Alignment Offshore Eng Mounts
 

Anyone had their transom partially replaced and had to re-align the engine with offshore mounts? Have a 1989 Baja 320 with twin 454 & Brovo drives. Had half of the transome replaced and cannot get the motor to re-align. The front mounts are Off-shore rigid mounts so there really is no adjustment unless you re-drill all the holes. I found a Merc service bulletin indicating to remove the double lock washer on the rear mounts but, it does not indicate this for older mount like mine. Only shows them for newer flywheel covers 99 & up.? I have read some post about the gimbel bearing (I installed a brand new one) being out of align and having to hit all four sides of it with the alignment tool...? I am appx 3/16" off alignment and cannot get it there...

Update to my alignment issue with offshore motor mounts. Took the boat back to the fiberglass repair shop in mid-Michigan that did the repair and had their installers attempt to align the engine and they could not do it. I took the boat to another shop and it appears the replacement transom was made incorrectly and will have to be removed and replaced. Unfortunatley the shop I orignally took it to was not as experianced as they told me they were. Time to call the attorney

If they replaced the core of the transom, I dont see how that could have changed anything alignment wise, as the outer holes of the transom (mounting holes) should have not been modified. Sounds like you need to take it somewhere where they no what they are doing.

I highly recommend a phone call to Wesco Racing, in Jenison, Mi. Dave Wesseldyke will get it sorted out for you.

Seems like it would be easier to remount the front mount in proper alignment than redo the transom. 3/16 of an inch shouldn't make a difference in any other dimension.

Yes, the original holes are still there as they only replaced the core. However, the problem is the inside transom is not true to the exterior transom surface. Therefore, some of the mounting surface area for the gimbal housing on the inner transom is uneven and different thickness. This overall is causing the angle of rear mounts to change on the gimbal housing mounting plate. According to Mercrusier this needs to be within 1/8" of spec or else alignment cannot be achieved.

Oh, that there is a BIG mistake. Hope they make it right.

Unfortunatley the shop that worked on it only offer is to bring it back and let it sit there for four weeks before they can get it in and see if they can get it right...? I have already had it back to them twice because, of problems with the repair. Don't think I am going to take it back for a third time. Hopefully, I can get some assitance with a attorney's help. If you ever have transom repair work done be very careful and do your research on the shop up front. I had several other repair jobs done by this shop and was happy with it. However, nothing was a complex as the transom replacement and the shop indicated they could do this no problem. Guess, I should have done some more "homework" on their work on a job like this.

SOUNDS LIKE HALF ASS WORK TO ME !!!!

If replacing transom..either replace it full or dont mess with it !

Your not only buying one shoe at a store either..are you ?

Looks like your are between a rock and a hardplace.
Do you have the racing solid motor mounts ?
I would remove the bolts from the mount from the boat. Hoist the motor to where it belongs, using the proper alignment tool. Now with a flashlight and a mirror look in the existing holes. You should be able to see how far off you are !
If your off slightly, you could drill additional holes in the mount, this would keep the engine where it belongs. Install the bolts, then elongate the other holes by drilling thru the mount. If they are not too far off. Either way it is a tough thing to get at.
Good Luck and Post what you do.
Brian

We have taken over this project to replace the transom, stringers and firewall for Robert. The original transom was 2 inches thick from Baja and the shop that replaced port side half of his transom made it from 2 1/2 to 2 5/8 thick with voids and some of the worst glass work I have ever seen. We found 2 bad spots on the starboard side, center stringers and lower half of firewall rotten out. This 320 Baja is 1 of the cleanest you will find anywhere and deservers to be brought back to life the proper way. I will post the progress on this thread and add a page to my website.

Just a quick update as many people have PM me asking how the repair has went. The partial transom from the first shop was removed and a new transom and stringers installed by a second repair shop. I have since pulled the boat from the second repair shop as the project was not getting completed. The boat has now been completed and has been back in the water for a few weeks. Its has been a terrible experiance overall but, we are back running.

I don't want to get into any of the who done it stuff but I live in the area and I am having some repair done. Would you pm me with the shop to avoid please?

I am the second shop that did the work to the boat and Robert is way off base coming on here and saying that the work was not being completed. He brought me the boat in the last week of April at the beginning of our boating season and the busiest time of year. There was a 1 month delay as Robert had used 5200 to install everything on the transom including the K-planes and gimbals.I had to order 7 3M decal removal blades at $54.00 each that took 3 weeks to get from 3 different sources which all got destroyed in the removal process.The removal of the transom hardware took 3 men 2 days to get off without totally destroying the transom at which time we almost gave up on doing the project. The original inner transom removal went as it should until we got to the repair done by the other shop. He used Epoxy resin by the ton and was a nightmare to remove. The stringers were also rotten including the forward firewall and stringers forward along the gas tank.

