Boxes and lowers?
 

Would neutral stand off boxes and -2 short lowers be the same or similar to -3 boxes and standard lowers?

The Imco boxes are the neutral and -3" you are referring to.
When using the -3" you raise your motor by 3" and the X dimision is shorted by 3". It allows you to use the stock holes in the transom.
Using the neutral with a -2" would raise your X by 2". If you mounted the box in the stock location.
In order to match the -3" box you would have to move the motor and box up by 1".
Any time you move the motor, there are alot of things that have to change. So avoiding that is a good thing. Although the -2" isnt quite as high (not getting as much advantage) as the -3", it is a whole lot simpler to just put the box on and install the Shortie lower.
Would you go faster with the -3", maybe? But it would be a lot of work to do all that and have to install 1" spacer to get you back to where you would have been with the simple setup.

One thing I like to do is look for others that have done the swap and see what works on your hull, before committing to more of a major project than is needed..

Hope this helps.
Dick

I would get stelling boxes ,you dont have to play with the motor, put it all the way up and use a 2" shorty.
If the X-dimension is to high now ,.......you can lower the box 1" or 2" back down.
+ you are running a driveshaft with a bearing carier which is much more reliable then the torsion shaft on the imco aplication.:rolleyes:

Thats a good point daredevil, I forgot to mention the Stellings, it is adjustable, but drive shaft angle is limited.
And I have been running an Imco torsional shaft for 9 yrs without any problems.
I just figured rbr was talking about the Imco..

I had the stellings on my Powerplay, since the adjestment is only 1" up ,level ,or 1" down ,the ange for the driveshaft is not a problem at all. Thats wy a 2" shorty comes in play .
So its either 3" up 2" or 1" up.
I ran my PP with twin 650HP and about 620torque.
Never a problem. A little more greasing to do ,but very,very handy.
You can change engine without taking the drive of ,you can lower the X-dimension by just losening 8 bolts and they look more like they are made for the bravo then the IMCO's.
Plus you keep the engines as far down as you can, which is a good thing in a V-bottom !
With the IMCO i have seen that torsionshaft rip of the gimbal many times. Put it depends on what HP and luck, but who whants to press his luck ?!
Think about how limited your driveshaft on a truck is !
And here you only go 1" either way .

I have seen guys try to leave the motor down low and lift the box to the highest and then have problems with too much angle on the drive shaft. Not that I have experienced it, but just hear say in the area. The Stellings is a good box, dont get me wrong. I dont care for the lack of the rubber coupler, but in most cases it isnt a problem. I am running some where close to 800hp, I feel, no dyno papers to prove it. But I opted for the Imco because of the shock value to the drive.
I havent seen any Imco's fail, so your are more experienced than I in that respect. I just havent had a problem as of yet..
The adjustability of the Stellings is great! and would work in rbr's case. I was just lending my experience to the mix..

I have been told to go with imco neutrals and 2" shorties so I guess that is the only way to obtain that.

Where i seen it fail is on a 27foot activator raceboat it happend twice in one season . With a stock 525 and a very light boat.
I have never seen a stelling setup fail !?
Ofcorse you need to make shure the oil level is right in the bearing carier and also grease the driveshaft , but you should do that on any thing that has oil or greasefittings !
I quess just some people forget. LOL
But i also would say that it is the best setup for him.
once he goes with IMCO neutral and a 2" shorty well then you can go down but never up!
With the stelings like i said the angle should not be a problem at all. Driveshaft is about 15" long and 1" up or down on that length is nothing.
You got to realiese that with the (what ever drive you have)as soon as you trim or steer that angle is much more on that U-joint from the drive then it would ever be on that driveshaft.
And the driveshaft u-joints are greasable the ones on the drives are mostly not. THINK ABOUT IT !?:eek:
I loved my stellings. Actually i checked it again and it has a built in 1" raise from center hole of the 3 holes. So level would be top hole and 2" raise would be bottom hole + 2" shorty would give you 4" higher X-dimension !!!!! COOL.
With the Imco ,..... i dont know it just seems that they are not worth it. I mean the boxes theyr Bravo stuff is great ,but i think they be better of drilling some more holes in the boxes and come up with a carier. Lot easyer to play around with.

