Wow. Poor guy. I'd have any sort of transmission strictly on switches I could control. But 6 is a bit much to handle. I've often thought you could run a manual valve body turboglide with no TC in a boat, not sure if that's been tried.

The big issue with diesels in fast boats is a low "turn down ratio". The ratio of the max speed vs the idle speed. Gas engines are almost double that of a diesel since the idle speed isn't much higher but the max rpm is much higher. I think that's part of why roots and screw blowers are also great in boats, you can run a milder cam to idle well and then run higher engine speeds due to the blower keeping it breathing.

The need for multi speed transmissions and heavy engines are detriment to Diesel engines in planing hills that are very sensitive to weight.

The economy and on the water fuel price can't be beat though, if you're budget minded.

I know what he was after with the 6spd. Trying to get a 12k lb single engine straight bottom boat to run 60's with a diesel isn't your common build. But his other boat is a big 100mph + single turbine cat he built long before those ever became popular. Just ask Rik on here about him, Dave has been doing crazy boat rigging chit for a long time. But he recently decided that fishing might be a more relaxing hobby... lol

When I first talked to him the 6spd setup was all ready in the boat. I would have never went with that funky no converter Allison deal. But the CA boys talked him into it before we met. Best the boat ever ran was when you locked it in 4th gear all the time. I'm sure it can be tamed, but from 3000 miles away all I could do is read data logs and give advice. And his logs were often very nasty looking. Like he was driving some 800hp truck with bald tires on a icy road. TCM would think the boat was running 120mph, then drop off to 40 soon as that big 18" prop hooked up. When it was actually allowed to shift into 5/6 overdrive, it would cut power or throw limp mode to the engine due to clutch slippage. He even put a torque converter back into the mix on this last build.. Not worth all the hassle, that was our final conclusion about the marinized Allison transmission.

On a side note, he recently donated a spare engine for testing of monotherm pistons in the Dmax. So hopefully all his time, effort, and $ invested will lead to a good outcome for everyone else. These engines are still lighter and will spin more R's than about any other diesel out there. And while many have pushed them well into the 1500hp plus range, that's for like 3 - 8 seconds at a time. Big difference between drag racing and life in a boat.

It's a shame the Dmax's didn't work out for him. Hopefully something good will come out of the monotherm effort. Mine will be hooked to a Konrad drive on a 9-10000# boat and hope for a 30 mph cruise at about 2800r. Will need to run contentious for 1-3 hours at the time at this speed, stock.
Thanks for the info

Your welcome. And I hope some of this info helps with your build. As long as there is sufficient cooling, especially of air and oil, it should run happily at 2800r all day long.

Hi,

Great thread and more or less a complete "how to" for a marinisation but after the TPS was descriped i was hoping the thread would get "back on track" and get more into the how to on the electrical side of things like ECM and harness etc:-)

That being said, i see a new cool project are keeping you busy:-) that will be a bad ass build with 900+.

rgds Allan

Tks Allen. Have a couple more engine builds underway at different stages right now. One has a stock truck harness that was previously used in a boat, while the 900's are getting custom wired from sensors to ECM. So I'll be back on track with updates this next week. :drink:

Marine Diesel in Sweden offers a marinized package that is certified using the Duramax 6.6L.
They offer 12V and 24V. I have the 24V version, but unless you are driving a big boat with lots of other 24V requirements, I would stick to 12V.
I like the fact that their alternators are 145amps so you can drive a bank of 220AH batteries and use mastervolt Sine Ultra inverters for your 110VAC / 220VAC systems to drive airconditioning and other household paraphernalia.
They have a U.S. Agent as well.
They are very quiet engines but I would suggest looking at their raw water cooling system ... i.e. either the possibility of draining them or running fresh water through it.
They are great engines!

Welcome to the forum. Please share some details on your boat setup? What type of drive ya running?

this is the US site https://www.performancediesel.com/pr...marine-diesel/

Hey Wobble, nice looking package, please explain about the cooling system. What boat is it in?
Thanks

Wiring 101
 

Ok kiddies, as promised, it's time to do some wiring.

Just so happens I acquired an OEM truck harness that's previously been converted to a "stand alone" harness for a boat. Since this one is close to straight out of a truck, seems like a good place to start.

Our donor vehicle was a 2009 LMM (engine code "6") which debuted mid year 2007, and ended production with the switch to the LML model in 2011. This harness is very similar to the popular LBZ (2006-2007), which was last model produced before adding DPF and other required emissions hardware.

