converter box for nmea 2000
 

Anybody know of a converter box to allow holley hp ecu to communicate with nmea 2000? I would like to tie a chartplotter network into engine monitoring in order to take advantage of the weather resistant properties of marine electronics.

Holley is talking about releasing their own display that is weather resistant but would not give any timeline when talking with them at Sema.

What model Holley unit? Does it have a CAN connection?

If it uses SAE J1939 communication protocol, then there is a couple boxes that will work.

It's the holly hp unit. Not sure what it speaks

Pretty sure the hp box uses holleys own brand of protocol. The Dominator has two can outputs, but I still don't think it can be used to get to a nmea 2000 or J1939 output . Boost Power or Haxby Speed would probably have the best idea if there were a way to make it work. I think when the new display comes out it will have a nmea2000 output.

According to the manual, it has CANbus capabilities.

http://www.holley.com/data/TechServi...R10555rev3.pdf

4.9 CANbus (CAN)
All harnesses have a CANbus communications connector.
This is used to communicate with CANbus devices,such as the Avenger Handheld tuning module or the 5.7” Touch Screen LCD.
If these devices or any other CANbus device is not being used, there is no need to do anything with this connector.

A24 – CAN Lo (Pin B)
A32 – CAN Hi (Pin A)

I also found an unrelated forum post from 2010 where someone was looking to do this same NMEA conversion. They reportedly contacted holley and was told those CANbus connections were for the devices listed above and nothing else. So, I'll do a bit more searching for ya and see if I can find where anyone has successfully used them for other purposes.

Personally I would just run a twisted wire pair to those pins and go find an old OBD-II connector from a junk car. Then add the hot and ground wires to that OBD connector and you'll have a port that any laptop adapter or scan tool can listen on. CAN is basically like the Ethernet for automotive industry, your not gonna hurt anything plugging in... IF they are using a standard communication protocol [which I'm guessing they do] then you'd be able to see RPM TPS and other standard SAE pid outputs with any tool. That would be the deciding factor on how to move forward with a NMEA / J1939 adapter plan.

These are the HP EFI plug in CANbus cable part numbers.

1 foot extension – Part Number 15663NOS
4 foot extension – Part Number 15665NOS
8 foot extension – Part Number 15666NOS
12 foot extension – Part Number 15644NOS

There is a mini USB port that can plug into a laptop also on the ecu, so it would be easy enough with a tablet. I was hoping though of having the better characteristics of the chart plotter and the ability to tie everything together.
Thanks for looking into this.

Maybe one of these might work

http://www.actisense.com/products/nmea-2000/emu1.html

http://www.nolandeng.com/rs11.php

Yeah I had the same thoughts, and seems easiest (cheapest too) to use, Windows chart software on a Tablet and also run the Holley software for the engine. I was thinking that you could run in split screen and use the program "eventghost" to allow the tablet to turn on and off with ignition and open and run those programs automatically. I was thinking of using the "polar navy" nav software, it has gauges that can be overlaid on the chart. (compass, speed etc) the gauges look similar to the holley "racepak" like gauge screen.(digital over blue-green back ground) Some of the newer tablets like the lumia 2520 have 650+ nits brightness. For the price of an analog to nmea2000 converter you could have the whole package.

Yeah those are the best two options I'm thinking also.

The units Pstorti listed were my first thought, but then your doubling up on sensors thus adding to cost. There is several units out now that will do NMEA or J1939 digital conversion from analog sensors pretty cheap if ya shop around. But all that time and wiring, is better suited for retro fitting a carb engine with digital dash.

The J1939 to NMEA 2000 converters are only like $100 if you have devices speaking J1939 on a networks and just need to convert to NMEA for the marine chart plotter. But starting from scratch, maybe letting a computer become a chart plotter is the better plan. I still want to hook into those CANbus leads on a Holley and see what those units speak, but don't know anyone close with one. Online searching is not yielding any positive results.

Hopefully one of our member EFI tuners with more experience will chime in. Or as a Holley EFI customer, you could call tech support and pester them for the CANbus protocol details... Ask for a specific ECU Engineer, cause it's not gonna be the guy answering tech calls or selling parts. The question is, do they use a SAE communication protocol, and what CAN devices have they tested with??

