How to run a wideband?
 

On a boat with wet exhaust? Can you put a sandwhich plate of some kind between the manifold and riser and that will keep the water out of that area and it will get introduced downstream?

Have a couple of LSA blown LSs that will be floating and need tuned in the near future:evilb:

its a crapshoot, if it gets wet at all its done, killed many, we found only way to get to work was adding it the the header tube about 10" from head, manifolds who knows ?? every engine different come to revision

These will have oem cams from the zr1 so reversion should be minimum

I have had good Luck with running the innovate extenders to prolong the life of the sensor also.

I have a 5.3l in a ls running both stock and ls9 camshaft, both had horrible reversion issues. Just an FYI

Not sure how I'm going to fix it yet but I'm talking to a few cam suppliers and having a custom one made.

As far as 02's they work great for tuning but they wont last much over 10hrs. I'm running Holley HP efi on my set-up and I just turn closed loop off after I got everything dialed in. This is on a twin turbo LS on pump gas as well.

Depending on the exhaust manifold type the sandwich plate is common for traditional Merc style manifolds. WAGS engineering makes a piece as does LA BOAT Parts. For headers or other exhausts it would require fabrication to install an O2 bung in the driest section. The further from water introduction the better.

That is a blanket statement, and while true for your application, is not true for all. I've got 6 years and 200 hours out of my Innovate unit running full time.

Yes you can. Almost ten years since I have made mine. My ecu runs closed loop.

Jeff

You are 100 right but not all are this way, and most the ones I have been around don't last to long, it really is going to depend on the exhaust set-up and cam shaft, there is a lot better cam selection out there for BBC,SBC then there is for LS motors currently. I have talked to a handful of custom cam guys told them my application the issues I'm having and not one of them has a good solutions, before I go spending 400 on a cam and another 250 on a sensor I want to make dang sure my problem will be resolved.

I have the original sensor on my wb for the last 9 years and still going strong. I have ran e85 and methanol thru it as well. Leaded gas will kill a sensor fast.

Just curious where you are installing your sensor?

Why not install it in the vertical section of the riser and do your best to get your afr set up quickly. This would mean plugging the sensor bung with a blank til you get out away from idle territory. Then install it once the engine is warm, skip over the idle part of the tach and get your afr at cruise and high speeds. Then, since reversion is an idle speed phenomenon, back down the rpms from 1500 or 1800 to idle real quick and shut down the engine while the sensor is installed. If you are concerned about ruining the sensor, remove it once you have a tune or if you need to spend extended time at idle. Or continue to run it and see if you have a reverting setup. If you kill a $70 sensor it's better than ruining your entire engine. Wetting the sensor doesn't destroy the entire kit.
I am getting a wideband this winter and was thinking I''d remove it once tuned. But now I'm planning to try running it full time. I didn't go all out with my cam, for a marine small block it has a lot of lift, normal lobe separation and greater than stock duration. So I'll have to see what I get.

Lead gas will not kill all sensors. Some are set up for it.

ntk ?

Also water only kills them if they are powered up. If necessary you can leave the sensor off until you get above idle.

The Innovate sensor that comes with the MTX-L will take lead. I've done it and their documentation states "Wideband O2 Sensor is compatible with all fuel types (Leaded, Unleaded, Diesel, Methanol, E85, etc)". I believe its a Bosch unit.

If you had a stock cam in a 5.3 and had "reversion" issues something is very wrong. They have NO overlap you can literally make them idle at 350 rpm. The LS9 is a VERY poor choice of a cam for a low compression NA 5.3 though, early EVO and veryyyy late intake closing. Ive been doing custom cams for LSx engines for 13 years or so


what was your boat and exh setup?

Never said it was NA infact its twin turbo's, it currently has a LS9 cam that a buddy give it to me to try out, didn't care to much for it but that was this fall, My winter project is to research cams and choice the right one(wether it be custom or not) not a lot of info out there about LS marine engine and even less when you start adding boost to them.