LBZ harness has been the go to setup for many engine swaps, and only used for a year and a half, it's getting harder to find em. So I prefer the LMM for a few reasons we'll get into later. Just keep in mind the LBZ (E35A) and LMM (E35B) ECM's look identical. Only difference is internal software and identification sticker on the front. So you can get away with mix and matching MOST of the related wiring...

For ease of following along, we'll use the free and easily downloadable PDF file: Electrical Manual – 2009 light Duty Full Size C/K Trucks

Because this new forum layout doesn't use same inline image placing as previous, I'm gonna break these posts up a bit until I figure it out better.

First thing we need to do is identify all the important parts of the engine and chassis harness. Most likely you'll be be starting with a factory wired engine, and everything else stripped from a truck. So lets look at the main engine harness connectors. All LB7-LML models have two main engine harness connectors on top the drivers side valve cover. These two plugs contain about 90% of the main engine wiring. Couple things like alternator control and oil level sensor are not in these connectors. But pretty much everything important connects here.

It should also be noted that these connectors changed with every new engine model. So you can't use a LMM engine harness with a LLY truck harness. Not even the LBZ / LMM which are identical internals, share same engine harness connectors. The models years can easily be identified by color and shape differences. But hey at least ya can't mess up, cause they won't connect. Just an FYI when your digging up harness parts...

If you're like me with everything spread out on the shop floor, you should have two large piles of wire now. One harness pulled off the engine, other harness with the ECM, TCM, fuse box, and throttle pedal wiring.

Now lets identify all the important modules. On the engine side the only thing of interest is the going to be the Glow Plug Control Module. It's also mounted on the drivers side valve cover near the rear of the engine. Since this harness is off the engine at the moment, I removed the main heavy duty power supply wire that connects to the high amperage breakers. But it's labeled in a pic below.

Running glow plugs or the control module is not a requirement on any year Duramax. They will normally start and run fine without it, long as it's above like 30F. Which pretty much covers the majority of boating situations.. But for anyone rigging an icebreaker, or wants a quicker start up in chilly weather, leave it in tact and you'll be fine.

The only other things you need to know about the GPM, it's controlled by serial data from the ECM. On the LMM and newer, the injector flow rate calibration figures are stored in the GPM along with ECM. So if you change any injectors, you'll need to update it and the ECM with a Tech2 to make everything happy and not set a code.

Over on the chassis harness, we have all the other important modules. Depending on year, the ECM will have 2 or 3 connectors. Since we are focusing on the LBZ/LMM model, there is only two. X-1 [96 pin] and X-2 [58 pin]. Pinouts listed in section C-11 or page 151 of the wiring document listed above.

Right beside the ECM plugs is the large TCM connector. I am going to strip it out of this harness since not running an Allison transmission. After helping out on a Duramax boat with an Allison setup, I can safely say it's not worth the trouble. The designers never planned for it to be used in a boat, and it shows.. PPE did one with it in front of a bravo XR setup, which sure sounds cool being it offers two overdrive gears. But even on an ASD8 drive, it became a total PITA. Was great for docking however.. lol

OK Kid if you can get me some photos of the modified ASD8 that would be great.
You will probably remember I cant fit a quick change box on the back of my gearboxes due to lack of room, ideally a 6" external drop unit similar to the SCS would be ideal as theirs is a 14" drop.
It would be great to be able to pop the cover off and change gears sets to suit various condition, props and power levels.

Can do Jay.
I'm heading out shortly to go Dyno a new Duramax build. It's getting coupled to a HamiltonJet pump. Should be a pretty interesting build, but HJ needs an exact torque curve map to build the screw. So I'll email my friend for some new pics while on the road.

I believe Bor may have some recent pictures of that ASD8 drop box assembly also, he's been chatting with the owner about buying it. I can vouch for the reliability of that drop mod, since it's outlasted everything in front of it making up to 1800lb ft of torque so far... Gearing is 1:1 ratio also.

Spent yesterday dyno testing an engine we just finished for a customers jet boat build. Since it's the conclusion of everything covered in this thread, I was planning to hold off and post video near the end. But,It performed so nicely I wanted to share it.

This engine is an LBZ/LMM based platform with Mahle cast race pistons, upgraded oiling, and aftermarket valve springs mods. Fueling it stock CP3 with +%50 injector tips. Turbo is GT4094R fed by our own built in house water cooled exhaust. Basically identical build to my old Warlock setup.

Customer requested it make 500hp with a 3200-3600 redline. First pull it did 604hp and 1100lbft torque. It took several adjustments, but we finally got it turned down to 540hp / 1019lbft torque, with max EGT's in the low 1300F fully loaded.

Final run video:

Couple of data logs from Fridays runs. 542hp/1019ft-lb, and a earlier 560hp pull.