You know that you then only raised your X-dimension by 1" .
Because for every 12" you go back you need to automaticly go up 1" anyways.
So you 2" shorty will not be enuff.
I hope you will not find out the expensive way and then buy STELLINGS .
Just trying to help !:cool:

PS.: I wish someone would had helped me with all my problems i had in the past ,but the only one who did was my wallet.
Think about it !:rolleyes:

What i was trying to do with -3 boxes is use stock lowers and not need the lowers.

that is the most in-expensive way to do it. It just may be more work in the engine compartment to re-rig everything to come up that 3". Also do you have enough clearance in the engine compartment to come up 3" without the air cleaners hitting ?
Don

Good points just thinking of options.

Just bolt whatevers cheaper back there and Ill adjust it with my killdozer

That might work!

What i am saying ,is even with a -3 IMCO box you actually only went up 2" !
Plus the rerigg with the engine(s) is not worth it because now you change your center of gravity ,which then you may need a diffrent X-dimension ?!
A used stelling box is around 1500 + driveshaft 2-400 cupler for flywheel 100 , so at the most you are looking at 2K for box setup + shorty used 1500-2500 .
So around 4 K and be done with it.
Motor mount change , IMCO box ,torsionshaft to puton bravo + messing up the boathandling and start over with dialing in,maybe now need a shorty or a spacer !?
Is that worth it ???????:eek:
If you go with stellings , i think it makes it alot easyer and probable cheaper in the end, because you can play around with your X-dim. without messing with the Motor(s) .
Its a fact ! ,sorry !:rolleyes:

this is what i did with my AVS and picked up about 6 to 7mph at cruise and 5mph on top end also the handling difference was greatly improved like driving a who different boat

ScarabJ
How long is your Scarab? I have a 98 38' Scarab non-stepped hull with motors putting out about 700 HP. I put on Imco 2" shorties because the X-Dimension was really low on this boat. It definitely helped out. I am thinking about adding stand off boxes this winter and going up another 1 to 2 inches. That will depend on handling and speed of course.

1999 33 avs

I have a non-stepped hull...also NO notched transom. My 1990 Active Thunder was originally built with TRS drives. I wanted to upgrade/modify the boat to Bravo One XR drives and while I was at it I thought I would add the Stellings extension boxes. I contacted the boat manufacturer for suggestions and they told me to mount the boxes as high as I could (just below the rub rail).

The centerline of the propshaft nut sits about 3.5-4" below the bottom the hull (directly in front of the drive) at nuetral trim----this is with a completely stock length (no nosecone) Merc Bravo One lower gear case. I used a 4-bladed 32" Bravo prop.

I wanted to experiment with some IMCO -2" shorty lowers. I didn't like it at first because the 4-bladed props were extremely poor in getting the boat on plane until I bought some Hydro P5X 30" 5-bladed props and solved the problem. However, my boat is now about 5mph or so slower in the midrange cruising speeds, but I gained about 5-7mph on the top end. The really nice thing about my current set-up is that I love how the boat handles and rides on top of the water much better. It drives and rides like a totally different boat on the positive side.

Perhaps if I try some 32" 5-blades vs the 30's I now have it may give all of my midrange cruising speeds back which I would really like---but not sure if my boat can spin a 32" 5-blade at an RPM level I would like to see.

Lotta good info here about boxes. Daredevil certainly knows his stuff, and makes a good case for the Stellings.

When I upgraded two years ago, I looked at all the options to get a box and a raised x on my single. ITS+shorty, Stellings, and Imco -3" box were the options. I chose the latter based on the argument that keeping the coupler and trasmitting through a torsional shaft was good for the drive (but can´t verify if it helps significantly).

So I bit the bullet and went for the Imco, keeping to a stock DWP XR drive, as I had been told that in my speed range (75 -80 mph) the standard drive would be faster than anything more exotic (shorty, bullet nosed lower, low water pickup).