If you have any suggestions I'm all ears, I was just stating the issues I had.

Here is a pic of my set-up, Its PCM manifolds with custom adapters that go from the manifolds to a T3 turbo housing then out the turbos to a waterjacketed 3" stainless pipe that mix the water and exhaust 13" past the turbos.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...pspakl9e5s.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps6mbhxd83.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...pstg1l0ed1.jpg

What are "extenders" can you give me a link?

Mine always get a calcium deposit from the moisture....

If its turbod thats even worse. The more backpressure it has the exponentially worse the problem would be compounded. What turbo exactly (turbine wheel etc) must be tiny turbines in T3 so I know backpressure has to be an issue. That silent choice setup closed at idle cant be helping much either for reversion with that back turn, and the manifold looks like it has hardly any runner length at all so thats killing all the tuning the long runner factory manifolds have designed in them which will cost every bit of 50 ft lbs of tq OUT of boost. Compounded in boost. And with that late intake valve closing point, the manifold would want to have that thing at 8500+ rpm.

Im sure you would be MUCH better off with a TBSS intake manifold, right cam, plumb discharge pipes into a A/W intercooler like the marine procharger kits use (like a racecar air/water) then into the TB. Tons better low midrange tq, less heat soak from manifold (your not only cooling off charge air with that setup your trying to cool engine block heat soak

The engine doesnt know its in a boat. All it knows is backpressure, manifold wave tuning and valvetrain dynamics and that setup doesnt look like it would make it very happy. Wait is your wideband between exh valve and turbine or after turbine?

That's the one I use. Mostly for insurance so to speak but it helps with water AND too much temp which can kill the sensors too.

Doesnt effect accuracy?

Not disagreeing with you at all but wouldn't more backpressure help the water not revert back up the pipe? Kind of act like a damper so to speek? Also I would have thought turbos would have help as well, but clearly I'm wrong on this part.

As far as the TBSS intake and mine heat soaking I'm not seeing any of that, maybe I'm passing enough water at idle for that not to happen, but I data log both Ampient and intake air temps and at idle I'm usually seeing intake temps about 5 degrees above lake temps(mid 70's) and when on boost I'm seeing no more then 10 degrees. I haven't seeing what intake temps are before the cooler only after. To me this seem pretty dang good. I actually ran the boat this fall when lake water temps were 40 degree. At 5700 rpm and 7.6psi of boost I was seeing 44 degree intake temps I don't see any car/truck getting those kind of intake temps on a turbo vehicle.

If I can get a cam that wont revert water I can change my after turbo exhaust to get rid of that sharp swept back that's why I'm all ears if you can recommended a better cam.

Have any recommendation on cam?????

We can take this to PM if you would like so we aren't mucking this thread up.

Mike

No. I've done back to back testing on the same motor and tune. Identical readings.

I couldn't tell from the pictures but where exactly are your O2 sensors located?

They are in the adapter block between the turbo and manifold,
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...psx1qykb5s.jpg

IMO you should move the sensor to the dp.

Normal I would but I was worried about revision and taking out the sensor, Its a NTK sensor which are (OK) to run before the turbo.

I'm really hoping to fix the revision issue with a cam change and mount the sensors after the turbo at the 12 o'clock position. (fingers crossed)

Are you sure reversion is killing your sensor? Does the turbine exhibit signs of water contact?

yes, I can actually take the 02 sensor out and see a fine mist coming out of the hole for it. Its that bad, I have changed timing and put a duck bill on the exhaust to help with it and it help a ton but I'm still getting a fine amount of revision.

Are you sure you don't have a leak in your adapter plate?

Yea pressure checked that, that was my first thought as well.

That's perfectly normal if there's any air leak, which you just created, in the exhaust and why a bad header gasket can kill a motor. If I pull the bung plug out of my header while it's running it will soak my hand in seconds, but when I kill the motor and remove the bung plug it's dry and sooty. I was freaked when I saw that much water come through but it's normal.

See learn something new every day, and now that someone said it, it makes sense.