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shunter2005 06-27-2021 01:00 PM

Another Hardin SS Sea Pump Question
 
Have had continuing issues with alarm sounding when coming onto plane and at high speed. Not sure the exact pattern, but alarm stops as soon as the boat rolls over onto plane. Also wife says she hears the alarm steady when running at higher speeds. Cruising is fine. Replaced the OEM pump with Hardin SS pump previously. This condition has been persistent (but intermittent) ever since changing over the the SS pump. New impeller this year and the problem continues. Thinking about going back to the OEM pump as I never had this issue until I went with the SS pump. Working to find the problem, but I just can't help but think it could be this SS pump. Hoping to get the motor scanned in the next week or so.

I have read everything I can find here (and any other forums) and some say they have issues and some say the SS pump has no flow issues at all. I know some have the OEM pump with Hardin SS impeller housing, but has anyone gone the other way and kept the SS pump and gone back to the OEM plastic housing? Did it help any flow issues you might have had? Better yet, has anyone just R&R'd the SS pump with the old OEM Merc pump?

Just a caveat, but I am also checking the outdrive reservoir sensor for issues as well.

techman 06-27-2021 01:45 PM

Assuming a 496? Without knowing what the alarm is, you are throwing darts. What sort of gauges do you have, mechanical, Smartcraft? If this issue is really water pressure or water pressure causing temp alarms then you can dig into this a bit further. There is nothing wrong with the OEM pumps unless the brass gets deeply grooved and you see evidence of water pressure issues. Even with grooved pump housings, there are repair kits, even from Mercury, that replace the stock impeller with a smaller version with wear plates that eliminate the groove problems.




shunter2005 06-27-2021 02:08 PM

Sorry, should have elaborated a little more. 2001 502 mpi. Standard gauges. Seems to have decent exhaust flow as there is plenty of water out the exhaust and the risers are not overly warm. I do have a new water pressure gauge that I am going to install shortly to monitor water pressure in the future, but I just can't help but think that this SS pump could be the issue since it has only happened since I installed it. Never with the OEM pump. Also, the OEM pump is not the brass one, it has the plastic housing. I have a friend who is going scan it in the next few weeks and then maybe we can figure it all out. I am just frustrated with this issue.

F-2 Speedy 06-27-2021 02:31 PM

I think you answered your own question, put the OE pump back on and go boat..........I dont think the stock 502 mag mpi has water pressure gauge which means the ECM doesn't care unlike the 496, 525, it has 2 water temp sensors one for the ECM and the other for the temp gauge, low drive fluid will have a constant alarm tone.

shunter2005 06-27-2021 08:19 PM

I was thinking the same thing, but just wanted to know if anyone had kept the SS pump and went back to the OEM housing. Thanks

Griff 06-28-2021 02:42 AM

Very few things will set off the alarm on a 502mpi. Low oil pressure, high water temp and drive lube.
My guess is your drive lube float is acting up. Merc gear lube turns to pudding like sludge in the bottom of the drive lube reservoirs over time.

shunter2005 06-28-2021 02:48 AM

Deleted.

techman 06-28-2021 07:45 AM

Just curious, why did you install the Hardin pump to begin with?

shunter2005 06-28-2021 12:18 PM


Originally Posted by techman (Post 4795255)
Just curious, why did you install the Hardin pump to begin with?

As it turns out, that is a very good question. Several reasons initially. One, group deal from CPPerformance at a decent discount. Two, idea that no replacement of impeller housing anymore, so less maintenance. Three, it's much prettier than the fugly black pump from Merc. Thinking now, that I should have read all the threads about pump issues BEFORE I bought it, rather than after. Lol..... I had never had any issues with Hardin products in the past, so I had no reason not to buy it.

techman 06-28-2021 03:10 PM

I get it. I've been contemplating R&R my stock unit with the Hardin one too. But, I've managed to just re-engineer the stock pump to suit my needs. Engine bling is such a guy thing, eh? No one will see it, but you feel better knowing that pump is sparkling down there in the bilge!


shunter2005 06-28-2021 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by techman (Post 4795286)
I get it. I've been contemplating R&R my stock unit with the Hardin one too. But, I've managed to just re-engineer the stock pump to suit my needs. Engine bling is such a guy thing, eh? No one will see it, but you feel better knowing that pump is sparkling down there in the bilge!

