Does eddy recommend any changes due to the new cam?

Not yet, we did discuss it and he will not be installing a cam as high lift as he would if I did not have silent choice. He still needs to look over what I dropped off and later we will discuss best outcome.

Is maintaining the captains choice mandatory for you or will you consider mufflers?
I'm curious because I want to be able to throw some power at my 502 but don't want the loud sound all the time. I have been exploring various options from external mufflers to internal mufflers. This would allow me to ditch the y pipe for easier access for repairs, I can run headers and a cam and still have reasonable noise levels. In my brick it seems like the wind makes conversation pretty useless at top speed anyway

I have diverters because I don't want it loud around the Marina or when I'm pulling up to someone to tie up. I can close the diverters during planning speed and we can talk but it is still a bit louder then with out thru hull. I also loose 3 to 4 mph when closed. I have external muffler tips but they don't reduce the noise much

So far how much internal water mufflers would restrict or reduce I don't know. Suggest contacting Eddie.

Looks like I'm going to buy yet another HP transom. Ordered one without the trim gauge and limit sender, missed it by one digit in the part number, but my mistake. It can be added to this one but all the parts have to be bought separately, and requires me to disassemble, drill and tap holes. So guess this one is going to ebay/craigs list

Sounds like I need the same motor lol

Good thing there are no luggage racks on a hurst
 

Dug into my transom after cleaning the holes out with a wire brush. The one on the bottom right started coming apart. Seeing the stain on gelcoat from what appears to have had water enter.

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps02aeddd9.jpg

Cut into the inside glass and found some rot. The moisture appears to only come close to the second bolt hole from the bottom. Will need to dig more to figure out what all needs to be replaced.

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps5a63852e.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps02697f41.jpg

Oh well you can't take it with you

That sucks

Thought the starboard side would be the worst but turns out it's the port is. Dug all the way until was hitting some solid wood. Port side is at the stringer and it had a little bit of water in the bottom. There is a gap between the bottom glass and wood so guess that's why I found a bit of water. From what I can see it looks pretty solid. There is I think 3-layers of plywood which were screwed together and then glassed.

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps9302a5cf.jpg

Port side
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps5acb1d7e.jpg

Starboard side
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...psf4524948.jpg

The death of almost every transom starts at that little hole they drill for the drain plug.Anytime I see someone posting that they spun their coupler I know most likely the cause of it is because the lower part of the transom is wet and delaminating and flexing.
Doesn't take much flex to start the cycle. Big heavy single engine boats are much more prone to it even if the transom is not fully rotted because of the added stress put on them

Have to agree with you on that one. I installed two extra anodes to stop corrosion, which it did do that. Those two little holes since I didn't seal them up correctly sure helped with the rot. Then add the leak around the bottom bolt and he we go.

Trying decide the best way to repair the transom, haven't done much in this line of work. Helped replace the whole transom on a old house boat, but that was about it. Since the port side is up next to the stringer I'm thinking about cutting some of the glass away from the very back. Give me enough room to put some layers of new plywood in layers then glass over. Could also do it on the other side, should make it stronger, but as before I haven't dome much of this type of work

Not a huge fan of partial transom replacements but if they are done correctly and with Epoxy I believe they are more than sufficient.

I think cutting the plywood back to the stringers like you are doing is the ticket . I would than grind about 6 inches back into the glass from where the plywood is going to be replaced and also 6 inches back on the stingers and the bottom of the boat and also aggressively grind the area where the new plywood will be adhered to.

When I replaced transoms and cut my new plywood I would cut off the bottom of the Vee of that area where the drain plug goes through and than just meticulously lay up that small area with extra glass after the plywood was in. Now you have a solid fiberglass area that the drain plug runs through so no need to ever worry about the plywood soaking up water again. I feel in a boat like this that spends most of it's time in a slip with a couple inches of water that never seem to get out of the bilge that this is a nice preventive measure.

Template for your plywood and stagger the joints but towards the top not the bottom and laminate these together out of the boat with thickened epoxy and possibly a layer of 17 biaxe if you want to go crazy. Make sure you presoak the ply with resin and let it kick before you do the laminating and clamping of the 2 pieces but go easy on your clamping pressure so you don't squeeze everything out.

Let them dry overnight.

Again precoat the inner transom area and the plywood piece that you are setting and after it goes off mix up some thickened epoxy and set the plywood and clamp and bolt it in .after it is positioned and clamped fill any voids where the ply meets the old transom with more thickened epoxy.
Next day check your work for goobers that need to be knocked down if not proceed to laminate the inner portion with 3 layers of 17 ox biax laid in epoxy. . Cut your cloth so it comes back 5 inches onto the boats bottom and the stringers and also the old transom area.

I usually save the little cutout area where the drain plug goes for last and diligently work that.

I know Glass Dave is the resident guy but figured I would save him a lot of typing and I am bored. I know you have experience already doing a transom ,thought I would just give you my point of view. If Dave has any other pointers or feels there is a better way I would listen to him he has far more experience.

