What drive to use?
 

I have recently bought a 2004 Daytona with 2 496 HO's and Bravo drives. The boat will run mid 90's with gas and 2 people and I have got 98mph almost empty of fuel and on a cool day, but compared to my other single engine boats (a Nordic and a 234 Edge Eliminator) the boat does not pull hard in midrange and is slow out of the hole. It has IMCO set back boxes, but appears to be stock other than that. I first thought I would just drop a couple of Whipple’s on this and be easy on the drives, but after some research, felt this was just a waste of money. I am now building two new 632 Dart motors and hope for 750hp each and am very confused from all these posts as to which way to go for drives. Everything from Konrads, IMCO, Arneson, Teague, BMax, be easy of stock, and just don't drive the boat much at all seem to be the consensus here. Does anybody have any advice for my boat/power combo that will produce a fairly rugged ride. I do not mind going through the drives once a year or even keeping a spare drive at the lake for emergencies, but I hate being towed in. Any solid advice. Also, any idea of price on the recommending drives. Between these two engines, the anticipated cost of the drives and rigging, I almost wish I had bought a 30’ with # 6 drives and big power out of the box, instead of my plan of beefing up a stock power 28’. Thanks for any help you can offer!

Imco SCX uppers and SC lowers should handle that HP. Or go with your plan B and buy a #6 boat

My Teague XR is rated for around 900hp im putting about 600hp through it no problems, if you hammer the throttle out of the hole i think you could tear up any drive. Then you will have some guys putting 1000hp on a bravo 1 and not having any problems.

What Drive to Use
 

I had considered both the IMCO or the Teague drives, but I read many negative comments about both here in these forums. One long thread focused on the IMCO drive causing a loss of top end speed in the tune of 7-8 mph and the Teague drive not holding up. I don't mean to sound stupid, but unless I am WOT my boat just about won't plane. Do I need a complete new drive or can I beef up the upper or lower. Also, I read a lot about being easy on a drive. What exactly does everyone mean? Thanks

B-Max
 

Is the Bmax a good strong drive and is the company back in good shape?

DLJ,
You won't need full throttle to get on plane with your new motors.
Peak torque is what kills drives probably around 4K rpm's
Being easy on applying throttle coming on plane and during acceleration will be easier on the gears.
If you get air and the props break loose if you don't throttle back you have just toasted your bravo.
Increasing the amount of blades and increasing pitch will be harder on drives.
The Teague drive is better than an XR.
It seems initially the SCX with the SC lower looks to be a winner. The SCX lower is not usuable to most due to hydrodynamic issues.
The BMax looks better all the time now with the new owners.
Conrad is a good product but you must use a transmission which will require rerigging.
Arneson seems awesome will require a lot of rerigging.
Cost of all these is high. Consider overall value of the boat when considering this, you will not get this back on sale if you need to.
Teague, call and ask. IMCO SCX/sc 12K, Helmet 800, B-Max 15K,
Conrad more than these plus rigging, $$$, Arnesons, don't know accurately but 20K plus rigging would be close.
If I were you I would keep your boat as is for baseline testing. Put your new power in, up your pitch in whatever your using by 4 or 6 and be easy on it. BBlades has a demo prop program. See how handles and planes. Call Eliminator and ask what set up works on the 30. Then change to the drive of your choice most likely SCX or Bmax. With the data you have you will be able to better predict what size lower to use. You will need to spend about 30K plus to get to a higher level of reliablility that unfortunately may not be bulletproof............. The first time you feel the power you will think it is worth it. Eric

DLJ what prop are you useing, wot out of the hole will just about bust any drive, more sooner than later. If you have a 3 blade that could be the problem

Eric, if you are advising him to spend $30K on something and not be reliable, you just blew the cost of the Arnesons and you are still behind on speed and handling.

Just something to think of.

I want to meet just one guy who has 1000 going through a Bravo who doesn't have issues. The only way that is possible is a guy who just installed a 1000 hp engine in his boat & hasn't ran it yet.

From what I gather & I have yet to be quoted an actual Bravo to Arneson conversion price. Arneson would be my choice. The Imco SCX looked to be a great alternative at 1st, but it has it's issues that are becoming more & more every day as more make it to market.

I can't speak about the condition of the company. Don't know. My B-max's at the end of my fourth season now with what looks like no wear and no problems. I run it behind a 720 hp 727 tq Pro Charged and injected 468. It is in a 96 Velocity 260. I run mid 80's about half loaded. Better light.
I would say I lost a bit of MPH not sure how much because I freshened and beefed it up a bit about the same time. I have thought of going with a shorty.
Rated to 14000lb 950 HP and TQ last I looked. About a $15,000 bolt on investment and worth every dime. I could break a Bravo by hitting the trim button.

You said you dont like to be towed in! That's why I run it.

A lot of the factors that go into changing a drive, depend on the boat. Some hulls like the change more than others. Eric makes alot of good points..
I have a friend with the SCX/SCX on a 36' Apache that is actually going faster than with the XR's. He has 500hrs on them and at 400hrs the lower gears started to pit, so he swapped them side to side and has at least another 100hrs. His boat weights around 9000lbs. 502's with vortec, 825hp. He does go wot on take off at times. He has put that 500hrs on the drives in the last two seasons.
But that is a V hull and the boat loved the -2" SCX lower with 5 blade prop. It isnt an Daytona. The long thread that was refered to talks about a deck boat that needs the drive moved up to make it work right and because of space limitations, can't be done. Check prices on the gears for the Bmax and SCX. So Rik you are saying that less than $30k will buy two Arneson conversion kits?
All have their pros and cons.
But 632" motors will make some serious torque.. The Bravo's wont do it, unless you dont use the torque. And we all enjoy torque!! :) Like Eric says, once you feel it.. you wont go back!

