TRS Replacement options
 

For the past two seasons I have been "rebuilding" a 1988 Sonic 36ss. One of the last of its kind, hand laid "Heavy!!!" hull, about 9000+ lbs. I have completely Re-gelcoated the boat including "blueprinting" the bottom. Time to repower :D.
Much to my surprise the trs drives have held up to the blown 454's at approx 550-575 hp, but i'm looking at about 100+ hp increase for next year and I'm pretty sure thats gonna disinigrate them LOL. I've already talked to earl at huber to beef up the transmissions...and I know all about the Konrad drives...but it seems to me for the cost of a set of konrads, it opens up a world of other options and what I want is the most performance for the buck... I'm looking for any suggestions, and perhaps on how my boat might react to surface drives?? Thanks in advance :)

Konrads don't have to be all that expensive. If your gimbals are good you can do a very simple bellhousing down conversion. Here is a Pantera we did. I don't think anything else will come close in price for this type of drive.

We can swap TRS to Konrads in hours. Any other conversion will burn many labor dollars.

You're right lofty, for all around drivability the Konrads are the way to go. I spoke with the Konrad guys at shooters a while back and priced it all out. But as far as the performance, I've gott'n a lot of mixed feedback. Yes they will out perform a trs, but what about #3,5 speedmasters or an arneson #6?? these are all equvilently priced options "within a few thousand"?? Yes it would be a lot easier just to bolt on the konrads to the trs gimble, But the engines and trans are already coming out, so changing the gimble isn't as scary of an idea to me. My problem is I don't have much knowledge in the drives dept, other than helping a lot of friends replace there blown up bravo's lol. The boat is nicely rigged and has a notched transom, so I guess I just digg'n for some input on other options.

You'll have to fill the notch to run a surface drive, that's a given. The Konrad will run faster than any SSM drive. Also, SSMIII's are getting a little hard to find parts for, the Konrad is still in production. As you said, changing the gimbal is no big deal, just more money and if the TRS is still good then why not save $3k?

One big item that is often overlooked is props. If you go with Konrads you can run readily available and inexpensive props. SSM and your looking at some money and you wont be able to borrow for testing as easily as you will with a standard prop.

Any number drive except for the 6 is going to have parts availability issues in time.

For your application the konrad drive option is hands down the best and easiest way to go,no labor intense re-rigging,reliable and warranty to 800hp,affordable and easy to get props,you will be raising x-dimension aprox 1.5 or more with shortie,works better with modern day props,also in the old days(before konrad/trs replacement available)we converted some trs boats to 3 speedmasters always lost some speed,all of the trs boats we converted to konrads either were a little faster or about the same.As far as surface drives go boat needs a lot of rocker and light bow to work well,if not no bow lift loss of speed and handling.The surfacr drives work great on the right hull that has been tuned from the boat builder to work with them.

Thanks for all the feedback guys...Looks Like a set of konrads will be the way to go :D What about the ace package lofty..extention boxes so on, Good for my application?

Konrad conversion is the way to go least costly. We have
just done a 38 Cig. Take a look at it under Drives and Lower
Units, and Konrad conversion by Doller offshore Marine.
Have any questions or need some advice, call us at:
954 237 0332

Sonic36,
The Ace set-up will allow you to move your engines back toward the transom. The simpleest coneversion is to just install the drives with or without the Konrad transom assembly. Heres a photo of our Sonic 386 with the Ace set-up that Doller Offshore did for me two year ago.

Here's a larger photo.

NJSONIC what were your final speed numbers with the conversion from Bravo's to the Ace? I seem to recall that you lost 3 MPH but thought that with props you would get that back? Thanks for any real world info.

Jon

I'm not sure how anyone can say that konrads are the least expensive way to go vs a ssm drive ?? The price that I got on just drives, not labor was about $12,500 each drive on konrads. Labor out of the pic, I can buy rebuilt/new 3A's from several people currently for less than that. If you already have the gimbles set up and everyone talks about "its just a helmet swap" then labor is really the same and not the issue. What am I missing here guys ??

This reply doesn't address the Konrad / SSM conversion...but this is my experience with a Konrad / TRS swap.

I invested in Konrads to replace my old TRS drives this past summer in my 1989 Cafe Racer. Spent a total of 35k, including removing engines, rebuilding trannys, replacing the stuff under the engines that you just can't get to with the engines in place, and new props. In had all of this done at a respectable performance shop, MDG Performance in Md.
They have alot of experience with Konrad conversions and actually had already done a few on Cafe Racers before. This was the most logical way to go for me. I am now confident about the driveline. And...no more TRS worries.

The Konrad conversion is said to be somewhat cumbersome without pulling the engines. Yes it can be done. But, I really didn't want to take any shortcuts. I'm glad I had it done this way. I'm pushing close to 600 hp per side & the TRS drives would not hold up. Having fresh tranny rebuilds was anothe bonus.

Yes it was alot of money, but I think well spent. Will I ever recoupe all of the investment ? Probably not, especially with todays market. I'm quite confident though that the Konrads vs.TRS will help when selling, if I ever decide to unload it in the future.

But for now, who wants a short boating season. I have had too many in the past. I can't afford a late model CIG. so I just have to make the best of what I have.

Just my opinion.

Tommy

Tommy,

Did you get a chance this season to see how they compare speed and handling wise with the TRS drives? Are you running the same props?

Nice looking boat.

Jammin',

Went from Hydromotive Quad 4 25 pitch to Bravo 4-blade 26 pitch, as recommended by the installer. Handles similar at cruising speeds. Just need more tab to get it up on plane. The Konrads don't sit so deep as the TRS. Don't really have much time on them...it was the end of the season and I still was going through the recommended break in procedure. Not sure of the top end speed yet. Have to wait til' spring. If necessary....Konrad makes a spacer to adjust the X-dimension. I'll have more time to play with it then.

Tommy

Replaced my Trs's with Konrads in an afternoon with simple tools. No big deal. Didn't pull the motors, just a bolt up. Talk with Konrad or Biggus (Kurt Flachbart) on the phone, he will talk you though the process. Customer service was great. Add value to your boat. Gained some MPH with the setup. They are a little shorter in the water, more streamlined and I was able to spin the motors up to 5400 rpm and also instead of running Mirage Pluses because I wanted slip to save my TRS's. I now run 4 blade bravos. By the way the boat is a flat deck mistress.

Go with Konrads. Off set the cost by selling the TRS's.

You are not missing anything except for the talk about parts getting harder to find. Of course they have been saying that TRS parts are impossible and I have yet to run into an issue.

Audiofn,
Yes I lost some speed I havn't done anything with the props yet. I will be getting the correct props for this summer. The test props (stock Maximus)I ran showed approx 3mph slower at WOT with full load on board. I will post true numbers when I get the props that will be labbed for my boat.