Now we are in the busiest time of the year for us and have twice the work we thought when the boat arrived but the Gach's wanted it now and I did everything I could to get it done. They MUST have it for the July 4 weekend and 2 weeks before I lock the doors and refuse to take on any other work until it was. I put my crew on 14 hour days myself working 16 to 18 hour days 7 days a week. Robert tells me that I should lower my work ethics and just put it back together the fastest way possible so he could boat on the forth.I went through about 10 times the grinding discs need to do the job because of trying to sand between layups before they were totally cured. Then during the week before the forth Roberts wife calls me while I am grinding in their boat and wants to know when it is going to be done. I tell her about 4 o'clock on saturday (July 2) and she goes ballistic on me saying that is not good enough for her she wants it Friday. I hang up after she starts getting nasty. I stop what I was doing and pull the boat out and bring in 3 other jobs that were not going to make the weekend but did.Instead of busting or balls on their boat 3 other families, my help and my family got to enjoy the weekend at which time I had only had 1 day off in 4 months (thanks Tina). Robert calls me back on Tuesday the 5th wanting to know when he can get his boat and I told him that I was going to work on it daily and doing it the proper way (not rushing everything) and we agreed that if I did not have it done and ready for water testing by the following Wednesday that I would wave all the addition costs of the repair which was thousands of dollars. We shook hands and he went home. He called me the next day telling me he changed his mind and decided that he wanted it now. Over the next 2 days we finished all glass work and he came and got it unrigged or painted. His decision not mine.Every time Robert came to the shop all without us knowing he was coming we were working on his boat.I could have had this boat completely done with 3 more days work and I would have felt a lot better about the beating I took but the customer is always right.

Looking at the time line of the posts this seems a little more accurate, I have no personal experience with anyone involved here, but when I first read it and looked at the dates I found it odd someone would start a transom repair in april and expect to be in the water already?

I agree, with the extra work caused by the first shop it would not be a quick job! I would like to find out who the first shop was to avoid a costly mistake.

It must be the new OSO members but I have another new customer from Wisconsin that drop his boat off a couple of weeks ago that thought he was going to get R&R and rebuild for his Big block at between $1000-$1500 when that was the R&R and tear down price. The pictures will show why this cost alone was higher than normal. It took 2 days just to get the rear motor mount bolts out without taking a saw to the transom inner plate. 3/8's bolt heads where rusted down to 12 MM and we had to hammer the sockets on.How do you salt water guys do it all the time? This is the 4th salt water engine job in 2 years and I warn them up front what we can run into but they do not listen. It needs over 6K in add ons plus the port CMI leaking salt water into #1 cylinder without the cost of the rebuild but he is only willing to go up to 4K for a finished job and wants it next week. Just a heads up in case this guy wants to start a thread about how unhappy he is.

if you want to r&r and rebuild big blocks for $1500 i got 2 more on there way to you tomorrow lol

No problem I will use the bolts and old parts off of his engine.

Every time I get pissed off working on strictly fresh water stuff, I remember the few salt water boats that I've had the "good fortune" to work on. Those pictures bring back some ugly memories.

For instance, we have one (super cheap) customer who bought a 28' Bayliner from North Carolina. He "saved a bundle" over buying one up here and this one was a real salt water beauty. It also included such wonderful options as a latex paint job (house paint of course) and all of the problems you might expect from salt. He's more than made up the savings in repairs on stuff that's broken, cracked, corroded or just plain vaporized from the salt water. You can have it!

If you think that's fun join me working on some plow trucks over the winter...... at least the rust flakes dont fall in your eyes in the boat lol

That's why I flush and squirt off the boat after every ride. If not you've got junk.