A little thing that always bothers me on boats is they mount the bilge pump on a pad so you are always stuck with 2 inches of water in the bilge. So If I was redoing a bilje or transom what I would do is this.

I position a new pump pad forward of the engine where it is accessible .. Than I measure from a couple inches back from my pump pad to about 4 inches in front of the drain plug . Than i take a scrap of divinycell and laminate it on both sides out of the boat. Now cut this piece after it has cured to the front to back dimensions you have and out about 6 to 8 inches.Cut and fit this piece so now you have a raised section that is an inch or 2 above your pump pad. So now you are left with a little sump area for your pump.

Laminate the piece in after grinding the bilge area back a few inches and also laminate the ends to seal it tight.

Now the most water you will ever have in your bilge is a cup full back by the drain and a half cup in the pump sump area.

Sure appreciate the write up Tommy, going to have to re-read it several times to try to understand all you put in. I was told Formula uses ASME 5000 resin and haven't heard of 17 biaxe, 17 ox biax or divinycell. Sure I can find them with google.

Like the idea of building the pad to reduce water but there is a tube which has holes in it about a foot up from the drain plug. The holes one on each side of the center drain pipe which is under the glass has always had a bit of water in them. There is three ribs crossways in the area and I think they help get the water to the plug. Go figure, water goes to the plug for draining but boat doesn't come out very often.

See if I can find some kind of saw which I can use to get a clean cut. As for behind the stringers, this will be an issue, may have to use a drill and little by little dig it out. I drilled into the bottom of the stringers down low and back, and the wood came out blond and appears very dry. Have a moisture meter coming to do some further checks. Another mentioned that if I cut into the glass on the back of the stringers it will be more difficult to get the but joint right. I'm unable to get to the other side of the stringers due to they are sealed up by boxing it the other side

I'd hate to do it but if all else doesn't seem to work out, I guess I can cut through the back going in and then re-glass and gel-coat. Really don't want to do that

Oh forgot, All the grinding you mentioned, was that just to ruff it up?

The drain plug is just glassed and gel-coat, there is no wood behind it

this is not a friend of a friend story, it is a guy i know that works at a machine shop and several years ago (1989) he took his 27 wellcraft cabin cruiser aft deck and put a blower on his small block. he never really gave an answer on speed but i would venture to say 60 mph.
the most bang for your buck would be a whipple super charger. it is a side mounted one for 454 and 502 fuel injection.
take it from someone who in 1997 tried everything they could do to get some decent horsepower from that efi system in a heavy boat, for a single engine. after i put a blower on it. it was a completely different boat. put a blower/ supercharger on it. the cost would be close to the same as doing the heads cam etc. and you would probably get double the added horsepower. meaning if you got a 100 hp out of a cam and heads you will get 150 -200 hp out of a whipple super charger.
personally i would try a bravo 3 knowing it may grenade if you abuse it.

Thanks for the input hullofjustis, appreciate it. Don't have the room for a blower and even a whipple would cause some more space issues. Have to stand on my head to change the impeller. Have turned the engine over to Eddie


More glass questions.
Figuring I need to get behind the stringers I have thought of this. In the pic below I marked were the main stringers are. To each side of it I can cut through the hull and get at the wood. Do you think this may be a good plan? Pros Cons ??

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps0ac1867b.jpg

For the ease of it i would not cut it out any further than where the transom wood meets the stringers.. In all reality all the stress is transferred from the transom area between the stringers directly to the stringers and the bottom of the hull .Any area of the transom outside to right or left of the stringers is more or less there to keep the water out.

I assume the rot on the transom does not seem very severe as you get close to the stringers and you feel the remaining wood could simply be filled with some thickened epoxy and laminated over.

Yes do it with 36 grit though so it has some real teeth but clean and wipe the area down real well 1st so you don.t contaminate the area and grind oil into the old laminate.

Maybe Dave will pop in here but what I would do the transom is go out 5 inches from where your new plywood is going and grind that glass down to the old transom plywood so when you re laminate with glass you have a nice scarf without building your thickness up to much and this will attach the new ply to the old ply incase the old ply has a delaminating issue

Looked at your pics with some magnification . How is the transom wood where it gets close to the stringers?

The rot on the starboard side I think is fine, but the port side may take a bit more looking into. I can still see some black in there. Could get a multi tool or use a drill to see if I can get behind the stringer. Guess I don't need a smooth joint where the new wood will meet the old behind the stringer. Fill with some epoxy when putting it together?

No cutting into the outer skin creates a whole lot of work . You will be fine with the inner repair.

West system Epoxy is all I would use for the reapair the bonding is 2nd to none . If it was a full transom replacement I would use traditional resin but you can use any additional strength you can get in a partial replacement .