Then back to your regularly scheduled programing. :cool-smiley-011:

Next module on our GM harness is the Accelerator Pedal Positions (APP) sensor. Also called APPS.

The APP sensor is mounted on the firewall under the dash. Attached to that big pedal ya push to go faster... The APP connector is not actually part of the chassis harness. The six wires from the APP sensor connect to the ECM via the X109 connector near the fuse block and shown below.

The APP sensor pictured below has been fitted with a lengthened arm to work with a cable connection from typical helm control. Two important things to note about the APP are: The sweep range of an OEM APP is much shorter than a standard throttle body or carb setup that most helm controls are built for. So you'll need to do some mock up testing before final assembly to insure full range of lever travel at the helm. Second thing to note, the OEM APP has a built in return spring, which may need to be removed for marine use. From my experience, the spring is just strong enough to be annoying. Sometimes it's fine, until you hit some waves and it starts backing down the throttle automatically for ya.

As posted several pages back, there is now an electronic Livorsi throttle option with built in GM calibrated APP sensor. Allowing you to ditch the cable and run the six APP connector wires directly to the helm. I have the throttle part numbers, and make a little adapter cable if you need plug and play ease of install. Either style setup will work fine, just take time to verify throttle slope and lever travel before bolting the APP sensor and cable mounts down solid.

Now that we've covered the important modules on the harness, we can move onto the power, grounds, and required relays to make everything run happily in a boat. I was going to use the example harness with fuse block above, then found out why it's easier to scrap the OEM fuse block. They are prone to connector corrosion issues, and that one had developed some since pulled from last build. So it's cut out now...

Rather than explain pinout wire by wire with poor quality photos, I found a great 4 part engine swap YouTube video that someone put together several years ago. This series explains it all exactly as I was planning, but faster and with options to pause and rewind. So I'll pick up where he is cutting the unused wires from his harness.

Thanks Carl.. :drink:

Hope everyone enjoyed Carl's video breakdown on the LMM stand alone harness mod. Actually he only recorded 3 parts, but that much covered everything ya need to start cutting tape and wires. Mostly tape, and chop a few wires to separate everything unneeded from our ECM donor harness. So here is the short and sweet.

First we ditch the factory fuse block, then remove the TCM plug and transmission harness. What should be left is a very short chassis harness that only requires a few new connections to make an engine run again. In the pictures below I started by isolating the point where ECM harness meets the TCM harness. Carefully cut and remove the tape in this area to expose all the TCM harness wires. Pull the TCM connector and transmission harness to one side and isolate the dozen or so wires from it going to the main ECM harness.

You should see 1 red/white, 1 pink, a twisted pair with tan & tan/black, and maybe 3 or 4 other wires linking the transmission harness to the ECM harness. Cut them all,, on the TCM side, using slightly different lengths so ya can tape up the engine harness without fear of any ends touching. Don't worry, your only going to use 2 of those ever again. Just the twisted pair tan tan/back high speed data wires, that's it.

Now besides a floor covered with black tape, you should have a separate transmission harness, and a fairly short chassis harness with 2 ECM connectors, 2 engine harness connectors, our X109 to APP, lead with alternator and MAF plugs, and our X2 power block connector with all the pink wires. You can now un-tape the wires from the X2 connector as we are going to chop that puppy off next.

No I didn't label all the wires on the X2 as Carl suggested.. I prefer to verify each by continuity at the ECM and GPR connectors once everything is cleaned up and ready to join our new fuse / relay block. But first timers should probably follow Carl's advice.... :D

Next we need to choose a new fuse / relay block to replacement for the OEM truck unit we just eleminated. While you could get by with a few inline fuse holders and wiring everything to the key switch, I like to use these clean little Attachment 570321.

Compact, water resistant, with backside wiring makes for a very clean looking install. I prefer the 5x35amp relay, 10 mini fuse combo. You can order these in several configurations for under $50 off Amazon or electronic hardware sites. However that doesn't include terminals, seals, wires, fuses, relays or a good crimp tool..


Attachment 570318

However,, you could just order a pre-wired, with all relays and fuses included, for about $120 off Ebay or Amazon. Likely saving you 2 or 3 hours, or more custom wring it. Your probably gonna need to add some length to the power and ignition wires on the chassis harness anyways. So do a search for Waterproof Universal Off Road Relay and Fuse Power Distribution and you'll find several options with 3' drop leads off each fuse and relay. Just make certain it has the rear mounted power studs option so you can install your own main power and ground leads with no splices.

