Cheap Amplifiers, worth it?
 

Im sourcing out all the parts I need to install a stereo system in my boat. Since I'm on a tight budget, I'd like to use a lot of the stuff I have layin around in storage.

The only thing that I don't have is amps. Just in browsing around on Amazon.com, I see Orion 1000.1 amps are about $4000 and Lanzar 1000.1 amps are about $85.

What is the difference? I know thats two extremes and not really interested in either brand. I am trying to push two infinity kappa 124.7's in a ported box. Do the cheaper amps use more power or do they not live as long or what? I can replace a $100 amp 20 times for the price of some of these!

Also, I will be adding two batteries to run the stereo system so I don't have to worry about no-start situations anymore. What kind of timeframe can I expect to run a system that has 6 6.5's and 2 12'' subs off of two batteries and how should I wire them?

Kicker makes very good reasonably priced amps. You get what you pay for up to a certain extent. Your are not looking for competiton type equipment.... But the cheap crap is useless. There is no set standard for rating the power output, so the manufactures can really stretch their numbers.... For the record, I have kicker amps running my highs, and a Kenwood 1800 x 1 Class D sub woofer AMP that I bought for about $250 from Crutchfield, and it has been an absolute beast. The cheap stuff may very well put out 1000 watts but at such a high distortion level it will nuke your sub long before you reach that level.

With that said, if you can find a good deal on some Alpine Digital Amps, I have heard they are very small and compact, put out huge amounts of "clean" power and are very energy efficent.

Battery life will depend on a multitude of things. Battery capacity, Amp efficency, wiring, quality of charge. I have 1 group 27 battery for starting and running purpose and 2 True Deep Cycle AGM Group 31 House Batteries wired parallel to power the stereo. At about 3/4 volume with aproximately 2500 watts of total power I get a solid 8-10 hours. I charge the House batteries off of an onboard 30amp charger overnight. The alternator will not put a dent in them unless I had all day and night to drive around at 3000 rpm........... Again quality of components will greatly effect the consumption of your batteries.

Amps are tricky. For the most part, nowadays, wattage ratings are pretty much BULL$HIT.

What you're looking for in a amp, is several things. Peak wattage really means nothing, especially when its rated at BS levels. Think of Joe Blow the engine builder. He can build you a engine for your boat, and dyno it. He can make the dyno sheet show whatever he wants, and you think, wow, it makes great power. Then you install it in your boat and you don't go any faster.

High end amps usually rate their nominal power, at 12.5V. Continuous wattage output. (RMS). Cheaper amps, will rate their power output at 14.4V.

For subs, you want a powerful amp. Your Kappas can handle 350W RMS. Give it to them. Nothing worse for a speaker than underpowering it. Once the amplifier starts Clipping (distorting) it burns the voice coils up. People think overpowering speakers is what blows them. This is not entirely correct. Underpowering is no good.

Now, do you have to spend a zillion bucks on a amp? No way. Your subs should be selectable, 2, or 8 ohm setup. This gives you some versatility. Running them in parallel, set on the 2 ohm setting, will be a .5 ohm load on the amp. Most amps today, aren't gonna handle that. Wiring them in series/parralel, you can be at 2ohm load. Series will give 8 ohm load.

If you select the 8 ohm version, you can wire them in parallel, for a 4 ohm load.

Ideally, 2ohm is good for power. IF the amp can handle it. If you give us a idea of what you'd like to spend for a sub amp, we can prob make some suggestions....

+1 on the Kicker amps. I had a ZX 700.5 pushing 4 MTX 6.5's and 2 10" MTX subs and it worked very good. It wouldn't win any contests but it was great for a day floating around.

I am going to run 4 JL 7.7 MX770-CCX off of this amp:http://www.amazon.com/Lanzar-VCT4110...=lanzar+vector
Mainly because I already have it. Is the amp too crappy to run the JL's? I dont want to ruin $600 worth of speakers by running a $100 amp but if it will work, then I'd like to use it..

As far as a sub amp, I'd like to spend as little as possible.. $250ish?

For what it's worth... I put a JL Audio 4-channel amp in my boat about 6 years ago. It's a car amp (non-marine) and I think it's a 4300 model. I paid less than $150 for it. I'm running two 10"Babbs and two 6.5" Kickers off of it in my cockpit.


.....and it still cranks like a MoFo to this day!!! :D

Im gonna one up ya!

I am running "AURA" amplifiers. They were manufactured in 1996, and installed in my boat then. They still work like champs. "AURA'' wasn't a big name, but quality made in the USA stuff from the 90's. 17 years on these units! In a boat!