Biaxial cloth is what you will be using. As far as Resin I thing 2 gallons should be plenty for the small area you are working ,

Oh boy
 

Just cut about another inch above on both port and starboard sides with my 18V skill saw. Pried the wood off and sure enough it's black behind is also. I'm now half way up to about the top of the stringers. Getting that sinking feeling that a partial replacement is not going to work. I could cut out clear to the top and replace it from the stringers in, not sure that would work either. Thinking there could still be black on either side. Going to sleep on it and think about what it would take to get the whole thing out. :readinghelp:

Don't even think about cutting through the outer skin to replace the transom plywood.

Agree, not going to do that.
Was having some real issues thinking about all the work, but I also have all winter, (burr) recon I can get it done. The wood is 2 inches think and real solid. The rot is showing on the back side layer only against the outer skin. Just a thin layer but means it is delaminating from the hull. Need to get a multitool so I can have an easier time cutting some of this out. While I haven't done much fiber glass work before, I'll be looking to you guys to steer me along. Going to take a trip today to go find some more tools.

AD, sounds like Tommy has a pretty good handle on how to do this, but I would still post a separate thread on the paint and fiberglass forum to maybe get some additional input from Dave and some of the guys who frequent that board. From the looks of things you might sleep better at night to just bite the bullet and replace the whole transom. Hopefully the rot stopped short of your stringers. It amazes me that even high end builders like Formula frequently neglect the simple step of glassing in the cutout for the transom assembly. I frequently see this step neglected for other openings like exhaust tips. All you really need to do is get a couple of good layers of resin over the wood in these openings to keep the transom from rotting out if you develop a leak in these areas. It looks like your transom assy seal was probably leaking. You might check the area around the screws for the trim tabs too. A lot of times they just run screws into these areas without enough silicone. Actually, the best way to handle thru bolts and thru hull fittings is to drill the hole out oversize, fill the hole with epoxy or resin and let it cure, and then drill the proper diameter hole for the fastener. That prevents any leaking water from getting to the wood core. It's unfortunate that most production builders don't want to take these steps because their goal is to get the boats off the factory floor and into the dealers' showrooms.

Good luck with the project. Since you will already be elbows deep in fiberglass, might as well check other areas of the boat that could be prone to rot. Gas tank, cabin floor, etc. - anywhere that screws can be run and exposed to water.

A friend of mine that is a boat builder used to work for a couple large dealers when dealers used to install the engine and drive combo. The builders never specified to seal around any of the transom hardware except the use of the gimble seal. They also didn't seal around deck hardware. Since moving to building his own boats he takes the time to prevent water issues (Hydrostream, Jcraft ski, Talons, and Tuff's) the boats last forever

Your probably right about starting another thread, sound like a good idea. I need all the help I can get doing this. To late tonight but picked up some more tools today so I'll give it a go tomorrow.

actually yeah might be good to start a transom specific thread in the FG&P section. I hate to say it but i keep forgetting we have other tech sections that have glass work in them lol. Fiberglass section, restoration section and do it yourself section . . . . . . i just gotta get out more often lol

After cutting into a formula stringer and bulkhead this week I think there build techniques absolutely blow.

glassdave glad to see you here. Tommy says your the dude but he has been very helpful. Have started the thread in the fiber glass section

Received the HP transom Assembly with sender the other day. Has the trim limt and gauge sender all in one unit mounted to the one side on the bell housing.
Came in with a broken anode so will replace that when the new part arrives.

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps4c818248.jpg

How much did the t/a run ya?

Chris

W/ sender 2350 w/ shipping
One w/o sender 2160 w/ shipping, currently selling this one on craigs list for 1900

The anode came in today and the cable was cut in two. Could not get a response from Costal Marine Export as to why. My guess (and this is only a guess) is the anode was removed from another drive instead of the item being new part. Who ever did it decided to cut the cable instead of removing the connector from the pins. So I need to feed it in the assembly, solder connection's and seal the connections up. I just don't understand what CME actually is. Prices are great and not trying to slam just don't understand

[IMG]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps98976fa5.jpg[/IMG]

So how is someone suppose to respond to chit like that. What a dumb ass but at least he put the part he cut off in the box... Unbelievable ...

Chris

here is a thread from here on OSO inquiring about CME

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/b...-beach-fl.html

Sounds like they should make good on it.

I may have a stock 502 MPI cam available soon.

Excellent ideas, I wish some of the manufacturers would do things like this

Spent a couple hours with Eddie yesterday discussing my engine and seeing all the major HP he is currently working on, and there is some serious HP in the building. Plan is to bore and basically replace all moving parts except valves and crank. Good thing I replaced the valves some years back with Inconel or they would probably go as well. Going to cut down the runners on the intake, open up No 7 injector, do custom fuel rail work, change to cool fuel, and change over to a MEFI-3 ECM. Compression will be held down a bit so I can run 89 octane instead of 93 so this impacts the amount of HP produced. Would sure like to keep my silent choice but I need to get the risers up another 3 inches, and EMI doesn't make +3 risers to work with silent choice. So just bought +3 risers and will remove my Y-pipe. If it turns out it bothers me to much with my Corsa mufflers, may look into others later.

AllDodge, are you going to dyno this engine before dropping it in the boat?