Holley's tech line is not always the best but I have had engineers call me back. On that note they are super tight lipped about anything that "might" work, They will generally tell you if it is in the pipe line though. Basically because then tech lines go nuts, they don't give dates or comment on projects that are too far out. Moore Racecraft, did most of the beta testing of the holley efi systems and they seem to know more about the systems than most, or even Holley's tech line. Iirc Derek is lead tech at Holley he might have some insight, also Yellowbullet.com has lots of Holley efi users. (I'd check it for you but its in the race car and its all apart, and apparently Minnesota is actually colder than Mars right now, lol)

An update on this----I have spoken to 3 different Holley Tech guys ---not one even remotely helpful. The last one actually said that I picked the wrong EFI system. I was resigned to the fact of running a mini marine PC and a monitor which should be fairly easy---not cheap mind you, but I believe would be a pretty powerful system. From engine monitoring to chart plotter to music and video capabilities...
I asked Holley if I would be able to run both engines on one screen and one computer --- the answer was a rude No --- when I asked to talk or have them email a software tech to see if it was possible or had been done before their answer was " We don't have time for that and we are not interested in the marine market"

The only other company that they will work with is Racepack, and they were not helpful either. At this point I'd like to rip the Holley Ecu's off my engines....lol
I either have to use the new Holley dash (7.5" display), or the Racepack display according to them.

Take a step back and work through the previous options posted.

So long as those ECU's speak "CAN", they can be linked up to provide data on one screen. That could be 1PC running two CAN/USB converters. Or a chart plotter running 2 x J1939 to N2k converters. First you need to determine what the PIDs or PGN data looks like on that CANbus connection.

There is what's called SAE Pids, typically RPM, Temp, Oil pressure, TPS, MAP and such that are common to 99% of all ECU's. Or it could be all manufacture specific PIDs, which are not same hex decimal code and won't translate to NMEA 2000 near as easy. Only way to tell for certain is jack into the diagnostic plug and run some free OBDII PC software that listens to the data stream. Will tell ya pretty quickly what ya have to work with.

Too bad I didn't know you were still working on this. I was in your area just 48 hours ago, and have the tools on my laptop to sort that out quickly.

-K

Thanks for the words -- I wasn't too thrilled with Holley yesterday... and it was getting on my nerves.
Yes it is really too bad if you were that close -- I'd pay you to mess with it and try to figure it out as it is not in my normal arena. I'm going to place each motor side by side on the floor and power them up on the laptop to see what happens.

Dave

The next batch of the new waterproof dashes are supposed to be available on March 17th. They're really nice, and feature enough programmable virtual switches to do almost everything on the boat. When communicating with the ecu via laptop, the software has to confirm that you are using the same Global folder/file as what is being used on the ecu, because you can make real time changes. In order to view two engines on one laptop, the laptop would have to be able to do a split screen,and run the Holley software on both screens independently, as well as communicate with the correct USB port for that side of the screen and engine. If someone could pay a code writer to figure out what the deal is with Holley's CAN language (it's not J1939), then a simple converter could be made to NMEA, and I bet you'd be able to sell enough of them to offset the cost. In reality though, two of the digital dashes don't take up a ton of space, and they look really nice, with lots of different configurable layouts. Another option might be to contact FJO, who make the Holley ecu, and see if they have any insight.They're in Winnipeg.

That's helpful info right there... I'll try to reach out to FJO and see what I can find. Building a N2k gateway is something I can probably help with, if we can figure out Holley's language choice. Good to know it's "not" SAE J1939, saves delsol time. But I'd still swing by and jack into one if it's able to run on the engine stand. So shoot me a message if you get one wired up.

Haven't we had this conversation once before Haxby :readinghelp:

If you're interested in doing this, I can send you an ecu, harness, a few sensors so it's got something to read, and a little handheld tuner/display that plugs into the CAN line.

Thanks for the offer. Soon as I get this bluetooth adapter project finished I'd be happy to take on this one. Would prefer to get with delsol or someone running that system so I can capture some LIVE data going across the bus.

alex is that the new ones that they unveiled at SEMA or new ones again since SEMA?

Kid -- just let me know when it works for you, and what you need me to do....

Ok guys, the Winnipeg contact panned out. Found one of the orgional developers who tossed me a bone...

Yes it's CAN, but proprietary data packets. So nothing out there on the market is going to "Read" it by default that isn't built for it. However, I scored a definition file which defines the sensor data sets in Hex, we can convert that to match N2k sets same as other gateways do. Waiting for a reply about twin ECU's on same bus, but at worse would take twin gateways.

