Mercruiser - 415 hp. Both of these engine short blocks are still in production and were widely manufactured ten or so years ago so used parts and equipment availability is good. Also these engines used forged components - crankshaft, rods and pistons all of which take a considerable beating in a marine engine owing to the load and operating speed. These are long living engine designs. Both of these engines were used in offshore hulls as well as large cruiser hulls and can easily perform well in each design. These engines can be serviced by any Mercruiser dealer from the Florida keys to the State of Maine. Usually custom built racing type equipment is an absolute headache to get service if you cannot do it yourself.

Carburator or fuel injection is another choice, I am guessing that the carb would be the most servicable and easiest to keep up. Most Mercruisers used automotive designs by Holley, Carter or Rochester and marinas are fairly familiar with them. This would mean a motor built before 1998. Fuel injection is newer and probably more economical with regard to fuel consumption, but getting the advanced electronics worked out and or repaired is sometimes a hassle.

Bravo Mercruiser is the easy sterndrive choice. The Bravo is incredably strong when used with a stock engine. It is widely serviced and comes in three forms. Bravo I - is the standard performance drive, Bravo II - swings a very larger propeller for work boats and barge use. Bravo III - is usually the drive of choice for cruisers and has two counter rotating propellors for more fuel efficiency. This can be an expensive setup to prop in. Although companies like B-Blades propellor will loan test propellors through the mail to help dial in propellor selections.

Dave McReeferson 01-15-2011 04:39 PM

This is all very helpful info, thank you all for chiming in. There are so many options to go over, it is hard to figure out where to focus my attention, all of this input certainly helps with that.

I had kind of figured I would end up going with the Bravo III option, but what to mate to it was a big blank for me. Now I guess it is time to start looking for a suitable motor in need of rebuilding.

I know that (of course) every motor is going to be it's own unique can of worms, but perhaps some of you can chime in on what you may expect I may need to put into a "tired" mercruiser to breath new life into her and ensure reliable service. Again, I know every motor is going to be different, but, if you were to pick up what you considered to be an ideal candidate for a refresh, what would you be expecting to put in right off the top before you really started digging?

SeaHorse32 01-15-2011 11:51 PM

Engine rebuild
 
Dave,

Marine engines are usually automotive engines by design. So the process and procedure for repairing them - of refreshing them are fairly standard. Because the marine engine runs at near full power a great deal of the time they get much more wear.

Basically the engine wears in several standard ways. The crankshaft has bearing surfaces that are ground true and straight. The engine block is bored with round straight cylinders. In the life of the engine these two components are the heart of the engine. The crankshaft bearing surfaces often wear in an out of round condition and are refinished by a crankshaft grinding company. The engine block wears the cylinders into taperd cone shape. Usually this is repaired by boring out the cylinders and installing new oversize pistons. Engine block cylinder head surfaces are examined for warpage and flatness and refinished if necessary. Prefered crankshafts are always forged steel.

Cylinder heads often warp where they contact the block and are checked for straightness. The valves are removed and usually replaced because of the stress they encounter with quality marine valves. The valves run in valve guides which are holes in the heads and are checked for taper and wear and replaced if necessary. The valves are seated in the head by a grinding operation that adjusts the seat surfaces to match the face of the valves. Valve springs are usually just replaced with new marine parts.

Valve gear is usually the weak spot in most marine engine design because the manufacturers will not pay for truely quality rocker arms and pushrods. Replacing these with racing equipment is standard operating procedure.

Engine pistons are fitted with new piston rings which are machined to fit the diameter of the cylinders and the grooves of the pistons. Forged pistons are prefered over cast aluminum pistons because they are stronger

Connecting rods are examined for any damage and for straightness and roundness of the holes in each end.

Pistons, rods, and crankshaft need to have the balance checked so that they run without vibration.

Crankshaft bearings are purchased new and checked for proper fit when the engine is assembled.

Camshaft is examined for any damage - the timing gears and chain that drive the camshaft are usually replaced.

Now all the parts in a marine engine are of the severest duty design and automotive parts are not suitable substitutes.

Usually it is more economical to have a marine engine builder complete all these operations as they are beyond the scope of most mechanics.

Dr. d

Dave McReeferson 01-16-2011 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by SeaHorse32 (Post 3298459)
Dave,

Marine engines are usually automotive engines by design. So the process and procedure for repairing them - of refreshing them are fairly standard. Because the marine engine runs at near full power a great deal of the time they get much more wear.

Basically the engine wears in several standard ways. The crankshaft has bearing surfaces that are ground true and straight. The engine block is bored with round straight cylinders. In the life of the engine these two components are the heart of the engine. The crankshaft bearing surfaces often wear in an out of round condition and are refinished by a crankshaft grinding company. The engine block wears the cylinders into taperd cone shape. Usually this is repaired by boring out the cylinders and installing new oversize pistons. Engine block cylinder head surfaces are examined for warpage and flatness and refinished if necessary. Prefered crankshafts are always forged steel.

Cylinder heads often warp where they contact the block and are checked for straightness. The valves are removed and usually replaced because of the stress they encounter with quality marine valves. The valves run in valve guides which are holes in the heads and are checked for taper and wear and replaced if necessary. The valves are seated in the head by a grinding operation that adjusts the seat surfaces to match the face of the valves. Valve springs are usually just replaced with new marine parts.

Valve gear is usually the weak spot in most marine engine design because the manufacturers will not pay for truely quality rocker arms and pushrods. Replacing these with racing equipment is standard operating procedure.

Engine pistons are fitted with new piston rings which are machined to fit the diameter of the cylinders and the grooves of the pistons. Forged pistons are prefered over cast aluminum pistons because they are stronger

Connecting rods are examined for any damage and for straightness and roundness of the holes in each end.

Pistons, rods, and crankshaft need to have the balance checked so that they run without vibration.

Crankshaft bearings are purchased new and checked for proper fit when the engine is assembled.

Camshaft is examined for any damage - the timing gears and chain that drive the camshaft are usually replaced.

Now all the parts in a marine engine are of the severest duty design and automotive parts are not suitable substitutes.

Usually it is more economical to have a marine engine builder complete all these operations as they are beyond the scope of most mechanics.

Dr. d

Very helpful, thank you for taking the time to write that up.

- Dave

Dave McReeferson 01-16-2011 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by bill120mph (Post 3296598)
Nice to see you, I have been on reefers for a couple of years(mostly lurking with the same sn) I doubt you will be going alpha 1 on this but I have a garage full of parts(gimble rams etc.. as well as some sbc parts.. all alpha 1 gen 1.
Good Luck with your build.

Thanks Bill. Yeah, I recognized the SN right away. Haven't been doing much of the reefing lately. Just had a kid, and something needed to give. I grew up on the water, and still live on an island, so the boats aren't going anywhere...


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