Need help with starter issues!!!
 

New to the forum but have found a lot of sage advice in a short time.

I recently bought a boat with a 2003 6.2L 377 Merc. Good price and relatively clean but I knew she needed some work.

In short order I found a fuel leak which ended up coming from Cool Fuel rail under oil pan. Engine had to be pulled to reach it for replacement. While engine was out, I put new Merc risers and manifolds on it. Ran it on the stand. Started and ran fine. Shut it down for adjustments and the starter went. When I checked into it, I found the previous owner had put a rebuild starter on it recently. So, I pulled the started and took it back to the rebuild shop where, without question or charge, swapped it out with another. It was installed and engine started fine and ran great.

A few days later the engine was installed on boat and I started running it. I ran offshore for a night cruise and upon return to the boatel, I shut her down to offload and when I went to restart her to flush the block "bam", starter went again! So this is three starters in 1.5 months. Each one is getting about 10 to 15 cranks/starts at the maximum!

- So I pull that starter, which was a lot more difficult in the boat than on the stand. I took it to the shop again where they rebuilt it and had it back to me in a couple hours.

-While starter was being rebuilt I jacked the engine over with socket and ratchet. Met some compression but didnt seem to hit any brick walls like I would if I had hydro lock.

-Then I started pulling plugs one at a time. Tapping them on dry paper to see if they had any moisture or condensation in them. No water to be found and the plugs appeared to be showing normal carbon build up and wear(not super clean as one might expect if they were getting wet).

-Then I hooked up the hose and ran water through the block withouth running it as the plugs were still out and didnt have a starter yet. I did this for about 10 minutes and checked all the cylinders for water/moisture. I did it two more times and found absolutely no sign of water in cylinders.

-When I got the starter back, with plugs removed, I had my hired help(my son)hit the ignition and the starter did its thing. With no compression due to plugs being out, it turned over easily enough and there were no signs that the cylinders were spitting water out of the spark plug hole. I had laid over the engine and was eyeballing the plug holes on the Starboard side while he turned the key. I felt the compressed air blowing out of each of the cylinders on the Stbd side but got no moisture. With that in mind, I gave each cylinder a quick spray of fogging solution and installed new plugs since the old plugs were out and I figured good time to do it.

-Then I ran the engine on a hose to let it warm up and pulled plugs again. No water to be found.

-This past Saturday, I trailered the boat to a ramp on the Eastern Shore by the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. Loaded it to capacity with family and friends, ran to the barrier islands, towed some wakeboarders and hit the TIKI Bar at Sunset Marina. Nice time!!!! When I got back to ramp, I shut boat down to offload and when I went to start it to get it trailered the started went again!!!! 4th time!!

Standard convention says hydro lock, but I dont think that is the case. I havent had the chance to do anything with it yet and it was dark so I couldnt see much, but I want to do the following:

-Check voltage to starter to make sure it is getting enough to engage Bendix.

-Check engine again for signs of water in cylinders.

-I bought a compression gauge and hoses to check compression.

-While I have the starter off I am going to check all contacts between wires and lugs. Clean them well for reinstall.

-Also, while starter is removed I want to jack the engine over and "feel" for broken teeth on the flywheel. Trying to get a camera and lite so I can film it through the access where the starter goes so I can actually see the teeth on the flywheel.


I really could use some good advice on this and have seen that this is a good forum to get educated from.

BMCS

is it top mount or bottem mount starter what is the timing set at if it is a top mount starter you cant use a rebuit starter i went thru 5 then bought mercrusier starter it seems to be good now how fast does it crank when you turn it over

Who is rebuilding the starter? If its HARCO find another rebuilder. Sounds to me like that is your issue.

It is a bottom mount starter. Aft Port side. Real difficult to get to so would like to mitigate everyting I can short of pulling it. Not clear on what you are asking about top or bottom. Not familiar with top mounts. Cranks fine, but when it went the starter motor just spun very fast.

It is a local shop with a good rep. 3 failures???? I am pricing out an Merc OEM starter.