The 3" raised motor has not in any way had a negative effect on the handling. In fact the boat is night and day better than the stock version, and ran 80 mph with 525 EFi power. Incidently the motor has actually moved back a tad, as it moved 3" up the 12° angled transom.
In my opinion, one of the speed bringing aspects of a box, is that the c.of g. is moved rearward, whilst the drive acts like a third leg stabilising the boat as the hull start to air out.

Another advantage is great access to the motor and bilge area.

The Imco box has generous hatches on both sides and plenty of space inside for installation and checking transom assembly connections.

Before I added the IMCO -2" shorties, my boat seemed a little too stern heavy...not sure if it is because of the weight of the extension boxes or not, but it got to be a little unstable (chine walk) at about 80+mph and I needed the K-planes to stablize the boat. However, applying the K-planes killed the speed.

Once the IMCO -2" shorties were added it gave the boat a different angle of attack or angle of trim and it made the boat sit on top of the water much better---and seemed to have changed the center of gravity so to speak. The ride and handling is a night and day difference.

The propshaft nut centerline sits about 1.5-2" below the boat now so, she throws a little bit of a rooster tail. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewc98ti5gN0

There are so few general rules about boxes, drives and props, and even those have exceptions. My boat ran more stable over crosswakes with the standard drive and 4 blades than it does with the 2" shorty and 5 blades, but it is a trade off against other qualities.

My propshaft is now at 2 1/2" below the pad bottom.

The way the boat will fly straight and level in heavy chop is just amazing and the acceleration that the 5 blade delivers just pulls a smile every time!

RBR - If you are out this weekend I will wave you down. I tried the same route as you by using the Stellings so I had the adjustability. The IMCO boxes with IMCO shorties are too bad, you can get shorties cases and install your bravo stuff. The Stellings, although adjustable are a BIG pain in the ass. it is way easier to fool with IMCO spacer plates. You can probably buy mine (IMCO Lowers) in a week... I am putting the bravo lowers back on today.

RBR - If you are out this weekend I will wave you down. I tried the same route as you by using the Stellings so I had the adjustability. The IMCO boxes with IMCO shorties are too bad, you can get shorties cases and install your bravo stuff. The Stellings, although adjustable are a BIG pain in the ass. it is way easier to fool with IMCO spacer plates. You can probably buy mine (IMCO Lowers) in a week... I am putting the bravo lowers back on today.

I will be out probably on Sunday.

Tried all kinds of set up's with a 1995 35 fountain went with Imco nutral boxes so you dont move the motor or tail pipe angle or all kinds of other stuff [hatch height] raising your center of gravity all this costs .Then go with Imco drives with the raised cavitation plates you can then go with 3 inch shorties. Imco drives are 3 piece you can change the middle section to [or order them with] a raised cavtation plate. this will keep you from having to change your engine compartment. Never had any problems 750 hp + 102 mph handled great with 12 inch set back. I wen't to a new boat if you need Imco's with raised cavtation plates or just the mids I mat be able to help. Good luck.

Stellings are crap! you lose the drive coupler and inherit a load of broken XR drive issues. Get out the checkbook $$

That may be so for some people, but for me I have had the Stellings boxes for 7 years or so and no broken/busted drives. Perhaps it's because of my mild powered naturally aspirated 565cid engines (about 670lbs of torque) and/or how I drive the boat---I don't think I have been too hard on the drives in how I operate the boat.

RBR - I took the boxes off. You want first oppty to buy them?

$hit - I meant the IMCO lowers. Do you want them?

Not at this time. Spending a pile on the house this month.

are they -2 shorties?? if so pm me how much you want... thanks james

You looking to sell the whole package or will you part with the cases w/o internals????

Thats what they are - cases w/o internals. I have the case and the IMCO downshaft. 10 hours max. PM me if you are interested.

They are -2

Keith I got some good pictures of the three Bajas yesterday.

Cool. Thanks - Are they posted on coctailcove.com?

I am still sorting through about 600 pics from Sunday.

So, are you done for the season or are you out till it is too cold to bear?

Although its horrible to wish for, if we catch a couple of the hurricanes, the lake will be in pretty good shape.