I Brought you the boat on 4/28 and discussed repair options and you indicated you could start on it Monday as your shop had openings and your glass repair person was caught up on work. We discussed how the K-plans were installed at that time and you indicated you use the same product to install K-plan mounts. A week later after the repair started we discussed that the K-Plans were becoming a challenge to remove and you had tools on order. At this time you indicated this probably added 2-3 days to the project. I had already agreed up front to replace the stringers along with the transom as part of the original estimate. Once the fwd bulk head was removed on 6/13 the front stringer next to the fuel tank was identified as damaged as neither of us where aware of prior to this. At this time you indicated this only added some material and a couple days to the project time line. When I brought you the boat on 4/28 we discussed that I had tentative commitments during the week of 7/4 and would like the boat back by then if possible. You agreed that this should be achievable. On 6/7, I asked you if I should start canceling plans as there were some delays and the project was not moving at the pace originally thought. You said NO. I told you I had commitments that I need to cancel before I lost “$” on them and you indicated the boat would be done. On 6/21 we discussed this again and you told me the boat would be done for 7/4. On 6/29 when it was obvious the boat was not going to be complete by 7/4 we discussed removing some items from the original estimate in consideration of it allowing time to complete the boat for 7/4 since now I could no longer cancel my prior commitments that you said not to cancel. I did not ask you to lower your work “ethic”. We discussed not painting the engine compartment and also not replacing the swivel pin seals as I would remove the engines and swivel pins over the winter and repair them then. We only discussed options to shorten the time to complete the boat and never discussed anything in regards to lowering your work “ethic”. I was about to lose a couple thousand on my prior commitments that could have been avoided as discussed with you on 6/7.
In regards to my wife (the customer) calling you upset, seems only reasonable to me considering the amount of “$” we were now loosing (and also paying you) for commitments we asked you multiple times if we should cancel. I don’t believe she went “ballistic” but, she (the customer) had every right to be upset. Especially, after you hung up on her. When I called you back on the 7/5 we did not discuss having the boat complete the following Wednesday. The last discussion we had was on 6/29 and you indicated the boat would be complete on 7/5 or 7/6 and this is also what you told my wife.
I was at your shop on 7/11 and that is when we discussed having the boat completed the following Wednesday (7/20, nine days later) for water testing. I did agree to that then and after further consideration felt that this date was not sufficient. This also would have required me to change other commitments and more lost time at work to this project and not having previously met any other prior completion time lines it seemed it was not worth the frustration. Therefore, I decided to pick the boat up on 7/15 instead of having more time wasted on unmet deadlines when there was nothing I could do about it even if the boat was not done by 7/20.
As you & I discussed previously my frustration was not that the boat was not done by 7/4, but, that you continued to indicate it would be complete and this was costing me lost deposit fee’s, vacation time for both my wife and I. All this could have been avoided. I brought my boat to you because; you indicated that you only work on off-shore boats and projects like mine. I guess my expectations as the customer are just too high.

Robert,
We never use 5200 for mounting large items on the transom. We use 4200 removable in those areas and told you that at the time it was going to be a problem. On the Monday after you dropped the off we did have the boat completely strip of its engines and all hardware except the K-Planes and that is when all the delays started. By the time the tools arrived to remove them the early spring rains had stop and our boating season was upon us.By then I had 17 boats sitting in my yard for work that were 1 and 2 day jobs that had to be done if I wanted any future business. I am sorry but those other boats were more important at the time than 1 huge project that should have been addressed during the off season. Had we been able to remove the tabs during the first 3 weeks this would have turned out much differently and been way ahead of schedule but it did not. You continued to make plans with the boat every week without it being done, that is not my fault but you kept blaming me while we WERE working on your boat every chance we could which most weeks over 80 man hours and some over 120.

Your wife had a nasty tone as soon as I picked up the phone and became VERY demanding. I tried to reason with her and she started to scream,.Thats when I hung the phone up and had enough ended my quest to get your boat done by the 4th.You were another issue with you downer attitude every time you came to the shop which considering our distance was way to much for my taste.When you would arrive I would just go about my work knowing your stay was only to bring gloom upon us and eventually you would go home.

I feel as most here would agree including all the customers that were after my time while I was doing your project that I did everything I could to get your boat done in a timely manor. Lets not forget that I finished it before anybody else you called would even consider taking it on.In your defense you did take it to the other shop in the fall but that has no bearing on the fact that I did not get it until 2 days before May. Poor planning on your part should not make me the bad guy and I feel your post yesterday was just an attempt to do that. I have been on this site for many years and your opening line of many members asking about your project by sending you PM's I feel was just a fabrication because I had already posted in the reply before your post that I had indeed taken on the project.

I am glad for you that you are boating and feel I am the main reason that you even made it in the water this year. Its just a shame that it was with bad feelings on your part and I had to go through all the hardship put on by you and your wife during the project that continues here still today.

By the way Rob please tell the members here how the project turned out quality wise. I would have made a complete pictorial of it on my site but I quit taking pictures after the project/customer became unbearable.

I still want to know who the very first shop was that left a transom with 2-2.5" thickness and uneven???