For the most part, there isn't much out there today, that i'd spend money on. I'd rather buy some used stuff from 20 years ago, like Soundstream, ADS, PPI, US Amps, orion, zapco, etc. Maybe this winter I'll put a nice system together.

I am a fan of matching Amp to Speakers when possible--obviously in wattage but in Brand as well. Normally there is a class of amp that you can determine matches the speakers you are looking at or have bought.

You get what you pay for. I went through three amps for my cockpit last year and finally when I bought a JL marine amp the days of shutting down went away. I even was using good name amps but on the cheaper end. I was asking them to push eight cockpit speakers and they hated it even though the RMS matched for the first two. The last one I went overkill and it still didn't work.

That's awesome!! I've never been one to think that the most expensive is the best (comes from growing up poor :)). I went back and searched for my stereo thread. It was the winter of 05/06 and the amp is a JL e4300 model. I paid 199 for it

I have a kicker 450.2 amp that's slightly used I would sell it for 145 plus shipping

Kicker ZXM Amplifier ZXM450.2 Marine Audio
http://amzn.com/B0038KVZ5S

I've got a JL 500/1 Class D I'm not using if you are interested as well. It's been sitting on the shelf for about 3 years since I sold the car it was in. I used to run two JL 10's in a JL factory box off of it.

I'm not sure what its worth, make offer I suppose...

I hear ya. I grew up poor myself. Come to think of it, im still poor! WTF

I have those aura amps, and 4 Alpine Marine 7'' coaxials, and 2 alpine marine 10'' subs under the rear bench. No need to get crazy, I aint gonna drown out those dry stellings!

I second the kicker amps for very little money they do the job and do it well

fixx
 

+1,,you know how much old schook stuff i have laying around?? remember the the old hifonics amps,,i still have a few of those in my donzi and in the suburban i have a punch 300 driving my rear sub and rear speakers,,still thumps and gets me in touble with the local sheriff if i have it too loud lol..chit i still 3 orial amps from the 90's im staring at in my office lol..hey remember alpha sonic amps lol..


what ever amp you decide to buy make sure its a class A,,that is where the power starts and look as the total harmonic distortion... point .05 is a good number if you see a .50 then the amp will distors the music faster then a .05 and 20~20000 hertz which is a snappy amp for dase and all across the board..

An Alpine PDX 1.600 will sound great, have low power draw and they are priced around $275 new on ebay.

the subs that I have say that they are "selectable 1 or 4 ohm".

I am so confused as to how much power I need to run these. Website says max is 1400w and constant is 350w each.

Im leaning towards this Rockford Fosgate Prime R1000.1
http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosga...pr_product_top

http://http://ecx.images-amazon.com/...BL._SX300_.jpg

fixx
 

a 4 ohme speaker will take more power to run,,a 1 ohme will take less power but will also turn up faster and distort easier.. just make sure its a class a mosphet amp..in other words the amp will be more efficient at 4 ohmes then 2 ohmes..

Kicker amps
 

I just installed a Kicker 450.2 & a 350.4 running 4 kicker 6" & 2 10" sub boxes in my wifes pontune boat and they rock the toons very nicely. My Eliminator has 2 700.5 & a450.2 pushing Rockford Fosgate (8)6.5" (4) 8" and (4) 10" subs. I expect it to delaminate the interior when cranked up!! All amps were bought on Ebay for under 300.00 each. Speakers were less than 1/2 retail also. Randy

MTX amps are a good reasonable choice. Highly under-rated at 12v and come with a birth certificate that shows true power and specs.

I've run Rockford, kicker, jl, pretty much all the good ones over the years. But I ran a hifonics Brutus amp in my truck when I built my last system on recommendation from a buddy who owns a stereo shop and the amp has been awesome!!! Very powerful and very reasonably priced. I've had there 1600 watt 2 channel amp running a pair if kicker cvr 12's in my truck for over 8 years and haven't had the first problem with it. I have the amp turned down because when I bought the amp I had plans of running 2 kicker L-7's but never bothered with it because the cvr's were good enough. I like it so much I'm about to use them for all the amps in my boat as the stereo is next on my list.

Check out there website and read some reviews. They make a great product. One of the most underrated amps out there.

Crutchfield has a deal on a 1000w rms 4 channel Rockford fosgate amp for 250. I'd have gotten that, but I picked up two 2 channel 500w kenwoods from onlinecarstereo for 99 a piece! Ill be running 4 6x9s on one and a 10" sub on the other.

If you don't understand how to choose the correct amp based on output at load and the speaker configuration, get someone to help you. One difference I've noticed with cheaper amps is they rarely like running at lower loads like 2 ohms (class ab amps), and 1 ohm for d class amps.