Man needs bling!!!! You have to point it out to people, even down in the bilge... LOL... Just kidding. I don't know if I would do it again after all the stories I've heard. I have a friend that has one on his boat and he has talked to a big name place out in CA and they don't believe there is enough flow with the Hardin pump. I don't know if any of it is true or not. All I know is, I never had an alarm with the old OEM pump on it, but I have had several since I changed over to the SS pump. I am going to go back old school and revive my OEM pump and hopefully, this issue will go away. If between putting the old pump back on and cleaning the outdrive oil reservoir, I still have the problem, then I will really start worrying.

JaniH 06-28-2021 04:16 PM


Originally Posted by techman (Post 4795286)
I get it. I've been contemplating R&R my stock unit with the Hardin one too. But, I've managed to just re-engineer the stock pump to suit my needs. Engine bling is such a guy thing, eh? No one will see it, but you feel better knowing that pump is sparkling down there in the bilge!

What exactly you mean by re engineering the stock pump?

techman 06-28-2021 04:39 PM

On my 496 pumps, I deleted the quick drain back plate with a stock plastic ones with the replaceable wear plate. The quick drain pumps were a nice idea but my actuators eventually stop working and weren't something I used anyway. I always do a full antifreeze winterization on the fresh water side. Probably saved about 10 pounds too...those brass drain backplates were HEAVY!


ph1971 06-28-2021 07:19 PM

I have deja vu all over again. Did you buy a complete pump or did you just back half it? Are both wear plates in there? This pump is just like the merc. unit except that it’s not a plastic time bomb. I would go back through the installation and recheck everything. Maybe flush any lost impeller bits out of the cooler intake hose. Something very simple has been missed in every one of these “Hardin Pump” posts. Good luck man and I hope you don’t put that plastic POS back on your boat.

shunter2005 06-29-2021 04:38 AM


Originally Posted by ph1971 (Post 4795318)
I have deja vu all over again. Did you buy a complete pump or did you just back half it? Are both wear plates in there? This pump is just like the merc. unit except that itís not a plastic time bomb. I would go back through the installation and recheck everything. Maybe flush any lost impeller bits out of the cooler intake hose. Something very simple has been missed in every one of these ďHardin PumpĒ posts. Good luck man and I hope you donít put that plastic POS back on your boat.

So, true!! Yogi Berra quote. One of my faves is "If you see a fork in the road, take it." But I digress. Complete pump. I really won't know until I get it scanned and the new water pressure gauge installed. It seems that it pumps enough, but who knows. As stated, engine temp is perfect. Risers are not overly warm using the hand (forgot my infrared temp gun last time out). Looks like plenty of water out the exhaust. The pump was originally installed straight from Hardin. Strange, but that's when the BS started. New impeller this year. Not near enough hours, but time got me. Even at that, the impeller was perfect other than set to some extent. As simple as it was, about the only thing to go wrong is failure to install both plates or installing the impeller the wrong way. I triple checked it and then checked it again before buttoning it up.
As Griff and others said, it could be the drive oil reservoir sensor also. So, that will be my first little project before it gets scanned. Clean it out and re-install it. If that doesn't correct the problem, then it will get scanned. If it turns out to be a pump flow issue, then sad to say, but it'll be bye-bye time.

snapmorgan 06-29-2021 10:07 AM

I have used several of the Hardin pumps without issue. As Griff said. there isn't an alarm on a 502 for water pressure, just over temp. You stated that your temp is perfect. I seriously doubt that the new pump is causing your alarm.

Griff 06-29-2021 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by shunter2005 (Post 4795288)
Man needs bling!!!! You have to point it out to people, even down in the bilge... LOL... Just kidding. I don't know if I would do it again after all the stories I've heard. I have a friend that has one on his boat and he has talked to a big name place out in CA and they don't believe there is enough flow with the Hardin pump. I don't know if any of it is true or not. All I know is, I never had an alarm with the old OEM pump on it, but I have had several since I changed over to the SS pump. I am going to go back old school and revive my OEM pump and hopefully, this issue will go away. If between putting the old pump back on and cleaning the outdrive oil reservoir, I still have the problem, then I will really start worrying.