Why would members PM you vs ask you openly here? There was no hint of any wrong doing by him beforehand.

Or is that statement fabricated as a way of slamming brian41 knowing he would respond to defend himself, so you could reply?

I thought I read that when brian spoke with his wife that he would have finished the boat by 7/2 and that she got upset and told brian that wasn't good enough? 7/2 is still before 7/4 isn't it? Not sure at that point why brian stopped working on the boat and just didn't finish it up by 7/2 like he told the wife? It always sucks when things don't go as planned, thats boating though, get used to it. How long did gach own this fine piece of marine hardware?> Is he responcible for all the rot?

I stopped working on the boat and did not finish it for the 4th weekend the second I hug up the phone with her and decided to finish 3 other boats that were waiting patiently for me to finish the Gach's boat. Like I said in the previous post those 3 customers got use their boats for the 4th when they were not scheduled to be worked on until the following week because of the Gach's project. Her call was the last straw of weeks of gloom that Robert was giving me and I had enough knowing that nothing I did for them at that point would make them happy. Robert told me several times "I don't care about anybody else's boat" yet the other customers not being happy they had to wait understood.

I was in Brians shop a few times the week of July 4 and seen gach's boat in there. Every time I was there he was working on it. Brians work is amazing, probably the best I have ever seen. And I used to do fiberglass work at Brennan Marine (now skipper buds) years ago before I joined the USCG. I can't stand impatiant people either, some people have no idea how time consuming glass work is and not to mention how big of a job gach's boat was.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend or imply that Brian did anything but outstanding work. I understand how it al works, unforseen damage and delays. I am not one of those PITA customers, up your azz all the time. it sounds like this guy was. It makes it worse when your bustin your azz to try and accomodate the customer, no matter how big of a DIC hes being. I hope you got paid for all your time and effort?

I hope you got paid for all your time and effort?[/QUOTE]



When it was all said and done I made about 20% of my shop rate for the hours I put in it. Because of all the gloom they were giving me I just wanted it done and gone and did it for less than the original estimate because the thousand upon thousands of dollars they lost in trips they planned during the time I had the boat.

sounds like it was a no win deal for everybody involved....been there myself, anybody in business has...sorry for both party's..

These situations always suck for both the dealer and the client. I own an AV company and every once in a while you get into one of these types of jobs that just kill you. I just finished up one. I thought I could have the sytem up and running by Jan. 30th. I JUST finished it about 2 weeks ago. There were many more issues then I thought. We got the job done and the customer is happy but I lost my shirt.

What is most important I think is that in the end all the waiting is worth it and the job is well done. Of course we all wish things worked out perfectly but that just is not the case. If I looked into my bilge and had the satisfaction that it was perfect then I would be happy even if I had missed a few days of vacation for it.

There's always two sides to every story, the truth is perenially in the middle. I have no doubt the customer was unreasonable (who HASN'T had a woman scream at them?) lol. And having said that, who hasn't got a runaround from a shop at some point, regardless of how good they are?

But were I the owner, I simply would have set up a contingency plan in case the schedule shifted (rent, borrow another boat, etc.). And leave the guys to their work.... You have to be realistic on a job like this that there can be delays...

When it was all said and done I made about 20% of my shop rate for the hours I put in it. Because of all the gloom they were giving me I just wanted it done and gone and did it for less than the original estimate because the thousand upon thousands of dollars they lost in trips they planned during the time I had the boat.[/QUOTE]

So u made right and the boat is 100% done ??? NICE, good move !!!!!!

Seriously ? Fabricated message…? Sorry but, I have better things to do than that.
As I stated in my previous post my “plans” were provided to you upfront and I had asked you to advise me multiple times if I need to changes these.
Not sure what you thought my attitude should have been when I came to your shop? Not sure how that has any meaning to the project? In most cases, it seemed as you thought I should not have any opinion and just left my boat there for you complete sometime in 2011..?
Yes, you did take the boat in three wks earlier than any other shop but, it also sat there for at least this long I am not sure how anyone could say what another shop might or might not have gotten done in the same time frame. Seems irrelevant to me.
Yes, I do have many bad feelings as I feel the project was not handled very well and my expectations were not even considered. I agree it was a big project and additional repairs were identified but, did not seem to be a concern to you at the final outcome. Yes, I indicated that I was not concerned about other customer’s boats in your shop because, this had no relation to my situation. It is your shop to manage and none of this is a concern to me. I am sure any other customer would say the same as they have no idea what your commitment is to them or any other repair at your shop. One could only expect that there would be multiple jobs going at a time and being managed to meet completion dates
You indicated in a later post that you only made 20% of your shop rate yet I still paid the original estimate with not having motors, gimbals, drives, and gel work completed. Yes, there was additional stringer work that absorbed some of the cost but I do not see were you gave me any consideration for my losses nor did you ever mention this when I picked up the boat and paid you. You might have lost some margin overall but, I feel much of this had to do with the fact that you had to do the work instead of your shop work force finishing the job.
In regards to posting anything about to the quality of the work I will not. I have not commented on any of the work in any posting and will not. Working with you was not worth the cost and that is what is made this a dissatisfying experience. I feel there was sufficient time for the job (12wks) and multiple opportunities for you to indicate different if needed.

