Anyone watching Hot Rods Engine Masters series?
 

Some of it is pretty good and makes you think.

Basically 3 really smart engine guys, spending someone else’s money, w/access to free dyno time.

I tape all of them to catch what I may have missed.

Recent episodes include testing rod length ratio (different result than expected) and just watched one on oil pans.

This one blew me away.
Their mule was a single plane, single 4 carb’d, all alum GM based, 478 in (I think) making 814 HPs at 7400.

They started w/a traditional baffled sump, windage trayed Pan keeping the oil away from the crank and switched to an $1100 fab’d alum pan w/side valleys, trapped doors etc and gained 24 HP’s!

It also gained torque and HPs from 0 -7500!
As they said, a car would feel that.

In same episode they also referred to a dry sump episode that gained zero!

Though some of you guys building your own motors might enjoy this.

I like stories that make me think, and to question common wisdom, especially from some of the keyboard warriors and even the industry experts which all 3 of these guys are.

Steve Dulcich and the dyno operator Steve Brule’ (you guys may know him as he builds offshore motors) are especially sharp and like to experiment.

I have the motor trend subscription and have watched most of the engine masters episodes. I too enjoy watching there discoveries and what works/what doesn't.

I have MT-On Demand as well. Worth it for $2 a month. Almost wish the episodes on engine masters was a bit longer, dove into data a bit deeper, but love it when they pull up the 8 oxygen sensors. And they do a pretty good job of equalizing oil/coolant temps for comparisons. A number of episodes they have done are certainly applicable to the offshore crowd. The oil control episode especially and the big inch BBC intake shootout.

Have not yet but will certainly check it out. Tks

What was the result of the rod length test?

Next to nothing.

I need to watch it again because at the begging Dave Freiberger commented that they had to reduce stroke by I think .250” to make everything fit and he didn’t expand it.

Same for both rods etc?
1/4” diff in Stroke would surely show on the dyno and skew results if only one set had it.

Their final results w/dyno overlays showed near zero change.

Agreed in episode length too.

814 HP’s (840 ish after pan change) on a single 4 brl on their mule is damned impressive.

Mike Finnegan, also a Hot Rod employee is a jet boat guy and has a hi perf shop in Cal.

I think their episodes depth and quality are improving and wondering if they are expanding them.

Way cheaper to try parts (mostly free for air time) on a dyno than produce a road show in the real world.

Yes I’ve seen all that have been shown on the Motortrend channel. I also catch all the Hot Rod Garage, Roadkill Garage, Roadkill, Faster with Finnegan, and Junkyard Gold episodes aired. All entertaining AF to this guy. Love Finnegan’s Blasphemi ‘55 Chevy. As a kid having grown up watching Two Lane Blacktop I understand why he had to build it. Finnegan and Lucky both have good YouTube channels. I think Tony just launched his. Lucky is a hoot!

Finnegan moved to the Atlanta area a few years back due to family (and just lost his dad). His jet boat is insane. Freiberger is still in CA.

in spite of what a lot of keyboard cowboys claim, dry sump is more about oil control than power. on a road race car, rough water boat, drag car that lifts the front etc, it can be hard to control all the movement of the oil and not have a dip in pressure at times. that or if you have to run a shallow pan for ground clearance. trap doors etc only go so far in some things. I would think that the only power gain would be from windage as with a dry sump you can pull the oil before it drops on the crank but that would be minimal as it still takes power to turn a pump weather it is in the pan or bolted to the block. the other nice thing with dry sump is that you can feed the oil in most anywhere and split it off easier to things like spring oilers and such.
have watched some of the shows and yes some of the results are not what was expected or did better or worse than the internet experts so it is nice to see it in the real world in a repeatable setting. also like that they are willing to admit when things go wrong rather than just fluff it up for tv.

Yep

Just bought a stroked ZO6 powered ‘02 TransAm that I mistakenly thought was dry sumped.

Upon learning it was not, I educated myself on what dry sump is Vs what I thought.
Would do nothing for me.

But as you say, on a road race car or offshore boat....

What time and day does it come on? Sounds like it would be pretty cool to see.

Everyone should watch the header bash episode.