Black Baja, I had read one of your forum posts on a similar matter dating back to 2010 and found it promising. Glad you are still on Forum. RunninRagged and you both seem to lean toward a series of bad starter rebuilds. I know the rebuild shop turns them around in about 1.5 hours. I also know that when I pulled the starter off the engine while it was in the boat, the shop had not yet opened so I was passing a auto parts chain that tests alternators and starters. Took it in and they put it on their bench and it tested out fine. I kind of disregarded that in favor of what the rebuild shop later said, that it was bad. Figured the rebuild shop would know better than a kid at an auto parts store.

is the motor cranking slow and kicking back what broke on the starter did you check timing if its to far advanced at start up

Cranking fine it seems. It just aeems to go soon as i turkey. Before it engages bendix, starter motor races at full speed . No crank, ni backfire, nothing that would indicate imminent failure.

I can turn a wrench pretty good, but haven't checked timing in anything since my first car. 71 Pontiac Ventura

Ni kick back. In fact I have been listening for that but no sign of that at all. If it didn't start immediately, I would stop cranking, let it settle out again, then crank.

get a good gear reduction starter, I went thru three or four before getting a good one, check the grounds and batterys a dead cell will be good one minute and bad the next makes you think a starter goes.

Pls clarify gear reduction starter. Fully intend to check grounds and all connections. Bad cell? Would that cause starter motor to spun without engaging bendix? Are you implying that potentially the same "bad" starter could turn over engine with a good battery?

sounds like the bendix is blowing. starter runs full speed. same rebuilder is putting same bendix in every time. motor is hot after run back to dock and re-started. shouldn't be that much more load than after cooling off, but some. like everybody else is saying. get a tougher starter from somebody else. those gear reduction starters are sturdy, light, and are easier to fit past exhaust, etc to mount.

Gear Reduction Starter??? Can someone school me on that? I had priced a Mercruiser Starter but havent ordered it yet. I want to do the following before hand. But if there is a better starter that will not crap out on me while on the water, I want to know about it!!!!

For now I want to check the following:::::

-Make sure I have a full charge on batteries and test for bad cell

-Check for voltage drop

-Check voltage to starter to make sure it is getting enough to engage Bendix.

-Check engine again for signs of water in cylinders.

-I bought a compression gauge and hoses to check compression.

-While I have the starter off I am going to check all contacts between wires and lugs. Clean them well for reinstall.

-Also, while starter is removed I want to jack the engine over and "feel" for broken teeth on the flywheel. Trying to get a camera and lite so I can film it through the access where the starter goes so I can actually see the teeth on the flywheel

That was all good advice I got on this site. I appreciate all the advice but really want more on the Gear Reduction Starter.

Jeff.

A gear reduction starter has a planetary gear set in it that makes for a more powerful starter in a smaller package.
Nearly all late model vehicles now use them.
Did the starter shop tell you what was failing in the starters that went bad?
Have you checked the flywheel ring gear teeth for damage?
It is hard to see but you need to turn the motor with a pull handle while someone examines the teeth.
As a precaution be sure to pull the coil wire so it doesn't kick back on you and break your arm or worse.

Hey Cajun! Havent had the chance to do much with it. I had pulled the batteries and took them to have tested. One of them had a bad cell, the other was cranking with much lower CCA than rated. I put a charge on both of them, reinstalled them, jacked the engine over with a socket to see if there was any hydrolock which may have caused the last starter to fail, and to align the flywheel in case a tooth had sheared off the flywheel. (No, I haven't yet checked the flywheel, but it is on my to do list if I cant find another culprit. But at this point, I don't think that is the cause).

When I turned the key, the starter engaged. I quickly shut it off, hooked up the hose and started her up and ran her for several minutes, starting and stopping the engine several times. After running about 10 minutes, I shut her down and paused to let it wind down, turned the key half way, heard the fuel pump cycle and turned it the rest of the way and was met yet again with the shrill whine of the motor running without engaging the bendix and flywheel.

At the same time I check alternator output. I was getting 14.25 at the batteries according to the fluke meter.

Today, I bought new batteries. 810 CCA, and intend to install them tomorrow. I wont be able to float her tomorrow, but I want to see if the new batteries engage the bendix.