I'm assuming that the work done by Brian was satisfactory or i am SURE we would have heard otherwise. Obviously his engines went back in without incident or we SURELY would have heard about it. i never have my wife call anyone regarding car or boat repairs, had Gach's not gotten involved it seems like the job just might have been finish in the nick of time. Would he rather the job got rushed so that 1 day into the vacation it had to be cut short due to some sort of failure? it was up to gach to determine wether or not he felt he needed to cancel his plans or not if it was that close to the deadline he had set. I call BS on him getting any PM's from members here, where there any other posts before this thread started? I'd still like to know who owned the boat while it became rotted to this point and if it was Gach, doesn't he think he should assume some of the heat for letting his boat deteriorate to the point of needing so much repair?

Bottom line is, we have all had to cancel our plans either before or during what we wanted to be such a fun time due to breakdowns of one type or another, we suck it up and move on. I'm sure we have all paid a bill for repairs that we might have thought was more than it should be and it WILL happen again. Suck it up and move on. Be happy for the times that things go well and the fun you have on the good days. If you can't? Then you need to find another hobby or passtime because your not meant for powerboats. And at all costs, keep your wife or GF away from the shop guys. Need to know basis only.

What does a unsatisfiable customer that tries to discredit someones hard work make good reading for you???

I forgot to mention that not all the time that Robert was at my shop was bad. On 2 of his visits he came in very nice while he was looking for information to file a lawsuit against the first shop. After he got what he was looking for then the gloom continued almost instantly.Remember that 2 days before taking the boat we had shook hands on completing the job by the following wednesday.If I did not finish it by then I would be out $$$$$. I got a call from him the next day telling me that he had gone to his lawyer and had to give him money so now HE could no longer afford to finish the boat. I told him that I would stick with the original estimate for the repair and not charge him for all the additional work in exchange for him finishing the rigging. He agreed and payed me.I was not happy about it I but was not going to do it for free as he proposed.

Wow, where did you come up with that story..? I did call you the next day and indicated I had things going on with my attorney and did not have time to take off work to test the boat on wednesday. I never said I had to pay my lawyer any money nor did I ever say I could not afford to finish the boat.. That is a bunch of "BS".. I also said it was not worth my time to wait for the boat to get complete and take more time off work to work with you or my pending case.
At this point summer is already half over.
I never indicated to you where I was going to take the boat next to have it completed. As I had stated in several post before the issue was dealing with you and your excuses. As I mentioned I picked the boat up because, I now had other projects going on and did not have time to continue to work with you and decided to look for another solution to getting the boat complete. Also, I was not confident the boat would be done on the following Wednesday just like several other deadline dates where discussed in the past and did not get meet but, there was nothing I could do about those either.

Yes you did agree that you might be out some $$$$ if the boat was not complete by the folllowing wednesday (7/20) however, as I indicated I was not confident this deadline would be meet and I did not have any re-course if it was not. Therfore, I picked the boat up and moved it as I should have long before then.

Robert you are out right lying. Our conversation the following morning was exactly as I stated.You wanted me to finish the boat and give you all the extra work for free because you told me you could not afford the lawsuit and the additional repairs already done to your boat. I said no way and we agreed that I would finish up the glass work and you would finish the rigging.I even accepted less money than the bill but marked it paid in full just to get you on your way.You received all your parts boxed in good order and we even loaded everything for you. I also spent time with you showing you the proper way to line the engine and mounts so you would not have any problems with the install.It is clear you are an unsatisfiable customer that nobody wants to deal with and I feel sorry for any shop you go to in the future. Not 1 person has come on this thread and agreed with you about the time frame that this project took being out of hand. In fact most thought you getting your boat back this year was a blessing but still you complain. This entire thread after the fact was just an attempt to discredit me but I am done with you and hope I do not have the misfortune of have another customer like you again.