Attachment 570319

Attachment 570320


Let's pick up at wiring one of these into our harness next week. I'm done. :readinghelp:

Attached is the Bussmann fuse / relay block I purchased off eBay for a build. Came pre-wired along with 35amp relays, fuses, barrel crimp connectors, and glue type heat shrink tubes. Everything ya need for a clean and easy install.

One thing to note, these pre-wired units come with all the relay ground terminals tied to single buss bar. Each relay is triggered by applying positive voltage over a low amperage signal wire. While the relays in our factory OEM fuse block were triggered by a grounding signal from the ECM.

In a truck, when you turn the key to run and start, the Body Control Module [BCM] receives a signal from the key security module over low speed data network. The BCM then sends a command over the high speed GMLAN network telling the ECM to ground the Power Train Relay [PTR] and start relay. Since we don't use a BCM in such stand alone setups, we can't tell the ECM to trigger the PTR or start relay. So we'll do this the old fashion way, with a positive voltage from our key to activate both relays. However, we you have to disable VATS in the ECM using EFIlive or other custom tuner software, or it will crank but not fire injectors. Little GM safety to make sure you can hotwire a truck under the hood and drive off... More on that later.

Now lets find all the Battery +, Ignition, and grounds our ECM and engine harness needs to make our engine crank and run. Then we'll transfer these circuits to our new Bussmann relay box.

First lets dig up a good diagram showing factory power flow schematics. While the documument I listed above are ok, I found that Autozone actually has the real GM schematics under their help pages. Just type in the year of your donor vehicle and you'll find everything you need.

In the attached photo you'll find all the power circuit numbers, fuse amperage ratings, and ECM pins for each. For this example we are using the LBZ/LMM model year. So there is two ECM connectors, X1 & X2.

At top we start with battery voltage in RED. Followed by every circuit connected to our factory PTR power train relay. All the circuit ID's I have outlined in ORANGE. And at the bottom, is our ECM pins which I have outlined in colors corisponding to wires we need to connect. At the very bottom of the image we have our 3 ground circuits required by the ECM, We'll tie all these grounds together in our modified harness.

If you look at the top orange block, you'll notice the PTR is placed before the fuses in each OEM circuit. Since our relay box is pre-wired, we'll have to change things up a bit and use more than one relay to keep things separated by amperage. While it might work to tie all the circuits together under a single relay, several of these circuits have different gauge and amperage ratings. So we don't want our heavy gauge injector power supply wires on the same circuit as our 18ga low amperage ECM circuits. Also we have a couple other ignition circuits not shown here that go to other parts of our engine harness. IE: MAF and GPCM.

With only the circuits highlighted above, the engine will start and run. But you might have notice your harness has a few extra Pink wire leads after you cut the OEM fuse block connector. That's because some sensor and modules are powered directly off the power train relay circuit, and not from the ECM. These include the MAF, Fuel Heater, and Glow Plug Control Module [GPCM].

The 5 pin MAF connector tees off directly from our chassis harness, along with a 2 pin alternator control circuit. Since our MAF requires constant 12 volts to power the hot film or hot wire used to calculate air flow, GM didn't power it from the ECM. MAF has it's own circuit (#1839) and fuse in case it shorts out, the engine will still run without it. So we'll follow this same rule. You can actually disable the MAF in custom tunes, but I prefer to keep it active because they seem to run better when it's supplying air flow data to ECM at lower RPM's.

Next we have our GPCM and Fuel heater (Circuit #2239) ignition powered wire. This one goes to main engine harness connector X107 on Pin #9. The glow plug control module gets main power from a large gauge "always hot" wire and fuse (125A) that connects to our alternator and starter hot leads. So circuit #2239 small gauge pink wire is only a control line. Most of the time a Duramax will operate fine without glow plugs being powered, so you might also skip this one. But for this build the owner plans to operate year round, so GPCM gets a fuse and relay in our new Bussmann box.

Last is our Serial Data Wake Up Circuits. Circled in BLUE in my schematics. These circuit"s" were originally powered by our now removed BCM, and used to tell all network modules like ECM and GPCM to "wake up" and listen for CANbus data. Takes some digging to trace the flow, but it's basically just a positive voltage signal to all networked modules when BCM requests communications. I first noticed this one in EFIlive Bench Harness Diagram. It can safely be joined with other low amperage ignition relay circuits.

So we have now isolated all the required hot circuits to power everything in this ECM and GPCM operating environment. Since we don't have a BCM, we are taking control of the start and powertrain relays by directly wiring them to our ignition switch signals. Then last we need to disable VATS in the tune, so the ECM doesn't care if we stole it...

