Dodge do you have a b1 outdrive you can bolt on and try?

Chris

Yes, it's on my Rinker but don't remember what ratio it is. Highest pitch prop is a 21, so I would guess it would need to be a 1.8 or 1.6 to even be able to use it

Your Rinker's Bravo I ratio should be 1.50:1.

Sweet! Never seen one of these before.

They do a nice job, and its solid stainless steal

Do you have the dyno sheet you can post? Sorry if that was addressed earlier in this thread. I still believe a set of worked 3 x 3's would be the fastest props. You also want them to be where you can turn the engine as many RPM as you can under the rev limiter at WOT and not be well beyond where HP is falling off. In most cases, RPM = speed. So let's say Eddie says your new target WOT RPM is 5,200. If you turning a set of 3 x 3's at 5,200 RPM is netting you no additional speed, then I too question what is happening here. That extra 120 HP should not be just pi$$ing away in prop slip. You're not going to see the gains other boats would at an extra 120 HP but I would have fully expected somewhere in the 2 - 4 MPH range.

I'll post it up tomorrow. The 3x3 24's I was running with a bad running 415HP original motor did 5200 at 4600 rpm. While I didn't try it, I'm pretty sure the new motor will over rev if for any other reason its running better. That said the original motor could have been running fine at WOT and only ran below level below WOT, don't know will not guess.

I did notice the dyno sheet shows Wisconsin and my oil pressure stays at 80 psi. Asked the builder if this was correct and do I need to get a higher oil pressure gauge. Response was not reassuring and gave me pause if there was an issue. Hooked the motor up, and cold it goes above 30 at idle, and does not go above 50 no matter what, stays mostly below 50. My guess is the oil pressure gauge was shorted to stay at 80.

Here are some pics of the dyno sheets. They were run with dyno headers with all accessories except the p/s pump. I didn't want to have to plumb the p/s just for the dyno. So, those 2 items will cost a little power. I would say in the 20-25 hp range. So that makes it around 515-520 hp. We were only shooting for 500 hp, but a little extra never hurts. Bob was aware of the use of dyno headers and the lack of the p/s pump.
From what I understand, the 502 Mags make right around 425 hp. I've never had the chance to dyno a bone stock one, so I'm going on hearsay. They are all set up on the rich side as Mercury has no idea of where that engine is going or how it will be ran. That is taken into consideration with their numbers.
As it sits, there is no reason under the sun that the engine won't make 500 hp. It's a 509, 9.3:1, a pretty decent size cam, with some mild porting of both the heads and the intake. It should have no problem making 1 hp per cu in. This was never about an all out hp build. It was approached as a freshen up with a few well placed mods to mainly increase the torque, as it's a very heavy boat.

The dyno is a Stutska that is made in Wisconsin. That is why it says WI. on the top of the page under Stutska. While it's not my dyno, I have no reason in the world to doubt it's accuracy. We check the calibration with weights on a regular basis. I have no problem at all with it being put on another dyno. I'm confident in what we built.

Here are the dyno sheets for those that are interested. I'm not sure where the 80# comment came from. As you can see, the oil pressure goes up the entire pull. It's a little high because the oil is still pretty cold.

I take it very personally when a customer doubts our work or me. I'm hate that a customer is not 100% happy with what we delivered. I'm completely confident in the power that it makes, even though it doesn't show in much of a speed increase. It's pulling 2 more inches of prop to a higher rpm than the smaller props. I'm really not sure why that's not translating into speed. It gets on plane faster with the larger props than it did with the smaller ones, so it's obviously making more torque/power.

Bob, if there is something else or something more that you expected from us, then please contact me and I will do my best to accommodate it. I want everyone to be as satisfied as possible with their purchase. I'm only a phone call away. You can reach me anytime. If you would like some assistance is setting up the boat/drive height/ prop combo/whatever, I would be more than happy to help in any way that I can.
Eddie

I truly believe the hull is not lifting or planing here a hull that long and heavy is a incredible drag he actually spoke a bit on eailer saying the boat porpsied a bit indicating it was coming up and then fell off. Yes bottom paint can do that...i know many cry BS but just as many have seen nice increases with the removal of the paint or a refinish.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...aint-slow.html

I too believe it is a setup/hull/prop issue. I wanted to see the dyno sheets to gauge what RPM he should be shooting for at WOT. Not to question the builder. I sent a buddy of mine to Eddie to get the blower engine in his 26 AO sorted out (ended up building a new blown 540). The end product has been flawless for a couple seasons now. Just can't keep drives alive behind it!