I used to cringe if I had to dent a header in a little for steering or something.... now I'm like "get the big hammer" lol

Its funny how Myths get passed down and seem to keep going just by word of mouth......when i was first getting into engines some 30yrs ago (jeez im gettin old) i remember all the engine shops telling me that my small block 350 should not be using a carb bigger then a 650...showed me some tables of CFM vs Cubic Inch etc and i just took it as gospel and never bothered to follow up on anything....have gone most of my life sizing carbs for the CI of the engine......then a while back i was watching Power Nation online and they did a SBC 305 dyno and started with a 400cfm carb...then moved to a 500cfm and motor picked up hp....then they moved to a 650 and motor picked up hp.......then up to a 750cfm carb and motor again picked up more hp.....even with a carb in the 900cfm range (not sure the exact size) it still picked up 1-2 more hp!!! The only thing that really suffered was the vacuum...it kept dropping......so if you had the motor in a street vehicle you wouldnt have any power brakes...and obviously the off the line performance would suffer if you stabbed the gas.....but none the less it surprised me to see!

Not sure as I have it set up to take all episodes, 1/2 of which being repeats.


Another informative episode was cam timing.
As in, altering its timing in relation to crank rotation.

It worked but opposite of expected.


Yrs ago I built a 440 Chrysler for a muscle car I had and I retarded the cam 4* to try and raise RPM range of that 440.
It pulled hard to 7k but was soft down low.
All as expected but more loss down low than I wanted.

Their tests showed retarding the cam added torque down low w/little effect higher up.
4* advanced showed net zero.

Their theory was that retarding the cam gave the cylinders more time to fill at lower RPMs and at higher RPM they didn’t have time to improve cylinder filling.

An interesting part of this series to me, the thinker, is, so much of what they conclude is based on theory Vs documentation.

As in, heres where and how much it changed and why “we think” it did.

I assume many results are based on that exact parts package and probably would change for us if we altered anything within.

My dad (retired engineer) told me when I started playing w/motors that if I change any part in the system, it effects everything else.

Engine wizard, Smokey Yunick used to agree w/that and said you can’t just change a cam, slap the motor on the dyno and make a determination.
You have to adapt existing tune to that cam.

If I was given a box of parts, a mule motor and all the free dyno time I wanted, I wouldn’t come out for days!

Im also a sucker for dyno sheets.
Ill buy all the snake oil you have if it shows on a dyno 🤓

Chrome air cleaners, valve covers, etc, etc..

Watch the air cleaner episode. It will make you want to put a salad bowl on top your carb. Lol

Great show, I`ve passed over it many times , but now that I watched a few episodes I`m hooked!
Thanx

Seeing this episode and the NIL difference rod ratio made, makes me want to do a standard length rod 4.25" stroke 540 when I redo my 502's. Can keep external balance flywheels and crap I have, but get extra stroke. I have found reasonably priced forged Scat crank and forged full-skirt pistons to do this combo. Plus the oil ring of piston would be fully above the pin, never cared for the short hockey puck pistons with oil ring through the pin like conventional strokers use.

I also am very intrigued about running solid rollers on hydraulic cam profiles. After dealing with Morel lifter issues on last built motor, and total crapshoot the market and expense is with good hydraulic rollers, I'd love to just put mid-grade pin oiling solids in and be done. Only question I have is do you run solid roller spring pressures or more that of a hydraulic roller?

There is an episode where they run solid lifters on a hydraulic cam.

Yes, Exactly why I made that statement, I've heard it done before but they didn't get into the spring pressures part of the equation.

Wouldn't that be awesome to build stuff that you've always wondered about, but didn't want to trash good parts for the giggles! These guys are awesome! Dulcich and Frieburger are funny together. Watch "Roadkill" where they get all excited about some POS they pull out of a field, get running, then take it on a road trip somewhere, and the carnage that follows. Greatness!

The episode where they see how much nitrous you can shove down the throat of a stock 305 is my favorite.

Wish I would have saw those oil pan and windage episodes couple years ago.
I was dealing with dropping pressures forever till I gave up and put on a external wet sump.

The episode with oil levels is pretty crazy too

Was was just going to post that.

Opposite of what we think and less is more.

We know that dyno tuning ain’t the same as in the boat/car tuning but it’ll get you 90% there plus you see so much more (like the oil pressure) w/its sensors/read outs.

I also like that they added a vacuum pump (the industry/keyboard wizards says we need one) on their pan test mule and gained zero.

When I build and tune a hot rod OB, I install a test wheel on the motor, grab my tools and head to an empty ramp.

I leave the boat strapped on the trailer and back it in just far enough to get the exhaust under water to give me back pressure to tune for idle where that fights us.

I set timing, starting, idle, acceleration, mid range and ball park top end this way.
You have all your tools, jets etc, setting right beside you.
A helper/tow pig operator helps but I’m normally solo.

Sometimes up/down the ramp 1/2 dozen times.

The savings in time/frustration is huge.