Dick

Thanks for all info from everyone. This is dlj, but I wanted to upgrade to a paying member and did not know how to change my screen name, so I set up new account. When I first bought this boat a month ago, I had figured I would simply send my drives down to Bravo Shop and have them beefed up and replace the 496’s with good big cube motors . My 234 Edge Eliminator has a 500 hp big block with a 300hp nitrous kit and my stock Bravo twisted an input shaft one time and broke some gears another, so I sent it to the Brave Shop in Fla. and he rebuilt and made it stronger and that drive has been good for a while and I have to believe that I am hard on a drive. I sometimes will use the nitrous button while coming on plane (the boat just jumps on a plane) and sometimes I will hit the button right after it is on a plane. My engine builder tells me this is real bad, but I don't go boating to save any money, but rather have some fun and the nitrous is a real kick in the ass thrill ride. I bought 2 brand new stock Bravos out of Fla. just in case I hurt one. I just want the 28' Daytona to plane out in a reasonable amount of time. If I don't really give it some gas, it seems like it takes about 30 seconds before it planes and even when it rolls over, the props start to slip if you not in the throttle and if you back off, the boat will fall off a plane and you have to start over. The guy down in Fla. at the brokerage house I bought the boat from gave me a demo ride and he had an interesting method to plane. We would get going a few mph and then he simply pushed the throttles all in. The boat held the motors back in rpm until it starts to plane then the props brook loose and the engines shot up to 5300 rpm and the boat took off. I mentioned this to my engine builder and he told me this was real bad not only on the drives, but also the props due to the slippage and cavitations. Mr. Gadjets, one of my other boats is a Nordic with a blown 509 that will literally blow itself out of the water and take off so hard, it will rip the shirt off my passenger's back and I do love it. But it is only 19' long and has a jet drive that can take all I got. Driving this Daytona at the high 90's is a blast and it cuts through waves like no other boat I own, but it like driving a big motor home unit it picks up speed. Then the last 5 mph come on slow and you covered a good bit of water by the time it hits 98 to 100 and this is almost out of gas with no wife or dog on board. I really want the new power, but I am real concerned about the drives. I am attaching a picture of what I have if it helps. I was surprised to read all the negatives about the IMCO and Teague drives. It seems like both may have more problems than I expected. Thanks again for all the help. Dan

No Dick, what I am saying if this guy spends $30K on the band aid Bravo stuff from people out there, and then it breaks, he has then at that point exceeded the cost of the Arnesons which will not break.

I know everyone wants to follow the leader and stick with what they know regardless if they break all the time or not but there is a proven more reliable answer.

I think your plaining problem is directly related to your "X" dimension. If you want the speed with little power you have to raise the drive up, aka surface drive. On the flip side, the propellers do not have sufficient diameter and bite to get the boat on plane at this higher X dimension so you are in a quagmire situation whereby what is good for one characteristic is bad for another.

Also, what no one has mentioned to you yet with all their examples is they are not running the Bravo at the surface like your Eliminator is setup to do. Surfacing the Bravo's kills them plain and simple so the more speed you seek from them by getting them out of the water is at the same time accelerating their demise.

Rik, I gather you are connected to Arneson or work for them. I am new here and don't know anyone. Please tell me more about these drives. I guess are the strongest out there and they would make a good fit for my application. They of course look very nice and I have the utmost respect for their inventor. I hate to sound cheap, but how much would two of these be installed on my boat and do you know someone on the east coast that could handle the job? I do not know if my current shop could install, but I will check. Your web site makes it sound like it is a snap, but is it really? While cost is not the most important factor, between the new motors, the rigging and the drives, this project has gotten almost laughably out of control. I am thinking I started with the wrong canvas to paint this picture. All of these upgrades are almost equal the cost of the boat and with unexpected cost overruns, could exceed the initial outlay for this weekend getaway project. I had no idea the drives would be such a problem, as I have been twisting up Bravo's on my Eliminator Edge boat for years and except for the occasional "rocks in a can sound" coming from the back of the boat, it has always got me back to the dock and that motor puts out just over 800hp. I watched it dyno at 825hp and I am not easy on it. That boat is a modified V/cat that does not have the high drive X dimension as the Daytona. The reason the Bmax seemed good to me was the luck I had with the old Bravo Shop, but it sound like that guy imploded his rep here and went out of business. I am really looking for some impartial advice and I understand everybody has a difference of opinion, but this stuff is really confusing. Any help offered is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dan

I think the big question here is.....since when was a 28 Daytona considered a drag boat. Cats DO NOT jump onto plane. Period.
You can break a load of parts trying to make them do it.

What would be a reasonable amount of time to plane? It takes so long know, I worry about running over a small boat/jet ski that cuts in front of me as I lumber on out of the no wake zone. I can't see anything for a good while. More than anything, I think what I miss is that mid range take off and I would like to see 105mph or so full of gas and with some people riding with me. Maybe I am just looking for something my cat will not give. This is my first true cat, as I mentioned before, one of my other Eliminators is a modified v-hull, which seems to be the best of both words. It packs air up around 80+ and is a smooth fast ride, but turns on a dime and planes pretty quick. I love the blower boat, and I will never forget the first day I stabbed the gas on that and the way it took off. It was worth every penny I had invested in it. There is no better feeling on the water and I want some of that here. My engine builder and I discussed it felt the big cubic inch motors without the blowers were the most dependable way to fly this boat. I guess I feel like the fighter pilot fresh out of the military who now has to fly big commercial airliners. They go fast, but they are not as much fun getting there. Dan