Here is our list of circuit numbers, fuse amperage, and how I wired them up on the pre-wired Bussmann relay box. With this setup there is no extra relay slots, but 4 unused always hot fuse slots. I also wired in a spare lead on the 5 & 7 relay / fuse for low power ignition triggering other circuits, like a lift pump. While our starter solenoid could be powered straight from our ignition key, but I prefer to keep a relay inline a little closer to the starter. So Relay #9 Purple wire handles this duty.

440 - 10A - ECM - Battery Power

439 - 15A - ECM - Ignition Power

1339 - 15A - ECM - Ignition Power

1439 - 25A - ECM - Ignition Power

1839 - 15A - MAF - Ignition Power

2239 - GPCM / Fuel Heater - 15A - Ignition Power

5985 - Serial Data Wakup ECM - 15A - Ignition Power

HBO4 - Serial Data Wakup GPCM - 15A - Ignition Power

--

Fuse 1 - 15A - 439, 1339, 5985, HBO4

Fuse 2 - 10A - 440

Fuse 3 - 25A - 1439

Fuse 4 - Unused

Fuse 5 - 15A - 1839

Fuse 6 - Unused

Fuse 7 - 15A - 2239

Fuse 8 - Unused

Fuse 9 - 30A - Starter SOL

Fuse 10 - Unused

Are we up and running yet? any updates good or bad.

Which one?

Shipped the 540hp Duramax in video above to UT few weeks ago. Owner is working on mounts and coupling to a new Hamilton. The twin turbos are setting right here staring at me. Baja bildge is ready to drop them in. One engines is about ready bolt onto a dyno. But we had to sort out some registration issues before putting all the poop in one pile.. Almost got that cleaned up. Anyone do marine survey on a boats that aren't assembled?

But I haven't been totally slacking. Working on some LS swap related electronics most of this month. Even found a little time to help another member get his dusty old diesel boat wired up for testing last weekend. Well I slept under the dash mostly.. But there was no plush cockpit carpet. Luckily, someone left a couple soft black and blue PFD's tucked under there. Makes for a nice pillow also... :ernaehrung004:

Be back on something interesting next week, I promise.

Hey guys,I'm new here :)
I have a question about what lifters do you use in engines? He builds a 500-600HP engine. I would like to get a higher rpm. OEM lifters are heavy ... They are selling aftermarket puredieselpower.com lifters, but they are very expensive !!! Is it worth buying them?
thanks for the opinion

Stock Duramax lifters never seem to wear out or fail under reasonable use. Since they are a "solid" lifter, only parts that could fail is the roller tip needle bearings. And I've personally never seen one with a worn out roller. But did forget a full set outside in a bucket for a month, that trashed em..

Unless your looking to spin 6k R's, or run some crazy cam profile, I wouldn't spend the extra money on aftermarket lifters. Just clean em up and check that all the rollers are smooth. As you mentioned, there is almost no aftermarket options out there. So that right there should tell ya something.

-K

thanks for the info, I think there is only one company. And what do you think about the Harland Sharp Roller Rocker Arms. They are lightweight rollers but they are expensive ... would you invest in it? My engine has a long life, I used camshaft alternative firing, mahle pistons, fluiddamper, etc ....

Thanks,

Once again, only if trying to spin some serous RPM's. The common upgrade for Duramax rockers, replace the 5 rail bolts with ARP. Then spend the extra money on a decent set of push rods. You'll be good to a 1000hp...

Finally got some builds caught up to this thread. Been hard at work, helping several members get their marinized engines fired up this spring.

Here is the two I've been most waiting to hear run for over a year now. Both fired right up, and are being prepped for some time on the dyno next month. Maybe even bolt some turbos on em..

makes me tingle in my special place

Exhaust
 

Anymore information on setting up gauges or getting it into a chartplotter display?

Depending on the model year platform you chose, I have a gateway unit that converts GM CANbus data into N2k protocol for all chart plotters and VantageView gauges. Provides ya main gauges like temps, boost, rpm and oil pressure. It's a plug-N-play setup that only requires two wires from the engine to helm.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ed542b0479.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...73c222d277.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...d809c9bf0c.jpg

Getting Back On Tack

Just finished a month long dyno testing session on the pair of T-1000 marinised Duramax engines I posted video of above back in April. These engines are the conclusion of all the posts above. Goal being to see if these 403ci V8 engine can live happily making over two horsepower per cubic inch within a marine application, using the best hardware available today. This includes testing those beautiful Banks marine intakes, that I have yet to see pictured in a boat. I'm glad to say, the results look very promising.

Also have updates on cooling system options, along with some strange quarks we ran into during testing to share. For now here's some data and video from our testing sessions.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...574f6f1364.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...d69cc84c84.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...feb237830b.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...0425689b85.jpg