So what gives fellas??? I am leaning toward the ignition solenoid on top of the engine(with the red button). I was reading how I can jump it out with a 10 gauge wire to see if the solenoid on the starter cycles which would lead me to believe the ignition solenoid may be bad. Your thoughts??? I will let you know how that goes.

Also want to rig a jumper cable straight to the terminal on the starter and see what I get. Starting to wonder if it is something less than the starter. Curious to see what the new batteries do for her.

Pls provide your insight before I go any further.

By the way, I am an employee of Naval Sea Systems Command. While not assigned to the Washington Navy Yard, I was receiving the email alerts warning of the shooter on the grounds of the Navy Yard. Those alerts were being sent out from an Admiral that was in the yard at the time. My respect goes out to him in that he continued to do what he could while his own life was potentially in peril. I can only imagine the terror that my co-workers in D.C. were experiencing. May God go with all of them. Those that left us today and those that went home to their families.

You need to get good batteries in order to properly check it .
With the high pitched screeching noise I'm leaning towards a broken tooth on your flywheel.
A weak battery makes a rattling buzzing noise from the starter.
To check it I would spin the motor a quarter turn with a pull handle and bump the starter and see if it engages right now while it's acting up.
When a V8 shuts down it normally stops in one of four places thus causing most of the ring gear wear at those locations. you have a one in four chance of starting on the broken/damaged gear. ( sometimes starts, sometimes not)

My heart goes out to those that hurt tonight

Did you buy a new starter or have it rebuilt again by the same shop? Week batteries are not gonna brake the bendix. A solenoid could if it is staying engaged but you would definitely know if it does. Is the stater spinning and not engaging? If so it's not the engine mounted solenoid. If you like pm me and I'll give you my number. I think you might be over complicating things...

The newer cheap starter have a plastic throw out linkage. It is common for the solenoid to pull out of the plastic throw out linkage causing the symptoms you have. Get a starter with a robust throw out linkage if yours has the plastic. If you take the starter apart after a failure it is easy to see what happens to cause this.

Ok fellas, I found one of the batteries had a bad cell. Replaced them both. Cleaned all contacts between batteries and starter. Had alternator shop check for voltage drop across starter cable. Cleaned wire contacts to attached 12 volt solenoid on starter. Pulled starter and had it tested by same shop. They said it was bad(gear) and gave me another one.

Again, checked for any signs of moisture in cylinder. Had put new plugs in it recently and only had a couple hours on them but they are showing a little bit of what looks to be normal heat scorching of the porcelain around the plug electrode. It is my understanding that if I was getting moisture in the cylinder, the plugs would be steam cleaned.

I bought a $20 dollar compression test kit from Harbor Freight and checked compression on all cylinders. They all ranged between 112 and 120 psi which I know is low, but I am inclined to think it may be the cheapo test gauge giving me bad readings. I want to test it against my compressor regulator gauge and see if they are close but havent had the chance. .

The boat ran very well the other day after I did all that but I am very mindful of the fact that I had to replace the starter 3 times recently. I have heard a couple times that hydro lock causes starters to go, but not getting any indication. The boat pulled well when accelarating from a stop. Also, pulled well when cruising and I put it down. Hit WOT around 5000 RPM. Range is 4800 to 5200. Was running about 48 MPH.

Wanna confirm cylinder test procedure. Should engine be hot or cold? Also, I screwed the hose into the spark plug socket hand tight. Does that suffice? I allowed the engine to crank 3 times per cylinder check. Is that sufficient to build the necessary pressure to get a good reading? What should the cylinder pressure actually be? I had seen 150 to 175 in various forums but cant find anything "official" from Mercruiser. .

If the pressure is low across all 8 cylinders, which I need to confirm with another test gauge, what would cause it???

As alway, I appreciate your advice.

When the starter goes, do you hear a soft electric motor whine or a loud screeching like someone trying to restart their car. If it's the former, your rebuilder has a bad batch of Bendix's, if it's the later, you have a bad spot on your flywheel. I've had 13:1 race motors that would eat starters like snacks, had to go to a custom built with a special Bendix to get them to last. I'm currently running a 524 with 10:1 compression and my timing is locked at 34 degrees and the worst thing that happens is my starter will crank slow. I always turn the key first before I shoot it some gas to get the motor moving first.