The episode where they experimented with valve lash was really interesting. They increased intake lash .010" and gained about 40hp, blew their mind. I was watching an episode of Engine Power where they were experimenting with air cleaners on a 408 Ford. They ended up with a 14" like I have and then added the filter top and gained another 6hp. I went online and bought a filter top for mine the next day. I need to look for an episode that experiments with rocker arm ratios. Thinking about going to 1.8's. My AFR's still flow strong to .700 and the 1.8 would get me to .660.

Next on my watch list.

Ive seen similar on the air cleaners.
They believe it has to do with straightening/directing the flow into the mouth of the carb.

And, me too on the rocker ratios.

Youd think if your motor could handle more cam this would do the same/similar.

Loved the Rod ratio episode, I’ve long believed people wasted far too much time contemplating it. If you are giving up stroke for rod length, that’s especially stupid.

Once upon time there was also a destroker vs stroker SBC 377 test, showed there was no difference.

I watch every week, very interesting stuff. In my area it's on Friday nights. (2) 1/2 hour shows starting at 8:00 PM. If anyone gets a chance YouTube Finnegins jet boat. It's insane.

I dont know why you guys all obsess over this stuff, according to all the 16 year olds all you have to do is put the stickers on your windows and you pick up 100+ horsepower.

Watched that one today , pretty nice increase from 1.5`s to 1.6`s on a 700hp engine.
MotorTrend has every episode , 4 seasons worth . I`ve been watching a few everyday , learn something new everyday.

NOSSSS, we need NOSSSS!!!!!

I’m waiting to see them swap pistons side to side like I did in my old Chrysler.

Im sure not all piston mfgs do this but back in the day of Mopars “Direct Connection” they said the wrist pins were offset in the pistons to side load them so they wouldn’t slap when cold.

They said if you swapped side to side, that cured it.

Crap, I've been doing it wrong. But I have a 2,000hp tool cabinet. LOL

My tv hasn't left the Motor Trend channel since the election last fall. Lots of good information and some pretty good humor on most of the show's over there. Some shows are almost infomercials but still worthwhile. Definitely better on my blood pressure and mental health than the constant 24/7 drone of covid, politics, conspiracies, etc. that occurs on most other tv channels these days.

Just watched one on changing firing order on changing firing order on a 572 Chevy.

At peak it showed +4 ft lbs and +2 hp’s.

Average through full pull was debatable.

Their conclusion was as my old man always told me, and Smokey Yunick also said, that if you change on part in the equation....., you must adapt the tune to it.

Take away for me was them thinking outside the box.
Who’d a thunk it?

Reminds me of a story I read about a team that set the record in land speed racing in the flat head class.
The flat heads horrible air flow is their main limiter of power.

So what did they do?
They reversed it!

As in, intake was now exhaust and exhaust was now intake!
Was a huge jump in power and tech rules legal.

You think you know motors pretty good and then you read that 😂

Being a huge Smoky Yunick fan, whose favorite thing was screwing with the heads of tech inspectors :-), his famous quote was, “it’s not with the rules say, it’s what they don’t say.”

He would figure something out, get away with it for one race, the tech inspectors would try to throw him out, then he would challenge them to show him in the rulebook which he knew they couldn’t.

They would change the rules for the next race!
He didn’t care he had won that battle :-)

In the early days of stock car racing where they were street-based cars they had a tech rule that said the camshaft had to be OEM lift and duration.

Smoky figured out that they did not specify timing events in relation to crankshaft position.

So he made his own camshaft altering the lobe centers which gave him substantial power, and won the race.

Tech inspectors protested, tore down the motor, and Smoky was the only team that they allowed to tear down his own motors while they observed.

A camshaft is very brittle and as he was handing the camshaft to the tech inspectors he pretended to trip and dropped the camshaft which broke into 16 individual lobes rolling in different directions!

He smiled at them and walked away!

I thought the one where they use solid rollers with tight lash on a hydraulic cam was very interesting. For me that's the way to go for future builds. They measured 58 grams difference and that didn't include oil in the hydraulics. Bushed solid lifters are certainly more durable and provide better valve train stability. The power gains are worth it alone.

May be apples to oranges, but still food for thought..

My engine builder back in the ATV racing days did a lot of flow bench and dyno testing, On a 250cc 2stroke motor, the clamp on pod/sock air cleaners clamped to the mouth of the carb vs a 6" tube/"velocity stack"

We were able to go down a couple jet sizes with the 6" tube running same egts and cleaner response. without the tube, air was still turbulent/tumbling as it went past the jets ,With the tube the airflow was better aligned and had stronger pull on fuel thru the jets and better atomization.

Yup, and Also, one carb per cylinder , that air cleaner tube became part of your intake runner.

I totally agree with this. Lifter needles going through an engine seems like the most common failure mode. Why not just eliminate it?