Before you start changing parts, figure out which sensor is setting off the alarm.

All the wires for the alarm system are tan and blue. The alarm sensors are separate from the gauge sensors. The only sensors are for low drive lube, low oil pressure and high water temp.
Pull the wire off each alarm sensor one at a time and see if the alarm quits. If it does not quit, then one of the tan and blue wires is grounding out somewhere. I had it happen once and a spliced wire had come apart and the wire was touching my intake manifold and grounding out. This completes the circuit and sets off the alarm.

shunter2005 06-29-2021 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by Griff (Post 4795440)
Before you start changing parts, figure out which sensor is setting off the alarm.

All the wires for the alarm system are tan and blue. The alarm sensors are separate from the gauge sensors. The only sensors are for low drive lube, low oil pressure and high water temp.
Pull the wire off each alarm sensor one at a time and see if the alarm quits. If it does not quit, then one of the tan and blue wires is grounding out somewhere. I had it happen once and a spliced wire had come apart and the wire was touching my intake manifold and grounding out. This completes the circuit and sets off the alarm.

I will check first. Thanks

Tractionless 06-30-2021 11:09 AM

1996 7.4LX MPI's here with Harden Impeller housings and Merc. impellers for several years without issue. Didn't see a need to go full pump so still have 1 25 yr. old OE Merc. unit and an aftermarket (not hardin) on the other engine.

ThisIsLivin 06-30-2021 02:11 PM

I have been running the Stainless housing for years and it works great. I'm pushing 700hp and no cooling issues at all even at extended wide open. I did go through it and ported it to improve flow and reduce turbulence. I have found my impellers last way longer with the stainless housing. I did modify my exhaust to increase flow. I also ported the water inlets on my Bravo drive and filled in the top 2 holes as my drive height is pretty high so I don't suck air at high speed.

Baja Rooster 07-01-2021 01:08 PM

My guess is your pump is fine and knocked a wire loose while putting it in.

My Hardin pump didnít work either and wondered why they included scrap metal in the package and apparently it pumps better with the wear plates installed:)

Non-Merc impellers cause issues as well but you may have a blockage. Once youíre on plane I believe the pickup pressure actually overrides the pump anyways and itís mostly just to function at lower speeds. I may be incorrect but thatís my current understanding.

shunter2005 07-02-2021 01:31 AM

Well, another fun day at the boat. Went up today to do some measuring for hose lengths for new hydraulic steering. While up there, I decided to take a look at the drive oil reservoir. Found that it really doesn't matter if the sensor is bad or not. The reservoir leaking at the bottom, so I am ordering a new one anyway. Hopefully, one of the three possibilities solved shortly. Hope to be on the water next week to check it, if this dang rainy forecast (and rain) ever stops.


shunter2005 10-23-2021 01:48 AM

Took me a while to get the boat out, but we took it out for a little run on Wednesday. I did install a new Merc drive reservoir since the old one was leaking. After checking it numerous times in the boat stall for leaks and finding none now, we got a chance to hit the water. Cruised around a while and then finally opened her up a couple of times. No alarms sounded at any time or speed. I think all of my worry about the Hardin SS pump wasn't really an issue after all. I want to say thanks to everyone who pitched in with ideas about the problem.

1 MAIDEN AMERICA 11-07-2021 10:13 AM

Glad you found the problem
Just FYI
I put the Hardin pumps on both my 575SCi's (cause they're pretty) and lost pressure so put the plastic one's back on.
I chamfered the edges of the impeller surface and replace the impeller every year even though it still looks fine. The housings are about 10 years old now. When I take them off at the end of the season there is still a wad of 2-4-C centered at the back of the housing where the shaft ends.
Why the lower pressure? The SS housing impeller cavity is smaller than the plastic housing. Less volume, less pressure. The 90* fitting vs curved hose, ID of both fittings and thread area are disrupting flow.
FS 2 SS housings, 2 straight and 2 90* SS 1.25" hose fittings for them


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