:nicethread:

kid. awesome news

let me know if i can do anything

On the typical HEFI wiring harness, there is a two wire connector for "CAN network links" to displays or other devices. Below is a pic of an extension cable. Which plug is on the engine harness, male or female?

https://rspimages.holley.com/15663nos.jpg?width=583

I heard back on my question regarding multiple ECUs on the same CAN network. Should work, according to the standard network design. However...
Thinking this over in my head, even though there is no reason 2 HEFI units couldn't share a single physical CAN-bus and N2k gateway, most twin engine boats run dual 12v systems. CAN networks are low voltage, and N2k gateways should be "optically isolated" from other power sources by design. So I don't particularly like having a "bridge" between both ECU's on separated 12v power systems unless they share a common ground.. The bus becomes a possible path for a power spike to wipe out both ECU's. Even though one of our two 12v systems is ultimately powering the plotter and N2k network.

So am thinking we should use 2 NEMA gateways, one per engine. Sound correct? I believe that is the proper routing design shown under some N2k documentation I've read. Anything I am missing here?

Hope to get started on a "pair" of prototypes within two week for ya delsol

Awesome! It's a female connector on the harness side

Haxby, do you have any customers or contacts in the Detroit Mi area with a running HEFI setup I can possibly work with one day soon. I have the piece of hardware I believe will fit the bill to convert the CAN packets from Holley EFI to either OBD-II or N2k PGN formats we need. However the the developer lives just north of Detroit, about 5hrs away from me. MCU programing is not my gig. So If I can find a running engine closer to him, he'd probably meet with me to whip out the hard stuff in a single day. Saving a bunch of time..

PS your pm box is full.

-K

following

HEFI Gateway Updates
 

Prototype PCB's are done and ready to start software testing.
Some notable board components:

• Power input range DC: approx. 8-28v
• 2 galvanic isolated CAN bus transceivers - As per NMEA hardware standards
• Bluetooth LE modem (switchable) - IOS and Android compatible for soft gauges or diagnostics
• User flash-able USB port - firmware updates
• Switchable network termination resistors
• Switchable Port/Starboard engine outputs (DIP switch)

http://www.altfuelsgroup.org/picture...FI-N2k-BLE.jpg

The PCB case is IP67 waterproof rated, contains standard N2k network drop cable on one side, HEFI CAN plug and extra power leads on the other. This unit can be powered off the network or directly wired into the engine harness.
http://www.altfuelsgroup.org/picture..._casing1-1.jpg

Hope to complete testing with Delsol within the next two weeks. Once operation is confirmed, we'll take orders for the production run. Nice thing about this design is the firmware can be updated to work with other CANbus ECU's like MEFI units or standard automotive ECU's. The output format can also be setup to do J1939 or other protocols. On the Bluetooth side, we plan to go with Torque for the soft gauges since it works well with IOS and Android devices.

Fantastic Ken.

Looking forward to this.

Excellent News!

Hardware and software is done.. Try picking something tougher next time... :cool-smiley-027:

Tested yesterday with "simulated" Holley EFI data running through twin engine gateways into an actual NMEA 2000 equipped Simrad plotter. Along with your basic engine data, we also displayed throttle position, fuel flow meters, plus drive trim and tab position utilizing the spare HEFI auxiliary inputs. Probably room left for a couple more inputs if needed. Now onto wiring up something that floats, delsol :-)

Oh yeah >> Paging HaxbySpeed!! >> Get in touch please.

http://www.altfuelsgroup.org/picture...528_123140.jpg

http://www.altfuelsgroup.org/picture...528_124005.jpg

http://www.altfuelsgroup.org/picture...528_123917.jpg

Sign me up! This is awesome.

Noland units work great and have awesome customer support.

Dirty money-- the noland units I'm sure work very well for converting analog senders over to NMEA 2000, I am utilizing the Holley ECU that is already monitoring all of the critical engine functions and trying to get it to communicate with a chartplotter...

Kid Turbo -- Ken -- has spearheaded this project and come up with a fantastic gateway to make this all possible. He knows his stuff! We will be doing final testing on the system next week...can't say thanks enough.

Anyone running a Holley EFI system should look into this:flag:

Yes I've also heard nothing but good things about both Noland and Actisense units. No matter what engine setup you have, those will get the critical engine data into a digital display. But for guys like Delsol with custom high HP EFI builds, that would require double sensors and wiring on each engine.