I usually buy the reman ones off of ebay. for less than 100 bucks. The one I have now is a 4 channel 800 w sony. To be honest unless your in a competition or doing something for looks, I dont see where it matters. And being a in marine environment why spend the money on a 4 grand amp, when my $95 sony goes guess what Ill get another one, and wont lose any sleep over so far im on the 3rd year with the sony and no issues. As long as the amp provides the power Im not so sure the sound is going to be any different.

When I built my "system" I used two Profile amps based on nothing more than great ratings off Amazon and Crutchfield. The 2 channel was made specifically for subs and had a separate bass knob that I thought was not needed, but installed it anyway. Proved to be very useful over the years because when switching music types you could adjust the bass to the subs only. The 4 channel was run in 2 ohm from the start and never shut off from heat and the amps were under my rear seat. 7 years later they are still going strong. I think I paid around $150 each for the amps. Unfortunately they are no longer in business.

You have two options with your subs if you are rgoing to run a class D Mono Amp. Switch them to 1 ohm and wire them in series, which will give yo a 2 ohm load. OR switch them to 4 ohm and wire parallel, which will give you a 2 ohm load. Most good Mono AMPS are capable of supporting a 2 ohm load. If yu switch to 1 ohm and wire parallel that would give you a .5 ohm load and that is no good. Also if your switch to 4 ohm and wire in series, this will give you 8 ohm load which would work, but would not be efficent (basically you would be runing your amp at 50%).

My Kicker L7 12 has dual 4 ohm coils. I have them wired parallel for a 2 ohm load which (as previously stated) is running off of a Kenwood 1800x1 Class D Mono Amp.

Amps used t be easy to tell what was good and what was not. You had the amps that were made by zed (Soundstream, ADS, PPI, US Amps, Orion, Zapco, Audison, Autotek, Xtant) All the high end compition amps. Then you had the Japan made amps by the likes of JVC, Sony, Alpine, Panisonic they were good amps, but not like the Zed stuff. Then you had all your lower priced koren amps that actually were not bad amps for the money, names like Profile, Urban Audio Works, & Crunch. Then you had your junk like pyramid. You also had companies like Rockford, JBL, JL and MTX that made their own stuff.

Problem is that alot of the good names were bought out by the cheap companies. They kept the names but just used it to sell cheap stuff. So it has gotten alot harder to tell who is making good stuff. We all know JL is good, but by god it should be for the price. Alpine, Rockford, Kicker and Memphis all make decent amps, and I have personally used them in differnt systems I have done with good results. One kind of unknow brand I have used and been very pleased with the performance and price is Powerbass.

The best thing I can say is look around at what the stereo shops in your area are using. If it's real cheap, it probably is. If you can only find it on Ebay, it's probably not that good. If you get it at Wal-Mart at least they will take anything back.

Speaking of old amps. Mine were originally installed in my ex-bosses 33 Powerplay in 1993. I bought them from him and now they are in my Baja. 20 years in boats getting the heck beat out of them. Running at crazy ohm loads (I have them all running at 1.3ohm and my sub amp is bridged running 1.3 ohm). They sound great have tons of power and have never given me any problems. Mine are Autoteks made by Zed and you will have to wait for me to die before I will ever part with them.

Running time will depend on what kind of batteries you use, what amps you use and how hard you run the system. My system running pretty hard on three series 27 deep cycles will go about 4 hours before I have to start the engines and charge. They are not the best of battery and I need to upgrade them.

That Lanzar amp is made by Pyramid. Not the best of amps. I personaly would look at somethign else. If you like the Rockford for the subs I might look at this for the JL's http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/produ...?itemid=120545

I don't think that is a current model amp, but it should work.

Your subs are dual voice coil 2ohm subs. Depending on how you wire them they are either 1 ohm in parallel, thats where you tie the positive and negative leads together. Or they are 4 ohm subs in series when you have the positive lead from the amp to on positive, then the negative from that voice coild goes to the positive on the second voice coil and then the negative from that voice coil goes to the negative on the amp. So like stated before I would run the subs in series so they are 4 ohm each. If you get a 2 channel amp you are going to need atleast 350watts per channel. If you get a mono amp you will need to run the subs series and then parallel the two subs to the amp to show a 2ohm load. In that case you are going to need atleast 700 watts at 2ohms mono amp.

i bought a battery isolator still havent hooked it up. But I was going to hook the isolator to the third battery. Isolator works by allowing that battery to drain to a certain level and soon as it gets so far it disconnects it thus not draining the rest. then when you start up it it recharges it. I would think one batterys hould give you 3-4hrs of play time. I havent been to get to it yet, but seems like a good idea