The 80 came from a question asking would I need to get another oil gauge since the print out showed min at 90. Your email back was (paraphrase) the oil was cold and will come down a bit. The engine has never gone higher then 50 so my thought is the gauge was pegged somehow. Not complaining about 50, it is more then enough

If anything the hull is lifting to much. Had it out yesterday and getting ready to go back out today. On plain if I bring the tabs down at all it starts to porpoise. When extra friends are on board not so much. I use to be able to have the spray about amidships, now its more toward bow, boat probably is 200lb lighter in the stern, and another 100 under fuel tank at most.

Again, boat has always had bottom paint, so I don't see how pant can effect current issues.

There must be a compatibility issue with the sender and the gauge. I don't recall if we changed the sender or not. i can look though. That pressure measurement taken on the dyno was with a mechanical gauge in the oil filter. It will be slightly lower in the engine, but by only 5-10 psi. We run an Oberg washable filter on the dyno where we measure oil temp and pressure.
Eddie

4 blades are stern lifting props, hence the bow down running attitude compared to 3 blades that are bow lifting. I believe you never were able to talk to Brett at BBlades about your setup? My guess is he would have suggested a set of 3 x 3's that he would do something similar that he does with straight bottom Baja's. Just guessing here. Being it is a heavy single engine cruiser that might not work like I think it would . You may just not have enough of a lever at the back of that "brick" as you call it with a single.

I use to be able to have the spray about amidships, now its more toward bow, boat probably is 200lb lighter in the stern, and another 100 under fuel tank at most.

There is the riddle and where you HP went...... with lower hp your running less wetted surface........ with the increase now your plowing.....is that right. Perhaps that hook is more of a problem than seems apparent having to tab down to control porpsing on that boat is...well WTF???

Agree I never talked to Brett, another guy there which said I should try the 4x4, never mentioned 3x3's. I mentioned the 4x3 and he restated the 4x4

You might have something there, really need to pull the boat and put the runabout in, water is getting low, but the weather and water is so nice. When pulled I'll break out the straight edge and camera

I would strap that B1 drive on it. Bury the tabs to get on plane then pull up tabs and trim up. I tried a 4 blade on a similar but smaller boat with an alpha drive and it DID NOT LIKE the 4 blade. Best prop for it was a Big Ear 3 blade. I think the combo of the 4 blade props and B3 are whats robbing you. You should have gained 5 mph min with that power and you are loosing 3 mph or so with the 4 blades and maybe a couple with the B3. I think there is 7mph hiding somewhere. I can tell you whatever power Eddie says its making then thats whats its making.

Chris

Don't really think I can get even on plain with a 1:50 drive, well maybe with a 21 pitch prop. Remember I bought a 1:65 B3 drive and the 24 pitch props would not even get me out of the water. The 22 pitch did get me up but only managed around 4K rpms (just from memory, its posted in this thread). So a 1:50 drive and a 21, I just don't think it would even come up. Willing to try, but just don't see how a B1 can do it.

After seeing and riding in that boat, I don't think a B1 is the answer. I think you would have a hard time keeping it living. The only shot you would have would be to run a big eared B2 prop. I still don't it would work. But that's just my opinion.
Eddie

it s winter again and you spent a ton on it with no improvements.

Time for a ASD-8

What's an ASD-8 ?

ASD-8 ;)
http://www.arneson-industries.com/pr...ation/asd8.jpg

Did you go over what your goals were performance-wise? If top end is you main goal, then 3 x 3's on that hull should be the fastest props. You need to find a set, 4 blade or 3 blade, that you can turn 5,200 RPM at WOT. I'd still be interested in seeing what a set of 4 x 3 XR's, properly pitched, would do on your boat.

Here come the Rooster!!

there was a guy that posted here with a fountain cruiser with big power and arnesons, I think he was hitting low 8's with a mother of a rooster. Personally I'd love to see these on my boat

I agree with the 4x4s causing bow down attitude. I tried a set on my boat, could not free up the bow even at full trim. Went back to the 3x3s so I could get the bow up.

I'd think some work on the 3x3 props would help - it doesn't sound like you have a problem planing with them, so work them to get what you want.