Since about every OEM and aftermarket ECU on the market today offers "CAN" options, this gateway only requires two wires per engine. The problem has been the multitude of languages these ECU's speak. No one wants to develop a gateway that only work for a single model ECU, ain't worth the time. Industrial engines and Gensets all share a common SAE protocol / language, J1939. The whole NMEA2k standard was actually built around that protocol. Then you have Merc, who felt it was best to go it alone. Opening up a market to convert their stuff also.

So who's left out of the party? Aftermarket systems like Holley, FAST, MSD, and all the automotive OBD-II compliant units. Everything popular with the hobbyist or professional engine builders like Haxby, Chief, Sterling and others. I ran into similar issues with my Duramax conversions, as have guys dropping the new GM LS versions or V10 Viper engines into a boat. All great engine platforms, never specifically intended to be marinised.

Our little gateway project was designed to make such communication road blocks a plug-N-play install to modern plotters and marine gauges. It's no cheap knock off project box. Custom PCB with top shelf electronics and network isolation features as called for in N2k standards. Just easily firmware flashable, bringing plenty of other interesting uses to mind. First we'll see how these Holley prototypes work out. Thanks to guys like Delsol and Haxby for backing the development.

-K

I came across this post while searching on google how to get data out of Holley's CANbus. Never thought it would pop up with a site I am already a member of.

Anyway, are you selling these boards and for how much? What ARM chip are you using? I have a couple ARM platforms here on my desk along with some Arduino AVR's. I'm not exactly needing the nmea output but more so for datalogging.

We just completed the first HEFI batch and shipped some out last week.

http://altfuelsgroup.org/pictures/al...EFI-N2k-GW.jpg

Changed the board slightly, making the BLE modem optional since most new plotters include BT capabilities. I do have one of those prototype boards pictured above with the BT available if you just need wireless data logging off the Holley side.

Processor is the M4 series, and the board can be powered from either network cable. Now that HEFI is done, I've started working on a MegaSquirt and custom GMLAN version to cover stuff like the new LS and Duramax. PM me your contact details and I'll see what we can come up with.

-K

Kidturbo
Very interested in your product, working on a Holley EFI, Whipple 4.5L set up for my 43 Nortech and I'm in OH.
Wish I would have known about your project sooner, I would have offered up my boat for testing.
Contact me when you get a chance

Just sent ya an email with my contact #.

That would have definitely saved some mileage. Delsol has a sweet build underway and was great to work with. However he lives on the far side of the lake..

I also spoke with Haxby last week. He's logged some real world hours on a couple different boats now. Reports everything on the Holley setup seems to work as we designed it. So I've moved fwd this month with a high speed GMLAN version to support GM Duramax and the LS E67 ECM. Those E67 units could offer up some interesting tuning options over the current MEFI version, Soon as that's done, onto the Megaquirt version.

So my new boat has some custom Eddie Young motors that have a standard MEFI 4 computer. Could I utilized these on mine? I really want to go to a glass dash and have been searching for something like this. Thank you guys in advance.

New CANbus Gateway
 

After selling the last of our original CAN-2-CAN gateways last summer, I had to decide if it was worth while to build more. Small niche market with a very low profit margin for time to develop. The majority of that first run went to Holley EFI users on here. As time permitted I worked towards adding new ECM communication protocols like J1939, AEM, GMLAN and MEFI 5 along with some others. Seems like what ever new protocol I was working on at the moment, someone called looking for something different. Then next thing I know, all the gateways were gone. Thanks everyone..

After some pondering and prodding by a couple members who were late to the party, I broke down and ordered another run of boards. We modified this new design a bit, ditched the drop cables, and mounted the M12-5 connectors directly to the PCB and case. Should makes them a bit easier to mount, and offers new ability to unplug the board and take it to a desk for easy programing with PC. Which is the second major upgrade, ability to add, change, or program your own custom CANbus protocols or ARBID sets.

My embedded electronics guru buddy is still working on the PC configuration software, but 50 new units are on their way to me today. The preconfigured HEFI and other existing protocols I've re-engineered will be ready to ship next week. Soon as he finishes the software, they should be capable of translating between ANY modern CANbus protocols that exist today. GM, Ford, Chrysler, MB, ect, or any aftermarket ECM setup. So help a brother out and pass the word before my wife discovers the missing $$$$ I dropped on this endeavor, again...

:party-smiley-004:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]564714[/ATTACH]

Looking good Ken!

I'm going to be doing some testing with the new ES raymarine MFD this week. I'll give you as shout later in the week.

Dave

BTW-- you mentioned earlier about the ability to datalog from the holley through these units, how does that work? is there a way to store/download on the converters?

Dave