If that doesn't work, it might be the hull design. Mine has wedges on the outboard strakes, and no matter how much power you put in my hull, it tops out around 65. Guys have tried big power - 700 hp in a 4500# 25' hull. THey see just over 70.

Yours might be the same, w/o significant hull mods, you may be topped out.

That was Sutphen30 on here. He built the engines and installed & rigged the drives. Last I heard, the beast was for sale. Owner had bought a Outerlimits.

Those wedges are also on the 290 PQ's. There was a guy from Canada that ran the Shootout years ago that had stupid big power (I want to say 800 - 900 HP/side) n a 290 and was only running around 90 MPH. Boat should have been way faster.

IIRC, that was a Formula. And it was pretty cool.

Now that would be cool, don't have room for a trans, dang it

Goal was to get out of the hole faster, was not looking for top end. That said, adding 100HP there should have been something. I do come up on plane faster but what helps in this area more is the 4x4, the 3x3 (26) would top out at 5050. Figuring the 24 pitch original props were turning 5200 with original engine, it should over rev with this one.

Was having similar trim issue using the 3x3's. Cannot say it was exact because was looking at that area but not as close. Since rebuild have never been able to trim as before, but also say my gauge doesn't work anymore. Using just from feel and use to hold the trim up button a bit longer after planning prior

Pulled the boat out today and winterized.
Here you see a straight edge with the transom and it's right where it should be from my point of view

http://forums.iboats.com/filedata/fe...9373&type=full

Here is the hook, first I thought it went across the hull but the only hook is just on the outer 12 inches of the hull and just in front of the tabs, did notice a new discoloration, hope its not a crack, but will get into it later

http://forums.iboats.com/filedata/fe...9501&type=full

http://forums.iboats.com/filedata/fe...9609&type=full

Since your exhaust locations were off center any chance the outdrive is cockeyed? Your hull looks rough. What is all that
flaking stuff? Yes that looks like a crack. I was really cheering for you to get a big gain in top speed. All the work you did last
year and be kind of where you started sure sucks donkey!!

Flaky hull not helping, yes, unfortunately that looks like a crack and it looks like your tabs may be dragging, They should be angled up a bit when fully raised. There is a simple fix for that without relocating anything.

Don't see the drive being cocked, the holes are the same as original. It might be a crack, will get further into it later.

The flaky stuff is paint that is flaking off because I did spot sanding and quick coat of paint. Plan to do a complete redo on the bottom for next season. Had it redone by a dealer three years ago and they did a bad job, ever since I've had trouble with it. Going to take if off the trailer and really get to the bottom.

The tabs are above the bottom of the hull about 1/4 inch. The tabs are a bit above flat just doesn't look like it from the pic.

Looking at that paint, that could change the performance of the hull quite a bit. If the flaking is twice as bad as it was before, I could see the extra HP going into fighting the drag from flaking. IMO, you are going to have to fix that before you'll know what the new combo will do.

It was doing some of the same for past few years, not as bad as this time but some. Just don't see removing 300 pounds (probably more with the rebuild) and add over 100hp and gain nothing on top end. All of this being taken away by some extra paint flaking

On my 22 foot bowrider, I will lose an easy 4 mph throughout the course of the season just from the bottom being scummed up, I could see the condition of that bottom costing you a significant amount of speed.

Agree with growth, but I have ablative paint and any growth that would happen to be on the hull is worn away every time the boat starts moving. Even though you all may be right, the before and after is basically the same when it comes to the hull.

The only thing that makes some since to me is the trim angle. I use to be able to get the bow higher and the stern was deeper, now it all comes up and trim is less. Bow is still up just not as high. Remember I even removed all the anchor and chain and gained almost 1mph using the 26 pitch 3x3

Edit: I got into the crack and it appears to be a hair line into the Gelcoat but only about 2 inches, will need to dig in further later

Dodge as I mentioned I redid my hull before this season and it made zero difference in speed, but now that I see yours I can say that mine was much smoother to start with. I had the bottom soda blasted then sanded with 80 then painted with Interlux VC Performance Epoxy with Teflon. Its not rated for in water boats and makes no claims of being an anti fouling paint but man my hull was by far the cleanest in our marina at the end of the summer. My boat stayed in the fresh water lake all summer and my dock neighbor had 1/4 of scum and I barely had any, I did a quick spray with a cleaner and pressure washed it off, no scrubbing. Not sure where you boat but it might be worth doing this instead of reapplying bottom paint. I couldnt be happier with mine